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Squeaky aluminum filter threads?
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:11 am    Post subject: Squeaky aluminum filter threads? Reply with quote
Does anyone have any tips for minimizing the "squeaking" or "chattering" sounds when attaching or removing items with aluminum filter threads?

My 500mm Vivitar has huge threads (92mm), and a thread-on lens hood and a thread-on lens cap. All are made of aluminum, and it takes about 4.5 full turns to attach/detach either one. The threads are just a touch loose, so when you turn the attachment, it "chatters" in the threads and makes one heck of a noise. Shocked The hood is especially bad, as it resonates when putting it on and makes the sound much louder.

I hesitate to oil or grease the threads, for fear of getting anything on the front lens element. My first instinct was to add a brass filter ring (no glass) and keep it permanently attached to the lens, but I haven't ever seen one in this size. I had also considered a small amount of paraffin wax...

Anyone have any suggestions? Question


PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Plumbers tape? but then you have to take it off and it would be messy.


PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aluminum threads on aluminum threads will squeak.

If one of the sets of threads were brass or stainless there would be no squeak.

Lubrication? Yes, but the lubricant is guaranteed to get on the glass so there is basically nothing to be done about it.

Jules


PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
untested idea: some Carnauba Wax on the filter/hood threads; relatively high melting point 82–86 °C (180–187 °F) helps prevent migration. Use sparingly so excess doesn't shave particles onto lens.


PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mo wrote:
Plumbers tape? but then you have to take it off and it would be messy.


Now that is thinking outside the box! Since there are no adhesives, I assume the tape would peel/shred and fall apart after a few uses... but it wouldn't be messy and you could always re-wrap it. hmmm...


siriusdogstar wrote:
untested idea: some Carnauba Wax on the filter/hood threads; relatively high melting point 82–86 °C (180–187 °F) helps prevent migration. Use sparingly so excess doesn't shave particles onto lens.


That melting point is half again higher than the paraffin wax I had thought of, so it would probably be much more stable, especially in a hot car or the like.

Any ideas where you could find pure Carnauba wax? I know it is in a lot of products, but I think it is always mixed with other things to soften it...


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Try a health food place or natural products shop...Google...with the plumbers tape I am thinking of make sure it does not seal the hood to the lens permanently Very Happy I think it's purpose is to give the best seal and no leaking at joins.....then again most lens I know don't leak anyway Laughing Do let us know what you choose in the end.


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another possibility is a spray lubricant like a spray graphite or a spray teflon (Mask the lenses of course).

I used to use a spray teflon on belts on micro-fiche machines. Works great however it all migrates sooner or later


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
mo wrote:
with the plumbers tape I am thinking of make sure it does not seal the hood to the lens permanently Very Happy I think it's purpose is to give the best seal and no leaking at joins.....then again most lens I know don't leak anyway Laughing Do let us know what you choose in the end.


If anything, I think the Teflon tape would actually help keep the parts from sticking together... and it would definitely dampen the noise. I really do think it would work, and it's a clever solution. I just don't know how well it would hold up over time. Wink

If I have problems with my lens hood leaking, I think I have bigger problems than just the noise it makes! Shocked Very Happy Maybe I could be the first person to ever use a 500mm lens under water? Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lulalake wrote:
I used to use a spray teflon on belts on micro-fiche machines. Works great however it all migrates sooner or later


Yeah, the migration (and the resulting cleanup) is the biggest thing I worry about. Sad

One potential benefit in favor of the paraffin wax is that its melting point is low enough that you could heat it with a hair dryer, and just let it drip off...


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did think plumbers tape but it is not designed to be constantly screwed and unscrewed. It would only work a couple of times.

A small amount of lithium grease on the threads would probably stop it.

I must say, that even with my OCD, a squeak when tightening up a hood doesn't bother me. You guys must have it much worse. Laughing


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Carnauba is used in cosmetics and automobile wax. On further consideration the sticky bits shaved off on mounting the hood could be a problem. Another thought was use graphite; same problem, particles.

The distinctive sound of mounting the hood alerts wildlife for quite a distance in quiet woods...the squeek of the threads and the ringing of the hood 'bell'.

