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Suggestions for compact 20mm on NEX
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Suggestions for compact 20mm on NEX Reply with quote
HI all,

Back from a bit of hiatus!

I have never owned/used a 20mm lens. I use a Zeiss MF 21mm on the 5D MII and am happy with it, but now I would like a compact 20 prime to stick on the front of a NEX 3 to yield a 35mm field of view. I have narrowed my shortlist down to the following three lenses:

Olympus OM Zuiko Auto-W 21mm f/3.5
Nikon Nikkor 20mm f/4 or 20mm f/3.5 Non-Ai (52mm filters) or Ai version
Voigtländer 21mm f/4 P for Leica M

Any suggestions and other tidbits of forum wisdom from those experienced with these lens in combination with the NEX would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Paul


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wouldn´t choose that Skopar - last lens is protruding very close to sensor and this leads to bad quality in corners; that´s what I noticed when looking for this lens. But I don´t use NEX, but I use film, so no problem for me. Zuiko is really great and performs great on digital, I´ve tried it on 5DmkII and results were stelar. I have no experience with nikkors though, but I´d say you won´t be dissapointed with MC Zuiko;) just take care to find one with MC


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
interesting observation about the Skopar berraneck
anyone has experience with the Skopar on the NEX5N?

Paul you also could consider a Olympus "Pen-F" G.Zuiko Auto-W f3.5 20mm


It is very small and only needs a very short adapter, and it performs very well!
It's weaknesses are that it easily flares and that it vignettes at open apertures

see my photos taken with it on a NEX5N
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/sets/72157628125919493/show/


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
berraneck wrote:
I wouldn´t choose that Skopar - last lens is protruding very close to sensor and this leads to bad quality in corners; that´s what I noticed when looking for this lens. But I don´t use NEX, but I use film, so no problem for me. Zuiko is really great and performs great on digital, I´ve tried it on 5DmkII and results were stelar. I have no experience with nikkors though, but I´d say you won´t be dissapointed with MC Zuiko;) just take care to find one with MC



Thanks for the input on the MC Zuiko and Voigtlander. I have heard similar good reviews, and I like the compact size. I also like the dea that I could use it on the 5D as well as the NEX. It would make a much more compact hiking/backing lens than the Zeiss on the Canon. Do you have any sample images of the Zuiko?

Your comments about the Voigtlander are also in line with folks like Ken Rockwell, who feel that the near nodal point of the len's design is positioned too close to the sensor, yielding weird results around the edges. I have not seen many examples of this lens used on the NEX, however.

Thanks again for the great info!


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
20/4 nikkor on the Nex 5N





patrickh


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
pdccameras wrote:
Thanks for the input on the MC Zuiko and Voigtlander. I have heard similar good reviews, and I like the compact size. I also like the dea that I could use it on the 5D as well as the NEX. It would make a much more compact hiking/backing lens than the Zeiss on the Canon. Do you have any sample images of the Zuiko?
my observation about Voigtlander is based on images found on flickr and some forums, ussualy from leica M8 or M9. I don´t know whether the corners are bad simply because of lens performance or its behaviour on digital, but since the NEX has smaller sensor it might not an issue.

unfortunately I don´t have any own (digital) samples from zuiko Sad but yes, it has big advantage that it can be mounted also on EF mount


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: 20mm lens Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:
interesting observation about the Skopar berraneck
anyone has experience with the Skopar on the NEX5N?

Paul you also could consider a Olympus "Pen-F" G.Zuiko Auto-W f3.5 20mm


It is very small and only needs a very short adapter, and it performs very well!
It's weaknesses are that it easily flares and that it vignettes at open apertures

see my photos taken with it on a NEX5N
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/sets/72157628125919493/show/


Thanks for the suggestion on the Olympus Pen lens! I hadn't thought of this little lens. Your images are super - I love the color and the glow - reminiscent of classic Leitz glass. I will have to add this lens to the list as well. Thanks for sharing!

paul


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
patrickh[/quote]

Interesting image! Thank you for posting. Is the red coloration around the water an actual feature of the landscape or a color fringing atrifact?

