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Minolta Vectis Lenses on Sony NEX
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:13 am    Post subject: Minolta Vectis Lenses on Sony NEX Reply with quote
Hi folks

I am interested in makeing an adapter to mount my Minolta Vectis lenses on my NEX.

Of course, it's not hard to do physically, the Vectis register is 38mm, the NEX 18mm so it just needs a 20mm tube with a NEX mount on the back and a Vectis one on the front.

But the difficulty is in the all-electronic nature of the Vectis lenses, they need control signals from the body for focus and aperture.

What I am wondering is, can I find out the pinouts of the NEX and Vectix mounts' electrical connectors to see if it is possible to wire them together. It is just possible that SONY didn't change the voltages and protocols when they designed the NEX mount so the Vectis, Minolta/Sony A-mount and NEX E-mount all have the same voltages and protocols.

Anyone know where I can find out the pinout information?

Vectis mount:



NEX mount:



PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looking at the Sony/Minolta A-mount, it looks very similar to the Vectis one:



Which has me thinking, if the mounts are so similar with the same number of electrical pins in the same position, then maybe the electircal pinout is the same?

Sony sell an adapter that allows you to use a-mount lenses on the NEX, maybe I can make something similar to allow Vectis lenses to work on the NEX?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, I have found the pinout info for the A-mount:

Quote:
Vasim Valejev , Jul 16, 2006; 06:16 a.m.

Serial protocol for Minolta's lens is SPI (but without MasterOut/SlaveIn line, all data is coming from lens only) where lens is SPI slave.

Pinout of Minolta AF:

(link)

This picture is a bit old and real pinout is:

4 - Ground 5 - SS (inverted, as in SPI specification) 6 - SCK 7 - Vcc (+5 volts, about +3 volts when idle) 8 - MISO

SSM/xi/D pins meaning is unknown. I've did read ROM data from Quantaray 35-80/4-5.6 lens, it has 33 bytes (actually, 32, first byte - 0xFF):

0xff, 0x80, 0x28, 0x50, 0x04, 0x20, 0x10, 0x10, 0x3C, 0x33, 0x00, 0xfb, 0x42, 0xfe, 0x00, 0x00, 0x50, 0x00, 0xa7, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0xa7, 0x63 (at 60/4.5)




It's a fair bet that the Vectis pinout is exactly the same.

Now I need to find the NEX's E-mount pinout...


PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fascinating and I am delighted that you have the time and determination .....

God speed and the best of British!

Keep us informed and remember: no experiment is a disaster!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It seems an interesting project but I am not seeing the point of it.

Why do you want to adapt Vectis lenses. I had a Vectis S1 SLR some time ago and the system was ok for the time but as far as I remember the lenses where neither astonishing nor anything special. Are there any hidden gems in the system?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If a simple modification of the alpha-mount adapter (i.e. shortening the barrel and swapping mounts) would make them fit with all functions, they would be a alternative to the E-mount lenses (where we have too little choice right now). Arguably they aren't better - at the very best/worst they might be the same, but the Vectis macro was 50mm, which would make it more useful than the too short 30mm E-mount one.

And given the extreme scarcity of Vectis lenses apart from the kit zooms, that will not help much, once that knowledge spreads beyond us - the few Vectis primes that did exist would become unobtainable as soon as such an adapter sees wider use.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, the Vectis lenses are not that common, there were only 7 models after all.

They are tiny, light and almost ideal for the NEX in size and factor I think.

They can be had so cheap as well.

The 400mm mirror lens would be fantastic on the NEX imho


PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Every time I see those lenses on ebay I feel sorry for them being stuck to what has become a dead end system and I have always wondered how well they would work on an NEX or a M43 cam.

I doubt if the AF would do much except hunt continuously but as long as you could get the aperture to work that would be the most important thing!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fatdeeman wrote:

I doubt if the AF would do much except hunt continuously


They might be slow, but they should focus, just like the adaptable alpha lenses. And as there are Alpha AF lens adapters for both the Nex and Vectis systems, it looks as if a Nex/Vectis adapter with full AF control should not be too complex either - it might even be as trivial as replacing mounts, if Sony was lazy at re-inventing the wheel.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't think it lazy, just common sense not to reinvent the wheel, they had a fully working well proven af system so why change the way it communicates to the lens etc?

I expect one reason why Sony created the E-mount was so that people couldn't just use a 20mm extension tube with straight-thru wiring and use their Vectis lenses on the NEX, if you think about it, the Vectis lenses are almost perfect for the NEX - very small, lightweight, designed to cover APS size.

I would love to get the Vectis lenses working on NEX, the 80-240 APO would be brilliant on the NEX sensor imho.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This sounds beautifull.
If you need a vectis camera for parts or testing, let me know. I have a few S1 camera's. You can get one for free.

Gerrit


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Gerrit

I would love some Vectis parts, that would allow me to build an adapter, whether I can make the electricals work or not I don't know, but the physical adapter shouldn't be too tricky.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I ssw this on Ebay the other day, it's an iris diaphragm that seems to be intended for people building/converting lenses.

