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Sony A7 for $912 or Sony A7II for $1425
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Home Digital Rangefinder / Viewfinder Cameras  Sony-NEX
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
Servus Kuuan,
According to what I read on other forums, the AF with EOS lens can be very slow or even uneffective with some lenses.
My feeling is that then buying an EOS lens could be a bet.

Guat net goat. na kloaa!


Servus Memetph,

yes, I think that you are right. The Minolta AF lenses with the Sony adapter should do better. Just checked prices of Minolta AF 1.4/50 and 1.4/85mm lenses ( there seems to be no slower 85mm Minolta AF lens? ) two lenses that I'd be curious about with AF on the FF, but they aren't cheap. Either will try to score one of the other, or else sell the adapter.

olles kloa, echt guat und wundaboa Wink


PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
mo wrote:
I would say the deadline is real,it would cover the boxing day sale time period.There may be only one or two items in stock...you know drumming up business for the crazy sales. But that's me being skeptical of sales practices over here.


indeed! now on the 29th I'd have to pay about 1370 instead of 985, and that NOT including the kit lens. phooa, if adding the kit lens I'd have to pay 1799.- + shipping, or nearly double the price I paid yesterday Shocked


PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A sad reflection of our sales techniques. I am glad you got in early Cool Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sadly, no such sales technique here in Europe, so we have to pay around 1050 Euros for body only regardless whether before or after Dec. 29 Wink


PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steve Huff about the A7 II:
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/12/27/the-sony-a7ii-real-world-camera-review-my-camera-of-the-year-2014/

"I will go ahead and say it…I have been reviewing cameras for 7 years. This Sony A7II is the most versatile, fantastic, useful and all around best priced for what you get camera I have ever reviewed. Bam!" Wink


PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laughing Steve Huff is at his best in used car salesman role. Even here, the cheapest A7 body only I see is around 950 Euro, the cheapest A7 II is 1700 Euros. So that's around 750 Euros for IBIS and slightly better button placement. So one can argue "fantastic", "versatile" and "useful", but "best priced" is BAMM indeed ... as in facepalm BAMM Laughing


PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, but it is interesting how he put the A7S above the A7/A7R. And then puts the A7 II before the A7S Wink
And there is more than IBIS and buttons who is different. A7 II is a completly new camera, very different from A7.

- Better screen (higher res, and tilts better)
- Better grip
- Better AF
- Better app support
- Better finish
- Better mount (stronger)
- Better IQ (colors and more pop)
- Better video (XAVC S Video and S-Log2)
- More quiet shutter
- Faster startup

So there is alot more than buttons and IBIS... And the buttons are not slightly better, they are much better combined with the bigger grip (I couldn`t use the A7R without the $300 batterygrip). So is the A7 II worth the extra 750 euro? I think so, but if you don`t like spending that much or can`t, buy the A7 which is a great camera for less.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If I had bought the A7II instead of the A7, both with kit lens for the price of the sale expired 2 days ago, the Mark II would have cost me 450 to 500 usd more. I am sure that it's improvements are real, but some comments in videos pointing out the difference in size and weight made me think that the smaller A7 might fit me even better. It was the special sale that made me 'rush' buying my first FF, the cheaper option felt smarter, arguably it wasn't Wink
For now just hoping that I shall receive it!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
received a mail from the store saying that the regret to inform me that they are temporarily out of stock of my ordered camera, and that, because of "Sony delay", yeah their wording tries to blame Sony Wink, they expect to get new cameras between middle and end of January only, and that it will ship thereafter. Now, what a surprise Wink
They ask me to either accept the 'back order' or to 'cancel' it. I answered, that, to accept the backorder, I'd need them to give me a definite last day of shipment and a guarantee that I still could cancel and get full money back in case that it won't be met.

Last edited by kuuan on Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Yes, but it is interesting how he put the A7S above the A7/A7R. And then puts the A7 II before the A7S Wink
And there is more than IBIS and buttons who is different. A7 II is a completly new camera, very different from A7.

- Better screen (higher res, and tilts better)
- Better grip
- Better AF
- Better app support
- Better finish
- Better mount (stronger)
- Better IQ (colors and more pop)
- Better video (XAVC S Video and S-Log2)
- More quiet shutter
- Faster startup

So there is alot more than buttons and IBIS... And the buttons are not slightly better, they are much better combined with the bigger grip (I couldn`t use the A7R without the $300 batterygrip). So is the A7 II worth the extra 750 euro? I think so, but if you don`t like spending that much or can`t, buy the A7 which is a great camera for less.