Paul


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had the 21/3/5 for the OM, and used it a lot. It got crummy out towards the edges, but was beautifully compact, and one of my favorite lenses at the time. At less than full frame, perhaps the crummy corners would be cropped, though. You can see in several of the following pix the rather tidy way it flared when the sun was in the photo.

Images I shot with it include the four horse shots in a row in this set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdarnton/6661600463/in/set-72157628767257187

and this and the following one:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdarnton/6980554692/in/set-72157628767257187/

If you want to look deeper, the "actions" menu above each shot leads to high res scans. Film is Tri-X in all cases, so ultimate sharpness won't be demonstrated.

I can always ID them quickly because I had a UV filter on it that chopped the corners. :-)


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mdarnton wrote:
I had the 21/3/5 for the OM, and used it a lot. It got crummy out towards the edges, but was beautifully compact, and one of my favorite lenses at the time. At less than full frame, perhaps the crummy corners would be cropped, though. You can see in several of the following pix the rather tidy way it flared when the sun was in the photo.




Thanks so much for posting your links- great photos. I have always thought that the key to super wide photography was to fill the foreground - like you have with the two horses skidding logs out of the woods. Aside from the benefits to composition, that's where your max resolution and contrast is going to be. It looks to me while there is some softening in the corners in terms of resolution, the contrast holds up quite well. At normal image sizes and viewing distances, the drop off in sharpness is tough to ascertain

Based on your samples, the lens does indeed handle flare quite well. The advantage of the extra diaphrpgm blades of the Voigtlander, which can produce nicer star-shaped flare, seems a bit overrated to me. It is an easy (and much cheeper fix in Photoshop!).

I like the gritty look of your images that provide a journalistic feel to the photos. The combo of the lens, the classic tri-x grain (souped in D-76?) and your photographic skill really take these images beyond what could easily have been just snapshots.

The Zuiko seems like a good choice!

P.


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Even if that might be considered unappropriate here, I'd recommend the new Sigma EX 2.8/19 for NEX.
It's not more expensive than most manual 20ish mm lenses and cheaper than some - and it's new!
(You never know what a pre-owner has done to a lens.)

Those Sigma E-mount lenses are also pretty nice and compact. The only lens that can compete in that respect is the PEN Zuiko recommended by Andreas (kuuan).

Take for example the Nikkor 3.5/20 UD. That's a fantastic lens! But it's too big for a NEX, as is a CZJ Flek 4/20.
They are usable on a NEX for sure, but it's not fun really.

If you definitely want to go for a manual lens, I'd say the PEN Zuiko 3.5/20 (if you can find one!), the Nikkor 4/20 or the 21mm Zuiko (if you can afford one of those).
And 21mm rangefinder lenses are even more expensive!


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paul

The whole area is red - comes from the soil.


patrickh


I have used this lens on my nikons as well and it is one of the cleanest I know of at this focal length. I actually prefer it to my newer 20/2.8 nikkor. Embarassed


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no idea about the CV 21mm, but there is another CV 20mm 3.5 "pancake" for Nikon and if you consider to use a Nikkor 20mm, you are willing to use a long adaptor, means you also might consider this lens, an investment for nearly any exisiting mount.
Having the Nikkor UD and the 20mm CJZ, i do not fully agree with Carsten: if you look carefully behind these lenses you will find the NEX Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="LucisPictor"]Even if that might be considered unappropriate here, I'd recommend the new Sigma EX 2.8/19 for NEX.
It's not more expensive than most manual 20ish mm lenses and cheaper than some - and it's new!
(You never know what a pre-owner has done to a lens.)

Lucis,

The performance of the Sigma 19 looks very respectable, and, of course, it CAN be manually focussed if one so desires.

Thanks for the tip!


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="patrickh"]Paul

The whole area is red - comes from the soil.


patrickh


Amazing color!


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
56 DIN wrote:
no idea about the CV 21mm, but there is another CV 20mm 3.5 "pancake" for Nikon and if you consider to use a Nikkor 20mm, you are willing to use a long adaptor, means you also might consider this lens, an investment for nearly any exisiting mount.
Having the Nikkor UD and the 20mm CJZ, i do not fully agree with Carsten: if you look carefully behind these lenses you will find the NEX Very Happy



I saw this one as well. Still wondering about the nodal point issue.

