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UV images with 85mm f4.5 Asahi Ultra-Achromatic-Takumar
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject: UV images with 85mm f4.5 Asahi Ultra-Achromatic-Takumar Reply with quote
A couple of UV shots from the garden today. Buttercup and Clematis. Taken with a UV modified Nikon d810 and 85mm f4.5 Asahi Ultra-Achromatic Takumar. I used a lens free M42 to Nikon adapter for mounting the lens. ISO800, for both shots, and whitebalanced in Darktable using a PTFE disk. Resized for sharing here. Lighting was poor (overcast, and about 9AM). Exposure between 5s and 20s, and f16.

#1


#2


A cropped version of the Clematis image to show the centre.

#3


Here's how they looked with normal imaging (not great photos, just taken on my phone for reference).

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#5


PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1 very nice ones Jonathan!!


PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it true that only 25 of those are known to exist? Where did you even get one? How much did it cost? Sorry for all the questions but I'm just really intrigued by this lens so I wonder what is it all about.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No, 45 - ebay - $6.000

Enough...


PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Interesting -- the diffuse UV light helped make these images spectacular!


PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fandyus wrote:
Is it true that only 25 of those are known to exist? Where did you even get one? How much did it cost? Sorry for all the questions but I'm just really intrigued by this lens so I wonder what is it all about.

https://takumarguide.weebly.com/1--45--85-43851.html says
Quote:
total estimated 1,100 copies made
..
LENS PRODUCTION (∑ lenses) ∑n = 45 Serial Numbers observed in 6 batches covering 682 SN min. < ∑ lenses < 1,566 SN max.
SN min. = accumulated total of serial numbers observed within 6 batches
SN max. = accumulated total of serial numbers observed between adjacent batches of other lenses.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Fandyus wrote:
Is it true that only 25 of those are known to exist? Where did you even get one? How much did it cost? Sorry for all the questions but I'm just really intrigued by this lens so I wonder what is it all about.

https://takumarguide.weebly.com/1--45--85-43851.html says
Quote:
total estimated 1,100 copies made
..
LENS PRODUCTION (∑ lenses) ∑n = 45 Serial Numbers observed in 6 batches covering 682 SN min. < ∑ lenses < 1,566 SN max.
SN min. = accumulated total of serial numbers observed within 6 batches
SN max. = accumulated total of serial numbers observed between adjacent batches of other lenses.


Thanks for the reply, I really wish I could get my hands on one of these...


PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Offers over $6.000 happily accepted… 😉


PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Offers over $6.000 happily accepted… 😉


Pinky to Lip.... One MEeeelllyun Dollars... Or I turn mine into a UV LAZUHR...

Things have gone insane. Canon 85/1.5 went recently for $4800 on Ebay.

On the 85/4.5 - Not sure how 1100 units made dwindled to the current count. I doubt that many were made. One shows up on Ebay completed sales, and went for $4,999.
Many of these lenses were used internally to Spectrum Analyzers, never saw a camera. Most 40+ year old equipment gets surplused, much gets tossed out. I doubt many people knew to open them up and look for a lens.

Last edited by fiftyonepointsix on Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:14 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gosh, when I read all this clueless guessing and stuff...

There are currently about 50 lenses known to still exists, as I track them since many many years.

Seriously doubt that so many as 1100 were ever manufactured. There are three batches indeed
and a few prototypes of them I was able to manifest. Actually even had one myself.

From all I had I only kept a very complete set with perfect lens and filter set, box and even the
ultra-rare white manufacturer sleeve for it...

The Quartz Takumar 85mm btw. is even more rare, as it was so shortly on the market only.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


I cannot remember the name of the Spectrum analyzer that used this lens, it was from the early 70s. I doubt many are even on the surplus market after so many years. I wonder how many other of these lenses were pulled from them before they were sold as scrap. I've salvaged some other interesting lenses before being scrapped, including some UV and IR optics.