That's a useful list. Personally, I think that it's still not even close to 750 Euro difference, which is 300 Euros more than I paid for Oly E-P5, for instance. On the other hand, I like IBIS, I have enough toys to shoot with now, and A7II looks like a camera that I can use for a very looooooong time. So I would rather get A7 II in a year, when the price drops to current A7 levels. But if someone wants/needs to buy now, IMHO A7 is a much better deal.

In a year Steve Huff will, of course, write that A7 II is completely blown away by A7s II and/or A7III Wink


PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The A7 II might become dated in a few months already because the "old" sensor. It is some kind of a "semi-transitional" model before the new stuff comes out.

The D750 has a new 24MP Sony sensor which has better video and lower noise, they should have put that in there. Just adding a better video codec will not make a big difference if it is still line-skipping. Maybe they feared it could make it closer to the A7s.

Right now I am more inclined to save up for the A7s (there should be a price drop on this one as well soon) because it has the silent shutter, and at night it has a cleaner viewfinder image with better AF. I am mostly trying to capture moments though were higher shutter speeds or more DOF at closer distances are preferable. For landscapes the A7 II is a clear improvement.


One thing I fear though is reliability issues with the Steadyshot (they are known to fail on the sturdier A-mount cameras as well although only after a fair amount of time). One probably needs to treat this carefully I really don't think it would survive the amount of abuse that a DSLR can easily take and the repair bill could be big.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sad to hear that Kuuan,I hope it works out in your favour which ever way it turns out. I just don't trust the online sales practices over here.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Yes, but it is interesting how he put the A7S above the A7/A7R. And then puts the A7 II before the A7S Wink
And there is more than IBIS and buttons who is different. A7 II is a completly new camera, very different from A7.

- Better screen (higher res, and tilts better)
- Better grip
- Better AF
- Better app support
- Better finish
- Better mount (stronger)
- Better IQ (colors and more pop)
- Better video (XAVC S Video and S-Log2)
- More quiet shutter
- Faster startup

So there is alot more than buttons and IBIS... And the buttons are not slightly better, they are much better combined with the bigger grip (I couldn`t use the A7R without the $300 batterygrip). So is the A7 II worth the extra 750 euro? I think so, but if you don`t like spending that much or can`t, buy the A7 which is a great camera for less.

this list of "better "is impressive . It has in my opinion more a rhetoric effect than a real one.
Some of those better are not important or almost not noticable as you can see in the first reviews.
The stabilization is a real impriovement which counts and which is not subject to discussion. But it comes to a price and makes the camera heavier.
700 $ is a big difference and the A7 is a graet deal, in my opinion.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
mo wrote:
Sad to hear that Kuuan,I hope it works out in your favour which ever way it turns out. I just don't trust the online sales practices over here.


thank's Mo, I am quite confident. Reading the complaints of Australian customers I already have been expecting that exactly this will be happening, therefore no disappointments so far. I shall arrive in Australia second half of January only, so far the expected delivery time fits me perfectly well.

btw. recently I have been reading various threads at dpreview of users preferring the smaller size and lighter weight of e.g. the Alpha 6000 as compared to that of the A7 and of some that are not happy with the A7II being bigger and heavier than the A7. So far the opinions that the FF camera should or could be heftier have been dominating, the design of the A7II is a clear indication that Sony seems to listen to customers reports.
Now I am very happy that lately users publicly point out that the small size and little weight had been the prime reason to switch to Sony / mirrorless in the first place, and that therefore the A7II doesn't cut it for them. I hope these voices be loud enough, that Sony will listen again and soon will offer a second FF line, besides the 'A7II body line', that will be markedly smaller. The original A7 line would fall in between, the new, smaller cameras would ideal be for me.
For now looking forward to get the A7. It was above all this video comparing it to the A7II that dipped my favor to the smaller. lighter and cheaper A7, price difference was the other, most decisive point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDAFFjINx60


PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
long due update about my online purchase at camerastore.com.au

soon after buying and paying for a Sony A7 with bundled kit lens on December 28th 2014 I had received a note saying that they are out of stock and that they shall be delivered between middle and end of January.