P.


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks to one and all, this has helped, but I still have to weigh the pros and cons. IQ being equal, and quite subjective, the 20mm for the Pen provides a very compact package, but so does the Sigma MF/AF and the Sigma has the option of going full auto should the need arise. Also the Pen's are getting tougher and tougher to touch at a decent price. The Sigma has a definite price point advantage. The Nikkor and Olympus OM are good performers, but produce a bulkier package.

I have found shooting the NEX with either a 35mm f/3.5 Super Tak or a 35mm f/3.5 screwmount Summaron as normals (albeit slow normals) to be very pleasurable and very satisfying. So using that as a guide, perhaps the Nikkor and OM would not seem all that bulky to me.

Tough decision. Perhaps, if I had a million $$$$, one of each! Wink

Report back later,

Paul


PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Buy a Samsung NX100+20mm Samsung Pancake Wink cost probably same than you buy something for NEX and you will have one more camera Wink


PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
pdccameras wrote:
Thanks to one and all, this has helped, but I still have to weigh the pros and cons. IQ being equal, and quite subjective, the 20mm for the Pen provides a very compact package, but so does the Sigma MF/AF and the Sigma has the option of going full auto should the need arise. Also the Pen's are getting tougher and tougher to touch at a decent price. The Sigma has a definite price point advantage. The Nikkor and Olympus OM are good performers, but produce a bulkier package.

I have found shooting the NEX with either a 35mm f/3.5 Super Tak or a 35mm f/3.5 screwmount Summaron as normals (albeit slow normals) to be very pleasurable and very satisfying. So using that as a guide, perhaps the Nikkor and OM would not seem all that bulky to me.

Tough decision. Perhaps, if I had a million $$$$, one of each! Wink

Report back later,

Paul


Paul same here. I find using my Takumars and Pentax K and M primes on NEX very satisfying too. The Combo even with the adapter aren't all that big, I actually like how the combo balances just around the middle of the adapter and how it handles for focusing. The EVF tilted upwards and the camera sitting low the camera rests on the palm of my hand and makes for very comfortable handling and focusing rangefinder style.

So I add two lenses to watch out for, the Pentax M f4/20mm and Pentax A f2.8/20mm.
The M lens shines with being very compact and light, at only 150 grms it is even lighter than the certainly great OM f3.5/21 weighing 185 grms. The A f2.8/20 is of course bigger and heavier at 245 grms and will be more expensive. Both are very good lenses!

see the reviews of these two lenses:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-M-20mm-F4-Lens.html
http://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-A-20mm-F2.8-Lens.html

best greetings,
Andreas


PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Both Pentax M f4/20mm and Pentax A f2.8/20mm are costly.

I got my M20/4 after years watching in local market, not cheap.
The lens is tiny, perfectly with nex. I use all pentax lenses with tilt adapter on nex.

Pentax A 20/2.8 came up for sale once a year in the forums, but the price is far out of my budget.
Olympus OM 21/3.5 is more common to find. My is not MC, but it's also tiny.
Nikkor 20/4 is also compact, still costly.
Canon fd 20/2.8 is good too, but big and heavy.
Compactness is sony nex 16/2.8 best, but also a bit borring to use.

Still watching Konica and Minolta in this focal range...


PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dont forget the Vivitar 19mm f3.8 nice little lens


PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 for the Sigma AF lens
It's cheap, good and one of the best in this range.


PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Surprised no-one suggested the Tokina 17/3.5.


patrickh


PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
for compactness and high performance, just get Voigtlander heliar 15/4,5 it has protude back lens like 21/4, no big deal in NEX, specially 5N which has corner correction.
heliar is always with me when I want to shoot decent image
I tried nikon 20/4, flek 20/4, 20/2,8, tokina 17/3,5. i prefer heliar Wink


PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Buy a Samsung NX100+20mm Samsung Pancake Wink cost probably same than you buy something for NEX and you will have one more camera Wink

In fact, don't buy the 20mm pancake - get it with the 20-50mm kit lens and spend the change on something else!
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