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T4 adapters -Soligor and Vivitar -Interchangeable?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject: T4 adapters -Soligor and Vivitar -Interchangeable? Reply with quote
The title say it all.
Are the T4 adapters for Soligor able to be used on Vivitar lenses and visa-versa?
Thanks OH


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: T4 adapters -Soligor and Vivitar -Interchangeable? Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
The title say it all.
Are the T4 adapters for Soligor able to be used on Vivitar lenses and visa-versa?
Thanks OH


As far as I know, it's the same system and they are interchangeable.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
T4 -- TX?

I have a Soligor and a Vivitar with TX and they do swap, but one is a better fit in the other than the other way around - if you know what I mean. They do swap, but the ratchet mechanism is not as easy on one combination. I'll dig them out later and let you know.

Meantime, I found the excellent web page by casualcollector.

https://sites.google.com/site/casualcollectorproject/Home/lenses/t4-for-two

..


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
T4 -- TX?

I have a Soligor and a Vivitar with TX and they do swap, but one is a better fit in the other than the other way around - if you know what I mean. They do swap, but the ratchet mechanism is not as easy on one combination. I'll dig them out later and let you know.

Meantime, I found the excellent web page by casualcollector.

https://sites.google.com/site/casualcollectorproject/Home/lenses/t4-for-two

..



The T4 adapter system was marketed by both Soligor and Vivitar. In my experience, a M42 or a Minolta SR adapter from a Soligor lens would work perfectly on a Vivitar T4 lens. TX adapters in turn came later and only Vivitar carried them. Both systems are very similar and, at first glance, indistinguishable. The TX system allowed for automatic exposure operation (as opposed to the auto aperture function). It also had adapters for some SLR systems that were not supported at the in T4 stage - Konica AR for example.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
konicamera wrote:
Lloydy wrote:
T4 -- TX?

I have a Soligor and a Vivitar with TX and they do swap, but one is a better fit in the other than the other way around - if you know what I mean. They do swap, but the ratchet mechanism is not as easy on one combination. I'll dig them out later and let you know.

Meantime, I found the excellent web page by casualcollector.

https://sites.google.com/site/casualcollectorproject/Home/lenses/t4-for-two

..



The T4 adapter system was marketed by both Soligor and Vivitar. In my experience, a M42 or a Minolta SR adapter from a Soligor lens would work perfectly on a Vivitar T4 lens. TX adapters in turn came later and only Vivitar carried them. Both systems are very similar and, at first glance, indistinguishable. The TX system allowed for automatic exposure operation (as opposed to the auto aperture function). It also had adapters for some SLR systems that were not supported at the in T4 stage - Konica AR for example.


I always wondered why I could never find a T adaptor for the AR system, came across an F adaptor once but it didn't really help.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: T4 adapters -Soligor and Vivitar -Interchangeable? Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
The title say it all.
Are the T4 adapters for Soligor able to be used on Vivitar lenses and visa-versa?
Thanks OH


There is no such things as a "Soligor lenses" or "Vivitar lenses". Only Tokina lenses with their T4 mount system sold under the "Soligor" and "Vivitar" brands.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Layer-cake wrote:

I always wondered why I could never find a T adaptor for the AR system, came across an F adaptor once but it didn't really help.


I think you are confusing T-mounts/adapters with T4 and TX mounts/adapters.

The T-mount is a thread mount 42mm in diameter and with a 0.75mm thread pitch. It looks identical to the M42 mount. But don't screw your M42 lens into it, because the M42 thread pitch is 1.0mm. It will go in a turn and jam. There are T-mounts for Konica F, Konica AR, and probably all other OEMs out there. They go back to the late 1950s. T-mounts were easy to make because there are absolutely no linkages, cams or pins in them: Stopped down metering if TTL (big 'if' until the mid-sixties) and manual aperture operation only. More details here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-mount

T4-mounts were an attempt to emulate the ability to use a given lens on a wide range of mounts but, in addition, to support TTL based open aperture metering and automatic aperture operation. This necessitated a mobile mechanism of some sort with pins and cams, depending on the mount. More (if not much) on that mount here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soligor#The_T4_interchangeable_mount

TX-mounts went even further by allowing for automatic exposure. You could use T4 adapters on TX lenses, but not the other way around.

Incidentally, the T4 and TX mounts and the lenses they supported were manufactured by Tokina.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
T4 -- TX?