Now I'm thinking clean filter and lens threads throroughly using lighter fluid and microfiber cloth/pad -- clean & oil-free for smoothest glide -- and dampen the hood 'bell' so it oesn't 'ring'.

Stretch wide thick rubber bands around the hood near the threads to dampen chatter vibrations, another at the rim to dampen the bell-like vibrations. i might even consider dipping the entire outside of the hood in that instant tool-handle plastic stuff used to soft-handle spanners & such.


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
How about old-fashioned french chalk, the sort you find in puncture kits or from art shops? Or maybe a very light rub on the threads with a candle - I always had a piece of candle in my toolbox to lubricate tools.


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
I did think plumbers tape but it is not designed to be constantly screwed and unscrewed. It would only work a couple of times.


Yep.. that's my thought too. But have you ever tried to fully remove the remains of the tape from a pipe's threads once you have screwed/unscrewed a fitting a few times? It tends to cut across the tops of the threads, and leave "strings" of the tape trapped in the grooves which are quite hard to pick out.

My thought is that if this happens with the lens threads, where just a tiny bit stays in the threads, it would still be enough to stop or dampen the aluminum-to-aluminum friction.

martinsmith99 wrote:
I must say, that even with my OCD, a squeak when tightening up a hood doesn't bother me. You guys must have it much worse. Laughing


Yes, this one is loud. Shocked It's the kind of loud high-pitched squeak that makes everyone in the room grab for their ears. Shocked Embarassed And once that first squeak hits, I can't just cover it up, because I still have another two or three turns to go until it is attached. Embarassed So far, when I take the lens places, I've just been assembling the parts in the car before I get out. Embarassed I've never heard on this bad either, I think the huge size is part of the reason for it.


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
siriusdogstar wrote:
Carnauba is used in cosmetics and automobile wax. On further consideration the sticky bits shaved off on mounting the hood could be a problem. Another thought was use graphite; same problem, particles.

Yeah, I think it has softeners, oils, and/or other chemicals in it when in the other products though... I'll have to do some more research.

My thought with the bits shaved off was to apply it to my lens cap threads, then clean off everything I could with paper towels, then thread the lens cap on and off a few times with the lens pointing down. This way, anything that shaved off would fall down (either to the ground or into the lens cap), where I could clean them up without issues.

The thought would be that most of the shaving off would happen on those first few times the threads were meshed, and so future use would have less likelihood of bits coming free.

Dunno if it would actually work that way though? Wink

siriusdogstar wrote:
The distinctive sound of mounting the hood alerts wildlife for quite a distance in quiet woods...the squeek of the threads and the ringing of the hood 'bell'.

Very good point, and probably one of the best reasons yet to find a solution to the problem. Sad I haven't done much wildlife photography with this lens yet, but it is on my short list.

siriusdogstar wrote:
Now I'm thinking clean filter and lens threads throroughly using lighter fluid and microfiber cloth/pad -- clean & oil-free for smoothest glide -- and dampen the hood 'bell' so it oesn't 'ring'.

Stretch wide thick rubber bands around the hood near the threads to dampen chatter vibrations, another at the rim to dampen the bell-like vibrations. i might even consider dipping the entire outside of the hood in that instant tool-handle plastic stuff used to soft-handle spanners & such.

Good idea on the cleaning, with no ill consequences for trying. I'll give that a shot. Wink

The rubber band idea is also a no-risk option, so I'll try it on the hood. I don't think I can do much with the lens cap though, as it's pretty thin... still somewhat heavy...

Not quite ready to coat the whole hood yet, but it sounds like a good "last resort" option. Wink


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
How about old-fashioned french chalk, the sort you find in puncture kits or from art shops?

Another good suggestion! I had to look it up, but talc (french chalk) is apparently used as a dry lubricant for all sorts of purposes. I suspect that it might be easier to clean up than graphite or other dry lubricants, which could make it a non-issue to get some on the front element occasionally.

I did read that it readily absorbs moisture though... that would probably mean that I would have to clean & re-apply it any time it was damp, as I definitely don't want moisture trapped in the threads.

peterqd wrote:
Or maybe a very light rub on the threads with a candle - I always had a piece of candle in my toolbox to lubricate tools.

