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Thorsten Overgaard on the Leica Monochrome
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Thorsten Overgaard on the Leica Monochrome Reply with quote

http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M-Monochrom-Henri-Digital-Rangefinder-Camera-black-and-white-sensor-page-21.html


My opinion - I haven't shot with the Monochrome but the in-camera b&w as well as the DNG processed with Silver EFEX pro are so awesome that I don't know if the Monochrome will be "better" by "a wide margin"


PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For sure you lose a lot of flexibility with a monochrome sensor: you are not able to edit the colour balance in post production.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

certainly true, but i think maybe the lack of 'color processing' both enhances sharpness/detail and allows base iso of the camera to be a stop faster.

what i didnt understand is why he says you must always shoot a lens wide open or one is wasting a good lens! he totaly lost me there.

orio: i just saw you have an x100! how do you like it? i am still in love with mine. i took it to a new years eve parade at night and used 'continuous af' for the first time (ive had it for 18 months!) and it worked brilliantly. i will post some results soon.
tony


PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you need to have it Hari, then the reasons why are easy to find - afterwards Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
I'm sure you need to have it Hari, then the reasons why are easy to find - afterwards Wink


Laughing no Klaus, i'd rather spend a few euros and buy film for my hungry Contax AX and MM lenses

Only problem is - i don't know of any good labs for processing the negs

I gave one roll to some foto shop in Heidelberg and one roll to a Media Markt and they both returned absolute rubbish

I'm probably going to ask a kind forum member to do the development for me in return for remuneration

Wrt new cameras - I'm a businessman with my money. I will pay and i will invest but i need to see the value.

The M9 was one of a kind. Steep cost but on par with most FF DSLR's and it's given me some incredible images in a very portable size. That there are lenses dating back to the 50's usable without any additional tinkering made it a very scalable system for me at the beginning and damn some of these old lenses are truly incredible

The new M or the monochrome make no sense to me. I'd rather buy a FF EVIL camera whenever that comes out and spend the rest of the money on good lenses or a vacation to put the gear to use. One can never have enough good lenses or enough vacation, right?

Silver EFEX pro seems to do just what i want. Even if the monochrome is THE b&w camera to have, If you don't know what you're missing, you're not missing it Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly can relate to such reasoning Wink

The only companies I know of (still in existence) around you are:

60000

Foto & Net GmbH
Stiftstr. 36 und An der Hauptwache 7, 60313 Frankfurt, Tel. 069 / 13376816,
Website: www.foto-ffm.de
Profi-Service im Amateurlabor. Filmentwicklung C 41 Kleinbild und Rollfilm.

Fotofachlabor Kratz
Willlemerstr. 13, 60594 Frankfurt, Tel. 069 / 61 30 40
Website: www.fotolabor-kratz.de
Filmentwicklung von Minox, 35mm, Roll- und Planfilm bis 4x5 inch. Handvergrerungen auf PE-Papier bis 50 x 60 cm.
Handvergrerungen auf Baryt-Papier bis 40 x 50 cm. Bildtonung. Reproduktionen. Qualittsfarbbilder (Analog und Digital)


70000

Photo Studio 13
Heilbronner Str. 1, 70771 Leinfelden-Echterdingen, Tel. 0711 / 790 84-0
Website: www.photostudio13.de
Filmentwicklung E6, C41 und S/W von Kleinbild bis 8x10 inch (Hngemaschinen), auch AgfaScala, C-Prints bis 127 cm Breite,
S/W Baryt und PE bis 127 x 300 cm, Ilfochrome.
(Zweigstelle in der Olgastr. 80, 70182 Stuttgart fr Annahme von Auftrgen)

Die Entwicklung
Volmarstr. 16, 70794 Filderstadt, Tel. 0711/ 700 98 00, Website: www.die-entwicklung.de
S/W-Filmentwicklung Kleinbild bis 8x10 inch, S/W-Abzge PE und Baryt bis 50x60 cm.

Prolab Fotofachlabor Stuttgart
Rotebhlplatz 37, 70178 Stuttgart, Tel. 0711 / 669 75-0, Website: www.prolab.de
Filmentwicklung E6, C41 und S/W von Kleinbild bis 8x10 inch. C-Prints vom Negativ bis 125 cm Breite.

Prolab Fotofachlabor Karlsruhe
Adlerstr. 31, 76133 Karlsruhe , Tel. 0721 / 37 95 52 o. 35 87 39, Website: www.prolab.de
Filmentwicklung E6, C41 und S/W von Kleinbild bis 8x10 inch. Keine Analog-Prints.

Fachcolor Bhler
Weierlenstr. 3, 79108 Freiburg, Tel. 0761 / 13 55 36, Website: www.fachcolorbuehler.de
Filmentwicklung S/W, C41 und E6 Kleinbild bis 8x10 inch, C-Prints bis Breite 182 cm.

This info is from 2009, so you better call and ask if they still accept orders!

Maybe that helps....


PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, that's a whole bunch of very useful information.