I have a Soligor and a Vivitar with TX and they do swap, but one is a better fit in the other than the other way around - if you know what I mean. They do swap, but the ratchet mechanism is not as easy on one combination. I'll dig them out later and let you know.

Meantime, I found the excellent web page by casualcollector.

https://sites.google.com/site/casualcollectorproject/Home/lenses/t4-for-two

..


I wrote that about ten years ago. I still consider it to be accurate but probably not definitive. I have since gathered most of the later TX series lenses and will confirm that some TX adapters are not backwards compatible with T4 lenses. Every T4 adapter I have tried has worked with TX series lenses.

The system was manufactured by Tokina and sold by both Soligor and Vivitar. Occasionally a T4 or TX lens marked as Tokina shows up on Ebay. All are completely interchangeable but occasionally a slightly damaged or slightly out of tolerance combination may give problems.

There is a third Tokina interchangeable mount system called Automount. It was sold in the U.S. by Lentar. Lenses and adapters are very nearly identical except for the method of attachment. A threaded fastening ring instead the breech lock arrangement of the T4 system. The examples of Automount that I have are all telephotos. I have yet to see a wide angle lens with this attachment system though they must exist.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've just been messing with mine and it was as I thought - the adapters weren't a perfect fit when swapped between lenses. Eventually I figured out why.

The lenses - Vivitar Close Focus Auto Zoom 90-230 / 4.5 - Soligor 55-135 / 3.5 ( I suspect the Soligor is a lot older lens than the Vivitar )
The Vivitar is OM Mount TX and the Soligor is M42 Mount T4. ( Edited from TX to T4 as per information in subsequent posts )



When the interchangeable mount is fitted to the lens it came with the release catch ratchets into a locking position.
The OM - TX adapter to Vivitar has 3 clicks
The M42 - T4 adapter to Soligor 3 clicks

swapped over to the lenses they weren't bought with
TX to Soligor - will not click and lock
T4 to Vivitar has 4 clicks

Eventually I got the T4 adapter to Vivitar lens to click once, and it jammed solid. I had to unscrew the catch from the lens and it released. C in the pictures.
I suspected the teeth on the mount were higher on the T4 adapter, but the sizes were only 0.02mm different. - A in the pictures. It wasn't that.

The problem was the outer diameter of the knurled ring on the lens, B in the pictures, the Vivitar TX is 0.2mm smaller, so the catch that engages the teeth on the adapter is that much closer to the teeth. A bit of paper under the catch and the problem is solved.





The problem is one of manufacturing tolerances, and the fact they were made some years apart and on different machines and it's even possible a different factory. And this was the reason interchangeable mounts weren't the success they might have been.

( Post edited to reflect the information in following posts )

Last edited by Lloydy on Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:33 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
I've just been messing with mine and it was as I thought - the adapters weren't a perfect fit when swapped between lenses. Eventually I figured out why.

The lenses - Vivitar Close Focus Auto Zoom 90-230 / 4.5 - Soligor 55-135 / 3.5 ( I suspect the Soligor is a lot older lens than the Vivitar )
The Vivitar is OM Mount TX and the Soligor is M42 Mount TX.


I'm afraid you are mistaken. The differences you point to might very well be there, but the M42 mount on the Soligor is not a TX-mount.
The TX mount is clearly indicated by the letters 'TX'. If these letters are missing, you've got a T4 adapter, not a TX one. Only Vivitar marketed TX mount lenses. Soligor was in the picture only as far as the T4-mount is concerned and had no part in the TX episode.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually this was a two part problem. Lifting the catch helped, but it still wasn't quite right. Further investigation showed that the aperture pin on the OM mount - just by the green dot on the Vivitar OM adapter was 0.94mm longer than the dummy pin on the Soligor M42 adapter, so when the OM adapter was used on the Soligor the pin bottomed out and forced the adapter into a higher position.
I've just filed it down to the same length and everything works fine now.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
konicamera wrote:
Lloydy wrote:
I've just been messing with mine and it was as I thought - the adapters weren't a perfect fit when swapped between lenses. Eventually I figured out why.

The lenses - Vivitar Close Focus Auto Zoom 90-230 / 4.5 - Soligor 55-135 / 3.5 ( I suspect the Soligor is a lot older lens than the Vivitar )
The Vivitar is OM Mount TX and the Soligor is M42 Mount TX.


