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New 61mp Sony a7R IV
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: New 61mp Sony a7R IV Reply with quote

The camera is scheduled for release tomorrow. Amazing. Be sure to check out the hi-res photos in the article below. If you're into counting your subject's facial pores, this is the camera for you!

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/sony-alpha-a7r-mark-iv-full-size-sample-photos-33790

It seems to me that, at this extreme resolution, this machine is really gonna challenge the resolution capabilities of most lenses.

I guess one side benefit of the release of this beast is the price of the a7R III will drop and may even approach "reasonable."


PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: New 61mp Sony a7R IV Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
The camera is scheduled for release tomorrow. Amazing. Be sure to check out the hi-res photos in the article below. If you're into counting your subject's facial pores, this is the camera for you!

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/sony-alpha-a7r-mark-iv-full-size-sample-photos-33790

It seems to me that, at this extreme resolution, this machine is really gonna challenge the resolution capabilities of most lenses.

I guess one side benefit of the release of this beast is the price of the a7R III will drop and may even approach "reasonable."


Yeah, GOTTA HAVE IT, as I always print my images Times-Square size!! Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: New 61mp Sony a7R IV Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
If you're into counting your subject's facial pores, this is the camera for you!
I think the true resolution-freaks already use the 150MP Phase One system that's been available for a while already, or otherwise some sort of technical camera Smile
If we're looking into products from mass-market manufactures, the Fuji 100MP is due very soon.

Myself, I'm happy with what I have, everything is below 20MP. I hope that not every single new camera will have really high resolutions, as this brings several practical issues (slower processing among others) without presenting me any real-world advantage.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm . . . maybe the processing speed will be slower on your computer when you're working on such huge images, but in the specs, Sony is claiming a 10 frame per second frame rate with this beastie, which seems extraordinary to me, considering its capacity.

To me, the one big advantage to shooting with a very high-res system is the ability to crop a relatively small portion of an image, with the crop still having a healthy amount of resolution left. I've even enjoyed this capability with my rather lightweight 24.3mp sensor. I can't even imagine what it would be like with a 61mp one -- or a 100mp one, for that matter.

I think the chief selling point to these mass market devices, such as the Sony and Fuji, is they don't cost as much as a nice new car -- some $50k for a Phase One is a pretty tough nut to crack for most folks. But if you're willing to be very patient, time has a way of leveling things. I recall the early Kodak digital cameras that were built on Nikon and Canon SLR chassis. They had like 2mp or so, which was a huge number when they first became available over some 20 years ago. They sold for huge amounts -- like over $20k. Outfits like National Geographic were buying them. Nowadays they occasionally show up on the used market and typically fetch a few hundred dollars. So, who knows? Maybe 20 years from now, you can pick up a used Phase One 150mp model for a few hundred bucks.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Hmm . . . maybe the processing speed will be slower on your computer when you're working on such huge images, but in the specs, Sony is claiming a 10 frame per second frame rate with this beastie, which seems extraordinary to me, considering its capacity.
Yes I was indeed referring to post-processing.




cooltouch wrote:
I think the chief selling point to these mass market devices, such as the Sony and Fuji, is they don't cost as much as a nice new car -- some $50k for a Phase One is a pretty tough nut to crack for most folks. But if you're willing to be very patient, time has a way of leveling things. I recall the early Kodak digital cameras that were built on Nikon and Canon SLR chassis. They had like 2mp or so, which was a huge number when they first became available over some 20 years ago. They sold for huge amounts -- like over $20k. Outfits like National Geographic were buying them. Nowadays they occasionally show up on the used market and typically fetch a few hundred dollars. So, who knows? Maybe 20 years from now, you can pick up a used Phase One 150mp model for a few hundred bucks.
Yes electronics have a tendency to drop in price, and tech will trickle down to more modest products. However, the disadvantage is that there are already no new <20MP (interchangeable lens) cameras made (to my knowledge) and the rise in processing power of PCs has slowed down substantially in recent years.

Besides, if we look at prices, I don't consider the 3-4k euro that the new Sony costs as cheap, or even in the price-range of a typical consumer camera. This kind of price is firmly in Leica-territory. However, the resale value of most Sonys rapidly follows the Titanic.... And then there's the UI, which has not been seriously addressed over the years (although maybe it was on this new model?), probably as Sony can afford to focus on market share (quantity) above anything else at this stage in its product-release cycle.

Clearly, it's not a camera aimed at me, but I understand the appeal it can have on others Cool


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
...

To me, the one big advantage to shooting with a very high-res system is the ability to crop a relatively small portion of an image, with the crop still having a healthy amount of resolution left. I've even enjoyed this capability with my rather lightweight 24.3mp sensor. I can't even imagine what it would be like with a 61mp one -- or a 100mp one, for that matter.

....


Michael, I quite doubt that cropping in a lot will deliver a useful sharp image at this resolution. Any little defocus or shake will be amplified by the cropping factor, as will be diffration effects. Not sure which highest resolution lenses you plan on using for that, but I have serious doubts that this aim could be achieved...


PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klaus, I would agree with your observations for most "normal" photos. But I do think that if I'm shooting with one of my best lenses, and having the camera/lens combination mounted on a sturdy tripod, that high quality crops could be achieved. I have 100% crops of some old photos I took shooting film -- like Kodachrome -- that held up remarkably well. So it seems that it should at least be possible with the proper setup.

Sjak, regarding prices, you know, when I got into photography back in the early 80s, that was during a time in which low camera prices were commonplace -- although it didn't last. But I also recall looking at ads from the 50s and 60s for mid-grade camera gear that was quite expensive -- easily amounting to the average worker's monthly salary. So photography has, for much of its history, been an expensive hobby. Thus the higher end new gear is probably on par with historical prices.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At 61MP, even with the 5-stop IBIS, wouldn't you really need to use a tripod all the time to get the best out of the sensor?
Also, at that "resolution" I wonder how the pixel density will affect noise performance.

I liked the comment about printing at Times Sq proportions. Joking aside, I wonder if this camera is aimed at professipnals (who need large prints or super detail), or gear freaks who have to have the highest pixel count. I'll admit I bought the Canon 5DSr but sold it. Having to use the tripod all the time was tedious. I'm happily back to 24MP.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

l9magen wrote:
At 61MP, even with the 5-stop IBIS, wouldn't you really need to use a tripod all the time to get the best out of the sensor?

Sounds like an overkill.

l9magen wrote:
Also, at that "resolution" I wonder how the pixel density will affect noise performance.

Very positively.
I've heard numerous times about "big fat noiseless pixels" myth, yet the consumer market evidence is lacking.
Quite the contrary: so far every new high-Mpix sensor showed better high-iso performance when picture size was normalized to size equal to the low-Mpix sensor.