Cosina used the same style knurling on the focus ring for the APO-Lanthar 50/2.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Clued guessing of low and high production numbers from https://takumarguide.weebly.com and Gerjan von Oosten's The Definitive Asahi Pantax Collector' Guide 1952-1977:

Quartz-Takumar 1:3.5 / 85 takumarguide 104-254 Gerjan 80-250

Ultra Achromatic Takumar 1:4.5 / 85 takumarguide 630-1566 Gerjan 450-1100

NC-Takumar 1:3.3 /300 (for Nocta camera, lens passes IR) takumarguide 11-789 Gerjan serial range recorded thus far 1687727-1987721, no estimate of total production

Ultra-Achromatic Takumar 1:5.6 / 300 takumarguide 588-1771 Gerjan 600-2050

takumarguide low estimate is based on range of observed serial numbers while maximum number is based on accumulated total of serial numbers observed between adjacent batches of other lenses.

I presume Gerjan's figures are based on Asahi factory records.

also from https://takumarguide.weebly.com/blog/serial-number-continuity
Quote:
Serial Number Continuity

2/1/2021

2 Comments

The hypothesis that all Takumar lenses have unique serial numbers is supported.

However, that doesn’t always apply to lenses of different kinds from adjacent batches. On very rare occasions (19 in all, or 0.03% of such batches), the last copy produced in a batch with serial number (n), is followed by the first copy of the lens in the next batch also with serial number (n), instead of (n+1). I have long puzzled over this as an error on my part because it hasn’t been previously reported. I then realized that no one else is likely to have access to this information. I have checked and re-checked myself to be convinced that this phenomenon may be real. It is definitely human error, either mine, or another's (or both) and infinitesimally insignificant. Just in case you think I'm being curmudgeonly, on a good day I believe the error is a keyboard stroke misfire, but the analysis below allows otherwise. The best part of this dithering is that it underlines the truth of the above tenet (and my keyboard needs a good clean).

So, only adjacent batches of different lenses very rarely have the same serial number because of this kind of lapse in continuity. To date I have recorded over 68,000 lenses in over 5,800 batches. In the first 1 million serial numbers I found two pairs of batches sharing a serial number. Then in the mid 1960’s just after 2.5 million serial numbers 6 close-packed examples appear. Only one example occurs up to 4 million; another two around 5 million. Three appear up to 6 million (now including 6x7 lenses); one up to 7 million and four up to 8 million, all involving 6x7 lenses.

I am sharing this information for historical reasons. These observations may follow historical trends in the complexity of manufacture when staff and procedures would be facing greatest demands. But, I have not been able to hold, or observe two lenses with identical serial numbers simultaneously. Actual details can be supplied if needed.

(These comments don't apply to AOCo publications. "Artistic licence", or other rules apply, because serial numbers on illustrations in brochures are often fictitious (i.e. re-used serial numbers).


PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm reminded of the Tootsie Pop commercial of 1970 or so, with the Boy wondering how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop. The Owl offers to find out, and after three licks- bites it. Then tells the boy, "Three".

Low production lenses, numbers from the hundreds to 2000 or so: after 50 years, always wondered how many were in circulation. The Canon 50mm F2.2 was in production for 6 months, easy to find on Ebay. Nikkor 5cm F1.5 in Leica mount, maybe 300 produced- scooped up by collectors like me, still can find on Ebay. Canon 85/1.5- used to be easy to find on Ebay, 4 or 5 at a time. 2000 produced. Cannot find them now because the film industry scooped them all up at 10x what I paid for mine.

The 85/4.5 - extremely expensive and slow for most photographers in 1970. Produced for the scientific market. Used internally in test and measurement optical equipment in the 1970s. Also used by forensic examiners. I doubt many photographers bought it for personal use. That equipment went out of use long ago, surplused or trashed. You would have to have the Pentax Sales records to know how many went to instrument manufacturers.

What is known: how many serial numbers have been recorded over the years, and the number is around 40. Did anyone else think to look in an Optical Spectrum Analyzer before it got tossed?


PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, all the ones I know of or have owned came from scientific (80%) or forensic (20%) use.
Never heard before you told me that they were used within scientific instruments!
Which Instrument was this (image, description)??

I only know of one other UV lens made by Hamamatsu which was used in such an instrument.

Oh and not to forget, ONE QUARTZ TAKUMAR 85mm had a very special use: in a JAMES BOND CAR!



PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Well, all the ones I know of or have owned came from scientific (80%) or forensic (20%) use.
Never heard before you told me that they were used within scientific instruments!
Which Instrument was this (image, description)??

I only know of one other UV lens made by Hamamatsu which was used in such an instrument.


Klaus- 20 years ago we were getting rid of a 30 year old piece of broken lab gear. It was big, 2ft by 4ft or so. Open it up, and the device had the 42mm mount with the 85/4.5 UAT screwed into it. I worked with IR, recognized the lens was useful- so grabbed it. The device was an Optical Spectrum Analyzer. We used to have custom optics made, they were expensive. I even used my Canon 50/0.95 with a Sensors Unlimited NIR camera, worked great at 1.5um.

Jenoptik still advertises the 60mm UV-NIR and 105mm UV Lenses for sale. Are they still being manufactured? They advertise as a replacement for the UV Nikkors.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.edmundoptics.com/f/uv-fixed-focal-length-lenses/12983/ and they sell elements...

https://www.jenoptik.us/products/optical-systems/customized-and-standardized-objective-lenses/multispectral-objective-lenses

and of course as blazer0ne mentions the Nikon Rayfact 105
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Rayfact+105&_sacat=0

Of course in light of Klaus' web sites, the above information is moot (understatement!)

also http://www.savazzi.net/photography/35mmuv.html

Last edited by visualopsins on Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fiftyonepointsix wrote:

Klaus- 20 years ago we were getting rid of a 30 year old piece of broken lab gear. It was big, 2ft by 4ft or so. Open it up, and the device had the 42mm mount with the 85/4.5 UAT screwed into it. I worked with IR, recognized the lens was useful- so grabbed it. The device was an Optical Spectrum Analyzer. We used to have custom optics made, they were expensive. I even used my Canon 50/0.95 with a Sensors Unlimited NIR camera, worked great at 1.5um.

Jenoptik still advertises the 60mm UV-NIR and 105mm UV Lenses for sale. Are they still being manufactured? They advertise as a replacement for the UV Nikkors.


Hmm, interesting, surely no mass product this was! Thinking about that, the UV Nikkor 105mm also was used in such systems, at least I know about one and in some forensic systems back then. Very expensive they were.

I found several Hamamatsu quartz fluorite UV lenses in now outdated spectrum analyzers, but a while ago. Today there are many more such lenses available, well at least LAVISION had one made, a 2.8/85mm UV-IR quartz fluorite lens, for a mere $18.000 used for some laser induced computerized flame analysis systems.

Yep, the 60mm Jenoptik is still for sale, got one not too long ago for a decent price (like new). But it also has glass elements in it, so its reach is not that deep (details on my BLOG).

Here FYI the measurements I made about said lenses...



I had the Lavision 2.8/85mm here for testing, nicely done lens, heavy and very well built, but had to be stopped down to get sufficient results, so that f2.8 is impressive, but not really useful. Focus shift was minimal. I still prefer the UV Nikkor 105mm to be honest...

Well all that drifted away a bit from the Ultra Achromatic Takumat 4.5/85mm, so here in comparison its transmission along with its older brother, the Quartz Takumar 3.5/85mm (and that Lavision 2.8/85mm):



PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Klaus- Have you done similar measurements with the Coastal Optics 105mm F4 lens in Nikon F-Mount?

And, I'll keep an eye out for more Quartz lenses being tossed out.

We had custom lenses made from Zinc Selenide, including a Window for the P3 Orion. That was ~$50K 40 years ago.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, but I feel this should not deviate too much from the original posting...

As an exception here it is [but beware, that was quite an older spectrometer setup which turned out to be off by approx. 8-10% on the too high side; which I solved later...]:



Quite unusual type of BBAR coating they had used. Optically a, well, good lens, but optically and especially mechanically quite inferior to the UV-Nikkor.

Read more abut it here: https://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/2018/08/uv-nikkor-105mm-vs-coastal-optical.html

Back to the UAT85mm please...


PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I use the Pentax UAT more for it's Infrared capability, not so much UV. The CCD in the M9 and M Monochrom are very sensitive to UV, to the point that I need to use a UV filter with my APO-Lanthar 50/2.
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