Click here to see on Ebay

There's another on with M42 threads built in

Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The last Vectis S1 I bid on finally went for 2.50€+6.90€ shipping, with kit lens - it should not be too hard to get parts for experiments. The Vectis primes on the other hand are rarely seen except in the hands of high-price shops, so it is debatable whether an adapter would be of any use...


PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Please send me a PM with your adress.
I will send you a Vectis S1 camera

Gerrit


PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Minolta Vectis Lenses on Sony NEX Reply with quote
Um..

if you can put them to good use, I will applaud (because Vectis is dead except when you find the 100ix slide film)

HOWEVER, I do doubt it is the same protocol. Vectis has aperture control in the lens, A-mount has mechanical aperture control. Just one point that would scream no. I mean, for the work involved, you could get a real lens...

If you still want that maybe ask/search mi-fo.de, if you are not repelled by their layout with more sticky threads than space...

Nobody seems to know how good the V Lenses actually are - hey, it's APS, something to laugh at anyway - found no ranking by image quality - and the more interesting lenses like macro and mirror are not dirt cheap either.

I'd stick with a nice Minolta MC lens, or M42 lens, some of them are pretty small. Like, Revueflex 55/1.8.

Minolta Dynax 3/4 with such a lens is not much bigger than Vectis S-1 (yes I do own both) but much cheaper in operation, and not the dreaded APS.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Minolta Vectis Lenses on Sony NEX Reply with quote
buerokratiehasser wrote:

HOWEVER, I do doubt it is the same protocol. Vectis has aperture control in the lens, A-mount has mechanical aperture control.


Well, there are A-mount adapters for both Vectis and E-mount, and all three are capable of electronically controlling the lens aperture - on the latter two it indeed is required.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: Minolta Vectis Lenses on Sony NEX Reply with quote
Sevo wrote:
buerokratiehasser wrote:

HOWEVER, I do doubt it is the same protocol. Vectis has aperture control in the lens, A-mount has mechanical aperture control.


Well, there are A-mount adapters for both Vectis and E-mount, and all three are capable of electronically controlling the lens aperture - on the latter two it indeed is required.


Interesting, so there is an adapter to put A mount lenses on Vectis?

Unless there is some micro-circuitry in the adapter to translate voltages and protocols then it must be compatiable.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Minolta Vectis Lenses on Sony NEX Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:

Interesting, so there is an adapter to put A mount lenses on Vectis?


Camerapedia as well as tests from back then say so.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
...
I would love some Vectis parts, that would allow me to build an adapter, whether I can make the electricals work or not I don't know, but the physical adapter shouldn't be too tricky.


How is your research doing? If you need more Vectis lenses for testing: I have many doubles in my collection and I'm really interested in any solution which could make Vectis lenses usable on a NEX body.

People here were asking if the lenses are any good... Well, I wouldn't compare it with Leica prime glass, of course. But the rendering - even from scanned weird APS film - is not as bad one might think... And this example is shot with the cheap V22-80 zoom. The 17/50/400 primes are better. As well as the 80-240 APO zoom.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I don't think it lazy, just common sense not to reinvent the wheel, they had a fully working well proven af system so why change the way it communicates to the lens etc?

I expect one reason why Sony created the E-mount was so that people couldn't just use a 20mm extension tube with straight-thru wiring and use their Vectis lenses on the NEX, if you think about it, the Vectis lenses are almost perfect for the NEX - very small, lightweight, designed to cover APS size.

I would love to get the Vectis lenses working on NEX, the 80-240 APO would be brilliant on the NEX sensor imho.


It is even plausible that modern SSM uses the same communication as Vectis to drive focus, but I haven't looked into the A-mount at all let alone Vectis mount, so this is pure speculation on my part.

But I did look into the NEX communication protocol rather extensively. Newer lens interfaces requires a higher communication speed to carry more metadata (e.g. for auto correction of distortion in post). The market wants enhancements for motion picture use, and at the same time need to consume as little power as possible. The change is justified, in my opinion, especially given the LA-EA1 and LA-EA2 are available as bridges to A-mount owners.

They could have made a LA-EV1 - in fact it could have been easier and cheaper to make because Vectis lenses have electronically-controlled aperture and no mechanical aperture actuator is necessary. However, the Vectis kit lenses are probably not worth adapting but the fixed-focal lengths are so rare and hard-to-find, I wonder if there is any market for such an adapter.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Minolta Vectis Lenses on Sony NEX Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Interesting, so there is an adapter to put A mount lenses on Vectis? Unless there is some micro-circuitry in the adapter to translate voltages and protocols then it must be compatiable.

Yes, there was a Minolta V Mount Converter MC-V1 for using A mount lenses on the Vectis cameras. They're very rare (we've only ever seen two of them), and we sold one recently on eBay (item number 360395958557), where you'll find much more information. Moderators please note: this isn't advertising - the item has been sold, and it's unlikely we'll ever see another one!

The adapter is purely mechanical, and has an aperture ring for controlling the diaphragm. AF doesn't work, of course, but you can use stopped down metering in aperture priority auto exposure mode.
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