We did too, that's the reason I thought of paraffin wax. Cool We used to use candles to lubricate stiff metal "snaps" on winter coats, as well as for the runners of our sleds. Inside, we used candles for the slide rails for drawers. But in all of these cases, I have never really cared about the small shavings that come off... that's the one hesitation for wax...


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
K-Y Jelly? Laughing


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
K-Y Jelly? Laughing

It was just a question of time. I thought better of you though Peter!
Laughing


PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
While I'm not sure where to find it, I have seen and used some sort
of 'dry' silicone lubricant in the past. The idea is that it does not use
any sort of liquid or solvents to carry it, so there's no residue to
collect dust and the like. I seem to recall that it's rather expensive,
but a tiny bit goes a long way.


PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Plumbers tape ( PTFE ) will shred into tiny bits when unscrewed, it's a 'once only' thing to make a screwed joint watertight, although being PTFE it does have lubricating properties.
I've done 31 years as a maintenance fitter in the water industry and use the stuff every day, and I wouldn't entertain using it on a lens adaptor thread.

It seals the thread by forcing itself between the male and female thread, and when it does that it makes the thread tight - it puts a force on the female thread that will expand a small component.

For lubricating two aluminium threads ( that's aluminum for the Americans Wink ) I would use a VERY small amount of graphite powder, of the kind that is used for lock lubricant, and after I had 'worked' the thread a few times I would wipe both components off thoroughly and just leave a trace of graphite in the base of the thread.


PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Plumbers tape ( PTFE ) will shred into tiny bits when unscrewed, it's a 'once only' thing to make a screwed joint watertight, although being PTFE it does have lubricating properties.
I've done 31 years as a maintenance fitter in the water industry and use the stuff every day, and I wouldn't entertain using it on a lens adaptor thread.

Thanks for your expertize! Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
peterqd wrote:
K-Y Jelly? Laughing

It was just a question of time. I thought better of you though Peter!
Laughing

Embarassed


PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So I tried the plumbers tape last night, and have two things to report:
1) It did in fact work! Very Happy
2) It came apart, just as we had thought it would. Sad


I wrapped the tape around the lens cap threads twice, and then threaded it onto the lens. While it was on, I tore off the portion of the tape that hung out between the two parts, and then I removed the lens cap and removed the portion hanging over that side of the threads. The inner part came off easily, as the last thread of the lens cap had "cut" the tape. This left me with just a thin strip of the tape covering only the threads of the lens cap.

It seemed to be holding together, so I gave it a durability test. I was able to put the lens cap on and take it back off a total of 5 times before the tape loosened up and came off the threads. There was not a single squeak to be heard. Very Happy


So yeah, it "works", but it isn't quite practical for regular repeated use. It *might* make a good *temporary* solution though. For example, if I was going out to a field with wildlife, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to put this tape on right before the outing, as it would at least hold up for a few cycles. It also removed easily & completely, so it is a nice no-risk option. Cool


I will keep investigating the alternatives posted here...


PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This has reminded of the substance I use on my bicycle chain -- a Teflon-based liquid lubricant that dries and does not become powdery. My bottle is "Finish Line" brand, "High Tech Dry Formula -- Teflon and Trilinium" Bought many years ago my 2oz. bottle is still over half full; doesn't take much!


PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
siriusdogstar wrote:
This has reminded of the substance I use on my bicycle chain -- a Teflon-based liquid lubricant that dries and does not become powdery. My bottle is "Finish Line" brand, "High Tech Dry Formula -- Teflon and Trilinium" Bought many years ago my 2oz. bottle is still over half full; doesn't take much!


You can also find it at the hardware store called Dry Lube.


PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the tip! I worry just a bit though about some of the more exotic lubricants... especially the ones that are designed to be penetrating as well. If they do what they're advertised to do, you end up with a slippery film over everything that doesn't come off. Shocked Not quite what I want on a lens. Wink

I haven't had a chance to test anything else yet, but I will probably work my way down the list in order of least to most risky. I think I would even prefer an inconvenient option over a convenient one, if it had less possibility of complications. Cool
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