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Suggestions very fast portrait lens?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
dickb wrote:
. . .
To be precise. . .


Thanks for the summary, dickb. I'm going to save it for future reference.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gerald wrote:
How about the Zenit Zenitar 85mm F1.4 that costs ~450 dollars brand new? However, I know nothing about its quality or performance.



This guy likes it a lot:
https://youtu.be/qVKigpWVyDM

I will definitely consider it!


PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions very fast portrait lens? Reply with quote
dickb wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
I'm looking for a very fast portrait lens because I need a very shallow DOF. Focal length somewhere in between 80 and 135mm. Canon FD 85/1.2 or Nikkor Ai 135/2 are on my mind, but I'm open to other suggestions. It has to be a good performer, not too soft wide open. Any other ideas?


There two versions of 85mm f/1.2 lens in Canon FD mount, the older breechlock Aspherical version and the newer nFD L version. The L version is quite a bit less heavy and I tend to use that one more often for that reason, but I appreciate the rendering of the Aspherical perhaps a bit more. Owning both I should make a proper comparison, but I have a considerable list of lenses to test properly..


The optical construction of both lenses is the same. Would be interesting to know whether your presumed differences in rendering are real (sample variation) or just ... well: presumed.

Stephan


PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions very fast portrait lens? Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
dickb wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
I'm looking for a very fast portrait lens because I need a very shallow DOF. Focal length somewhere in between 80 and 135mm. Canon FD 85/1.2 or Nikkor Ai 135/2 are on my mind, but I'm open to other suggestions. It has to be a good performer, not too soft wide open. Any other ideas?


There two versions of 85mm f/1.2 lens in Canon FD mount, the older breechlock Aspherical version and the newer nFD L version. The L version is quite a bit less heavy and I tend to use that one more often for that reason, but I appreciate the rendering of the Aspherical perhaps a bit more. Owning both I should make a proper comparison, but I have a considerable list of lenses to test properly..


The optical construction of both lenses is the same. Would be interesting to know whether your presumed differences in rendering are real (sample variation) or just ... well: presumed.

Stephan


What I usually read is that there is no difference, apart from the build quality (the SSC being a bit better i believe)


PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions very fast portrait lens? Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:




* Canon nFD 2/135mm: smaller, lighter and easier to work with than the Nikkor AiS 2/135mm. Performance and rendering (both infinity and portrait) indistinguishable from the Nikkor AiS 2/135mm. Low contrast, but high resolution wide open. Focusing is just right; not to loose, not too stiff. Very nice portrait lens.
*
S


Steve, somehow I found my Canon nFD 135mm f/2's contrast is ok at f/2, even at backlit condition. Perhaps our standard is different. Laugh 1


PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions very fast portrait lens? Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
stevemark wrote:
dickb wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
I'm looking for a very fast portrait lens because I need a very shallow DOF. Focal length somewhere in between 80 and 135mm. Canon FD 85/1.2 or Nikkor Ai 135/2 are on my mind, but I'm open to other suggestions. It has to be a good performer, not too soft wide open. Any other ideas?


There two versions of 85mm f/1.2 lens in Canon FD mount, the older breechlock Aspherical version and the newer nFD L version. The L version is quite a bit less heavy and I tend to use that one more often for that reason, but I appreciate the rendering of the Aspherical perhaps a bit more. Owning both I should make a proper comparison, but I have a considerable list of lenses to test properly..


The optical construction of both lenses is the same. Would be interesting to know whether your presumed differences in rendering are real (sample variation) or just ... well: presumed.

Stephan


What I usually read is that there is no difference, apart from the build quality (the SSC being a bit better i believe)



Indeed, what I now read about the optical design there shouldn't be a difference between the FD 85/1.2 Aspherical SSC and the nFD 85/1.2 L. Apart from a 9 bladed aperture in the older lens versus an 8 bladed one in the later one, but that ought not affect performance wide open. Like I said I haven't done any rigorous testing. One small, but for me relevant, difference is the minimum focus distance of 1 meter on the SSC and 0.90 meter on the L.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
Thanks for all the good recommendations.
I will probably look for a Nikkor 105/1.8 or a Canon nfd 135/2.


I have the Nikkor and it's a really nice lens, for sure.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions very fast portrait lens? Reply with quote
dickb wrote:

Indeed, what I now read about the optical design there shouldn't be a difference between the FD 85/1.2 Aspherical SSC and the nFD 85/1.2 L. Apart from a 9 bladed aperture in the older lens versus an 8 bladed one in the later one, but that ought not affect performance wide open. Like I said I haven't done any rigorous testing. One small, but for me relevant, difference is the minimum focus distance of 1 meter on the SSC and 0.90 meter on the L.