By the end of January I had not received any further notice nor the items bought, I then had contacted asking for an update on delivery dates.
It has been a long process, but after many emails during which a refund had been offered repeatedly which I repeatedly had not accepted, and quite a few calls finally a camera had arrived but not the lens! The camera obviously had been handled before, the factory seal on the box had been broken. After a few more calls and mails it was agreed that I'd return the camera in exchange for a factory sealed one which was promised to me on phone ( I recorded these calls ) would be sent to me within 24 hours of receiving the back camera and it was promised that the lens will follow before the end of the month, exact dates were given.

Once the camera was back at the store I received an email confirming the safe arrival and that it had been 'that' good that it immediately was sold to another customer. I was then prompted to accept a refund.

In my answer again I made clear, as I had done numerous times before, that I did not want to cancel my order, no refund. Soon an email from paypal notified me of money having been sent to me by a 'Daimond Nominees', earlier I had noted that the person I had correspondence with sometimes wrote an email using a 'camerastore' email, at other times a 'Daimondscamera' email.

Once again I wrote to camerastore that I did not intend to cancel my order, that I won't accept a refund but that I want the camera as bought!
The same person I have been dealing with, the only person which seems to be reachable by any email and telephone number given by 'camerastore', than called me and said that he has done everything he could and that he is not able to supply the items bought any time soon. After me confirming once again that I still want the items as bought he went on, knowing that my time in Australia is limited, promising that he would notify me when they arrive and could be sent to me, and continued that from now on he won't answer any email or call from me..

hm..
well, if I had known earlier I better had kept the camera, hoping to get a lens any time later. As it is I filed a complaint with an 'Australian Consumer Commission' but from what I read at their site the only help that most likely I shall receive is a reference to layers that I could use to file a case against the shop.

now accepting the paypal payment would be the easiest way out. However I hate being taken for a ride like this and would hate to back down.

any recommendation? any Australian that could advice me which was the best course of action? Is there any counsel in Australia helping consumers in such a case?

cheers,
andreas


PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kuuan you have done your best,most simple cases become long drawn out affairs ...hoping you will give up and go away. This is Australia at its worst when it comes to buying things or even getting service from major companies...why its like this I will never know.

I think the ACC is your last option and you have already done that. Sad All you can do is put the complaint in our bad sellers area on the forum and hope others will see it.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
thank's Mo.

I take it as a learning experience. I was fooled, have been lied to in cheering tones and thinking that I could and should get a camera and lens as bought in the end, had been foolish myself. Keeping the camera, which most likely was alright, would have been more clever, even without receiving the lens. Now I know better and best, as you advice, give up and go away. Not easy for me, but by way of cultural adaptation I'll try Wink

When I filed the complaint at that council I still thought that it should be more easy to claim and had not found any other way. I am surprised that 'shops' like the one I have been dealing with can operate. Customer protection and having channels helping to exercise them don't look like Australian 'fortes' Wink


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:
thank's Mo.

I take it as a learning experience. I was fooled, have been lied to in cheering tones and thinking that I could and should get a camera and lens as bought in the end, had been foolish myself. Keeping the camera, which most likely was alright, would have been more clever, even without receiving the lens. Now I know better and best, as you advice, give up and go away. Not easy for me, but by way of cultural adaptation I'll try Wink

When I filed the complaint at that council I still thought that it should be more easy to claim and had not found any other way. I am surprised that 'shops' like the one I have been dealing with can operate. Customer protection and having channels helping to exercise them don't look like Australian 'fortes' Wink

Servus Kuuan,
Australia , Austria .... it is an old stupid joke. I am sorry for you. But A7 are becoming affordable now everywhere. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1, bad luck and quite a story!

Go for another, you will enjoy the A7 for sure Wink


PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:

Servus Kuuan,
Australia , Austria .... it is an old stupid joke. I am sorry for you. But A7 are becoming affordable now everywhere. Wink


servus Memeth,
haha, traveling, whenever I am asked where I was from and say Austria, most usually people understand that I was from Australia. Whenever I do bother to explain I just say: " no Kanguroo" Wink

well yes, but just think, my price was 700 Euro including the kit lens and a free adapter from Sony via redemption. Now this is not easily matched anywhere still, or is it?


PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
+1, bad luck and quite a story!

Go for another, you will enjoy the A7 for sure Wink


you wouldn't believe the finer details of this story! Blatant lies and false promises, all in the most friendly and collegial tones.
Sure I'd enjoy the A7 and I shall check good deals, but then again I am in no hurry and my ideal camera would be somewhat different, FF in a smaller body wiith articulating EVF.
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