Thank you Klaus, appreciate it!


PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most welcome, hope it helps!


PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main trouble for the MM is that the M8 creates fantastic B+W shots by itself and is supposedly * obsolete* So it has competition from a camera that is now approaching 7 years old . ( albeit a crop sensor )

As Hari says, with Silver Efex pro any camera becomes a Monochrom Smile It may be super rad at higher ISOs etc but I like the leeway to choose when to process in colour and when to do B+W.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sure is better, similar to the current Foveon sensor that is giving extremely sharp images - it is the same principle actually, applied only on light whatever color and therefore not requiring the multiple layers of the Foveon. And removing the Bayer sensor will surely make greyscale more precise because of avoiding the loss of information coming from the colored filters of the Bayer matrix, same for dynamic range. And removing the matrix removed the AA filter, hence also increased sharpness. So yes, if you're on sharpness and on B&W, and if you want to see how 18MP really look, the Monochrom is better than a M9 - let's see BTW if Leica makes a new version based on the new sensor of the M.

Then, is this "better" worth it? Worth the price tag of a (new) car? Worth the limitations of shooting only B&W? Worth 40 times Silver Efex Pro? This is a personal question. To be fair, one could ask the same question about all Leica gear.

I'm impressed by the concept and by its results, and even, I do like the principle, so I'd love Sony to do a Nex M for similar price as a normal Nex Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A full frame BW mirrorless would be something I'd buy, not sure a APS-C one would appeal the same as I'm still happy shooting bw film


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some day, maybe there will be digital sensor 'film' - you pull out one and push in another, sensors with different characteristics, for color, b&w, etc


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can have different sensors just today, both BW and colour, its just matter of money;) but I doubt there will be significant differences in "characteristics" since all of them are made from sillicone


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, good point about character, and more importantly, digital can never be as satisfying as a process for me, there's something rewarding about using a film camera and developing it yourself that digital doesn't offer.

I would like to try a Leica M mono, but never will due to price. I am happy enough with what I can manage with a 1952 Contax/Biogon combo, some 1982 expired Tech Pan and some 1988 expired Microdol-X powder, but I would like to see manufacturers pursue this digital bw concept further and price it so it is more widely adoptable by folks. Total investment in the camera, lens, film, developer and scanner that produced this image was less than 350ukp.



Scanning 35mm with my Plustek 7600i scanner gives me nice 16MP images, might not be as good as an M mono, but it's good enough for a lot of shots.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with all the above comments PLUS what we're missing is -> personal taste

Most of the Monochrome images i've seen from the camera have a very strong Grey tinge to it

Not all the people USING the camera have learnt how to PROCESS the files and get good RESULTS.

I really fail to see how a RAW file shot at 18 MP from any decent camera and lens, exposed properly, cant not look as good as a file from the Monochrome if the USER knows how to process the files using the available tools.

Agreed, the process time might be shorter if you use the Monochrome camera to get to the end result you want but that's a different topic altogether.

To evolve this thread to the next level, why don't you guys show one color shot and your interpretation of the same shot in B&W? Using whatever processing software you have at hand but do mention the gear used as well as the software used.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's one of my first attempts at using silverfx from a couple of years ago, Fujicolor 200 dev and scan at local supermarket, Konica FT-1 with Hexanon 4/21:


#1

#2


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Here's one of my first attempts at using silverfx from a couple of years ago, Fujicolor 200 dev and scan at local supermarket, Konica FT-1 with Hexanon 4/21:


#1

#2


Now that's what i'm talking about!

nice conversion Ian!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Hari. Silverefex is great, and what is so good about it is how easy it is to get great results. I have plenty of NEX-3 BW conversions too if you'd like to see some.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Cheers Hari. Silverefex is great, and what is so good about it is how easy it is to get great results. I have plenty of NEX-3 BW conversions too if you'd like to see some.


Please do post more!

Original image in color, equipment used and then the B&W conversion. Not limited to SFX pro as there is another thread on this already.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to give it a try. Shot with the Nex 6 + Sigma 19/2.8, first processed with Calico for stitching and some common processed (crop and leveling) in Lightroom.
1. Color, processed through Lightroom:


2. B&W, processed with Silver Efex:


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ylyad wrote:
I wanted to give it a try. Shot with the Nex 6 + Sigma 19/2.8, first processed with Calico for stitching and some common processed (crop and leveling) in Lightroom.
1. Color, processed through Lightroom:


2. B&W, processed with Silver Efex:


Wow! Are you selling a print of this?

I love it!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leica M8 and 1964 rigid summicron 50







Leica M8 and 1952 Summaron 35/3,5





PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1958 Elmar 90/4 after took it apart and cleaned off the haze and fixed up the helicoil , it feels almost brand new!

these are ISO 2500 on my M8!







and a 1973 Elmarit 135/2.8 lens at the zoo







PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a Russian Summicron - Helios-103 on my NEX-3, wide open.

#1

#2


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same camera and lens, f4.

#1

#2