I'm afraid you are mistaken. The differences you point to might very well be there, but the M42 mount on the Soligor is not a TX-mount.
The TX mount is clearly indicated by the letters 'TX'. If these letters are missing, you've got a T4 adapter, not a TX one. Only Vivitar marketed TX mount lenses. Soligor was in the picture only as far as the T4-mount is concerned and had no part in the TX episode.


Ahhh........so I've just found the differences, and modified the TX to T4. Which is OK, everything works. Wink


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
casualcollector wrote:
There is a third Tokina interchangeable mount system called Automount. It was sold in the U.S. by Lentar. Lenses and adapters are very nearly identical except for the method of attachment. A threaded fastening ring instead the breech lock arrangement of the T4 system. The examples of Automount that I have are all telephotos. I have yet to see a wide angle lens with this attachment system though they must exist.


Absolutely fascinating stuff, casualcollector. Thanks.

I wonder if these two lenses might be Automount??

Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
guardian wrote:

I wonder if these two lenses might be Automount??

Click here to see on Ebay


Looks like a teleconverter and a conventional T2 preset lens.

Here are two images of T4 and Automount side by side. T4 on left, Automount on right.





PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
guardian wrote:
casualcollector wrote:
There is a third Tokina interchangeable mount system called Automount. It was sold in the U.S. by Lentar. Lenses and adapters are very nearly identical except for the method of attachment. A threaded fastening ring instead the breech lock arrangement of the T4 system. The examples of Automount that I have are all telephotos. I have yet to see a wide angle lens with this attachment system though they must exist.


Absolutely fascinating stuff, casualcollector. Thanks.

I wonder if these two lenses might be Automount??

Click here to see on Ebay


The Tokina Tele Auto 135 / 3.5 that I've just acquired has this mount, and it's not the easiest to use. It's very easy to put it back together with the aperture pin out of it's correct position.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
casualcollector wrote:



Here are two images of T4 and Automount side by side. T4 on left, Automount on right.



Thanks. But please be understanding as you read this that, prior to seeing your post, Automount was 100% unknown to me. Hence, my confusion:

Is is your belief that Automount lenses can use T4 adapters?? Or does there exist an entire family of Automount (only) adapters?


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, a separate family of Automount adapters. While the T4 and Automount adapters are similar, the method of attachment is completely different and incompatible.

T4 employs a breech lock arrangement similar to the Canon FL-FD mount, Automount uses a female threaded collar permanently attached to the lens. The Tamron Adaptamatic system also uses a threaded collar to fasten the adapter but in the Tamron system, the female collar is part of the adapter.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
casualcollector wrote:
Yes, a separate family of Automount adapters. While the T4 and Automount adapters are similar, the method of attachment is completely different and incompatible.

T4 employs a breech lock arrangement similar to the Canon FL-FD mount, Automount uses a female threaded collar permanently attached to the lens. The Tamron Adaptamatic system also uses a threaded collar to fasten the adapter but in the Tamron system, the female collar is part of the adapter.


Thanks, casualcollector. That's valuable input.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The female Tamron collar for Adaptamatics may or may not be detachable. It depended on the mount adapter.
The M42 ones I have are detachable, the Minolta ones are not, etc.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:21 am    Post subject: help removing mount adapter Reply with quote
i have mount adapters that look similar to these. on a tokina 135mm there is what appears to be a T4 to Miranda adapter ( shown here ). I can't figure out how to remove this adapter. Anyone know?

casualcollector wrote:
guardian wrote:

I wonder if these two lenses might be Automount??

Click here to see on Ebay


Looks like a teleconverter and a conventional T2 preset lens.

Here are two images of T4 and Automount side by side. T4 on left, Automount on right.





PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Press the button and turn the ring.
Sometimes the ring can be tight.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: help removing mount adapter Reply with quote
kboston wrote:
i have mount adapters that look similar to these. on a tokina 135mm there is what appears to be a T4 to Miranda adapter ( shown here ). I can't figure out how to remove this adapter. Anyone know?

casualcollector wrote:
guardian wrote:

I wonder if these two lenses might be Automount??

Click here to see on Ebay


Looks like a teleconverter and a conventional T2 preset lens.

Here are two images of T4 and Automount side by side. T4 on left, Automount on right.



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