Thank you for that additional information - I only have the nFD 1.2/85mm L lens, and I wasn't aware about the differences regarding aperture blades and MFD!

S


PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I own a Canon 85/1.2 Aspherical. One of the best lenses I own. Its depth of field is so shallow that I have to pay attention to myself when I use it and make sure that I'm not moving at all when I focus and fire, or else the result might be a missed focus shot.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions very fast portrait lens? Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
I'm looking for a very fast portrait lens because I need a very shallow DOF. Focal length somewhere in between 80 and 135mm. Canon FD 85/1.2 or Nikkor Ai 135/2 are on my mind, but I'm open to other suggestions. It has to be a good performer, not too soft wide open. Any other ideas?

The FD 85/1.2 would be my first pick, nFD is slightly sharper wide open over the SSC, but the SSC has an extra aperture blade and is a bit smoother stopped down, it's perfect for portraits, my go-to lens for that purpose.
SMC Pentax A* 85/1.4, a well known performer.
SMC Pentax K 85/1.8, I've not seen a comparison with the S-M-C Takumar 85/1.8, probably very similar, I'm still quite happy with my Super Takumar 85/1.9. All are very nice.
Topcor RE 85/1.8 is razor sharp, but rare and as expensive as the FD.
Some peeps love the Leica R 80/1.4, I wasn't all impressed with the copy I tried out in store.
Canon S 100/2 and Minolta Rokkor 100/2
Contax 85/1.4 or 85/1.2 if ya got money to burn.
Helios 40 85/1.5 if you want swirl. CZJ 75/1.5 if you want the original.
Nikkor 105/2.5


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions very fast portrait lens? Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
I'm looking for a very fast portrait lens because I need a very shallow DOF. Focal length somewhere in between 80 and 135mm. Canon FD 85/1.2 or Nikkor Ai 135/2 are on my mind, but I'm open to other suggestions. It has to be a good performer, not too soft wide open. Any other ideas?

The FD 85/1.2 would be my first pick, nFD is slightly sharper wide open over the SSC, but the SSC has an extra aperture blade and is a bit smoother stopped down, it's perfect for portraits, my go-to lens for that purpose.
SMC Pentax A* 85/1.4, a well known performer.
SMC Pentax K 85/1.8, I've not seen a comparison with the S-M-C Takumar 85/1.8, probably very similar, I'm still quite happy with my Super Takumar 85/1.9. All are very nice.
Topcor RE 85/1.8 is razor sharp, but rare and as expensive as the FD.
Some peeps love the Leica R 80/1.4, I wasn't all impressed with the copy I tried out in store.
Canon S 100/2 and Minolta Rokkor 100/2
Contax 85/1.4 or 85/1.2 if ya got money to burn.
Helios 40 85/1.5 if you want swirl. CZJ 75/1.5 if you want the original.
Nikkor 105/2.5


Thanks for your comments. I've had both the Pentax K 85/1.8 and the Nikkor 105/2.5. Both lenses are great, especially the Pentax. But I want slightly more speed now. The Zenitar 85/1.4 is definitely a contender, after I saw a very positive youtube review. I'm not sure about the Canon 85/1.2. I'm not sure I can justify the very high price difference for just 1 stop. The Nikkor 105/1.8 is also still on my mind. I will look into the pentax-a 85/1.8 too!


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Out of left field ...

Or an expression for a broader audience, and now for something completely different... Smile

How about the Asahi Takumar / Pentax SMC 120mm f2.8, which I believe was designed as a portrait lens.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just ordered the Zenitar. Thank you for the suggestion Gerald.
It seems to be a nice balance of IQ, speed, build quality, price and weight.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
I just ordered the Zenitar. Thank you for the suggestion Gerald.
It seems to be a nice balance of IQ, speed, build quality, price and weight.


Welcome Turtle I hope it will fulfill your expectations!


PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
I just ordered the Zenitar. Thank you for the suggestion Gerald.
It seems to be a nice balance of IQ, speed, build quality, price and weight.


Looking forward to hear from your experiences. Just bought a MD 2/135mm, BTW Wink. And a like-new MinAF 1.4/85mm to replace my crappy looking original, bought in 1989. Interestingly, both copies of the MinAF 1.4/85mm ("worn-out" and "like new") have an indistinguishable performance, even when pixel peeping on 43MP FF. That says quite a lot about the manufacturing quality of these lenses.

S


PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
I just ordered the Zenitar. Thank you for the suggestion Gerald.
It seems to be a nice balance of IQ, speed, build quality, price and weight.


Looking forward to hear from your experiences. Just bought a MD 2/135mm, BTW Wink. And a like-new MinAF 1.4/85mm to replace my crappy looking original, bought in 1989. Interestingly, both copies of the MinAF 1.4/85mm ("worn-out" and "like new") have an indistinguishable performance, even when pixel peeping on 43MP FF. That says quite a lot about the manufacturing quality of these lenses.

S


Yeah, Minolta made some killer lenses I’m starting to figure out.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
I just ordered the Zenitar. Thank you for the suggestion Gerald.
It seems to be a nice balance of IQ, speed, build quality, price and weight.


Please post your results once you have it - I'm quite interested! Like 1


PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions very fast portrait lens? Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
I'm looking for a very fast portrait lens because I need a very shallow DOF. Focal length somewhere in between 80 and 135mm. Canon FD 85/1.2 or Nikkor Ai 135/2 are on my mind, but I'm open to other suggestions. It has to be a good performer, not too soft wide open. Any other ideas?

The FD 85/1.2 would be my first pick, nFD is slightly sharper wide open over the SSC, but the SSC has an extra aperture blade and is a bit smoother stopped down, it's perfect for portraits, my go-to lens for that purpose.
SMC Pentax A* 85/1.4, a well known performer.
SMC Pentax K 85/1.8, I've not seen a comparison with the S-M-C Takumar 85/1.8, probably very similar, I'm still quite happy with my Super Takumar 85/1.9. All are very nice.
Topcor RE 85/1.8 is razor sharp, but rare and as expensive as the FD.
Some peeps love the Leica R 80/1.4, I wasn't all impressed with the copy I tried out in store.
Canon S 100/2 and Minolta Rokkor 100/2
Contax 85/1.4 or 85/1.2 if ya got money to burn.
Helios 40 85/1.5 if you want swirl. CZJ 75/1.5 if you want the original.
Nikkor 105/2.5


Thanks for your comments. I've had both the Pentax K 85/1.8 and the Nikkor 105/2.5. Both lenses are great, especially the Pentax. But I want slightly more speed now. The Zenitar 85/1.4 is definitely a contender, after I saw a very positive youtube review. I'm not sure about the Canon 85/1.2. I'm not sure I can justify the very high price difference for just 1 stop. The Nikkor 105/1.8 is also still on my mind. I will look into the pentax-a 85/1.8 too!


While the Zenitar looks like a capable performer at a decent price, don't rule out the Samyang 85/1.4. It is a very good lens, and slightly cheaper in MF mount than the Zenitar.

Oops! Looks like I was a little late. Oh well, for future reference then.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gerald wrote:
How about the Zenit Zenitar 85mm F1.4 that costs ~450 dollars brand new? However, I know nothing about its quality or performance.



This is a very decent lens with rather soft bokeh but interesting. I bought mine for $300 on eBay new several years ago
#1


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Since you are talking about portraits and using the lens wide open, I would strongly recommend looking at some projection lenses. Petzval types can be very nice, such as the Angenieux Type 65, 75 and 86 with interesting bokeh at the edges (tends to swirl), but there are are also double Gauss projection lenses such as the Super Cinephor from Bausch and Lomb. I'm posting a few pics from an Angenieux Type 86 100mm f1.2, and a Super Cinephor 5.25" f1.8. The Type 86 is hard to find, but the Type 75 is rather common, and in the range of 90-100mm is about f1.4. First three are the B&L, with very smooth bokeh. The last four are with the Angenieux.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kymarto wrote:
Gerald wrote:
How about the Zenit Zenitar 85mm F1.4 that costs ~450 dollars brand new? However, I know nothing about its quality or performance.



This is a very decent lens with rather soft bokeh but interesting. I bought mine for $300 on eBay new several years ago
#1


#2


#3


#4


Very Nice pictures!


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kymarto wrote:
Since you are talking about portraits and using the lens wide open, I would strongly recommend looking at some projection lenses. Petzval types can be very nice, such as the Angenieux Type 65, 75 and 86 with interesting bokeh at the edges (tends to swirl), but there are are also double Gauss projection lenses such as the Super Cinephor from Bausch and Lomb. I'm posting a few pics from an Angenieux Type 86 100mm f1.2, and a Super Cinephor 5.25" f1.8. The Type 86 is hard to find, but the Type 75 is rather common, and in the range of 90-100mm is about f1.4. First three are the B&L, with very smooth bokeh. The last four are with the Angenieux.


Amazing work and fine proof how these lenses work! I cannot more than applaud!!

***

Few of mine, all projection lenses...

A friend and surrealistic painter (Philips SK 1.5/100mm):







(Visionar 1.9/154mm):




Another friend and Paul Bocuse trained chef (PHilips SK 1.5/100mm):







PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great portraits!
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1
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