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Sony A7 and RF wides: a possible solution.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Interesting indeed. I will consider to modify my A7 II as well.

The service is not available for the A7 II. The IBIS is probably problematic for sensor stack hacking.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Interesting indeed. I will consider to modify my A7 II as well. It looks like performance of native lenses drop slightly, but not nearly as much as the RF lenses improves. It is better to mess with a camera than messing with old nice lenses.

I wonder how much the mod would have improved the 20mm Russar LTM Surprised


I believe any lens designed for film will be better on the A7M, compared to any Sony FF. How much will depend on various factors. The mod is not yet available for A7II, but it may be in 6 months.

With used A7 bodies so cheap, and life so short, one could ask, why wait? This is a "bird in the hand" Smile

28 cron 5.6

DSC00357 by unoh7, on Flickr


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RnR wrote:
Nordentro wrote:
Interesting indeed. I will consider to modify my A7 II as well.

The service is not available for the A7 II. The IBIS is probably problematic for sensor stack hacking.


They just don't have one yet.

The whole thing got started because one guy let Kolari have his A7 to play with for quite some time. AF works fine. I doubt IBIS will be effected, but who knows? You might be right, but I'd be surprised. They will probably claim it's harder and charge an extra hundred Smile


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uhoh7 wrote:
They just don't have one yet.

The whole thing got started because one guy let Kolari have his A7 to play with for quite some time. AF works fine. I doubt IBIS will be effected, but who knows? You might be right, but I'd be surprised. They will probably claim it's harder and charge an extra hundred Smile

I think you are right, its just a matter of time. I just saw that Kolari Vision offers some of their services for Olympus models that has IBIS. So at least they have experience in that area.

Just a quick question... you think the mod is overkill for a A7s? From my understanding the A7s already works nicely with most (all?) rangefinder glass. 12mp is fine for me, and I kinda like the silent shutter option with the incredible low light performance.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RnR wrote:
uhoh7 wrote:
They just don't have one yet.

The whole thing got started because one guy let Kolari have his A7 to play with for quite some time. AF works fine. I doubt IBIS will be effected, but who knows? You might be right, but I'd be surprised. They will probably claim it's harder and charge an extra hundred Smile

I think you are right, its just a matter of time. I just saw that Kolari Vision offers some of their services for Olympus models that has IBIS. So at least they have experience in that area.

Just a quick question... you think the mod is overkill for a A7s? From my understanding the A7s already works nicely with most (all?) rangefinder glass. 12mp is fine for me, and I kinda like the silent shutter option with the incredible low light performance.


A7s suffers from smearing on all these lenses. ZM18, SEM 21, 28cron and zm35/2, at infinity.

Which is not to say you should send it in, that would be a person call. Since it's the best stock, we have have to think it would be the best with the mod.

The S has the same thick stack, but the pixels are so big it's better than the others.

So far I have not seen a report on the S with the mod. Smile


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is ZM 18 at f/8 inifnity. Hair on sensor confirms vivek's prediction we will see more dust Smile

DSC00251 by unoh7, on Flickr

Yes, colorcast. This lens must be coded as 21/2.8 pre-asph to shoot clean on M9.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Uhoh7, can you post a sample with the altered colour code please. Cool


PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The result of the modification looks pretty good to me. I might recommend my friend send his camera for modification when he started buying more RF lenses. Smile


PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is the SEM21 wide open at f/3.4

DSC00375 by unoh7, on Flickr

This lens was sold even by A7s owners prior to A7m because of poor performance, despite fact it's incredible lens. It is now better WO on A7M than at f/11 on A7s

here "real" shots with it today:

DSC00534 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC00590 by unoh7, on Flickr

For me, so far, the thin sensor CG mod is well worth the money. Smile

My next most improved lens is the 28 cron. The ZM35/2 is also alot better but maybe a step down from the other two.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, I had a short weather break and managed to get some shots with two lenses I consider "worst case", the tiny CV 21 and 35 Skopars. I had no expectations, but I thought I might as well see what they would do.

Since there is big copy variation and many of these lenses are decentered, not to mention the variable of adapters, these should not be seen as definitive, but these lenses can at least do this well.


a7M_CV21_11 by unoh7, on Flickr


a7M_CV21_8 by unoh7, on Flickr


a7M_CV35_56 by unoh7, on Flickr


a7M_CV35_8 by unoh7, on Flickr

For me, these lenses were totally unusable with heavy smearing at all apertures with infinity shots like this on the A7 and A7r. Here a close look will reveal considerable strangeness, but I'd say they are way better. I would not use them, I don't even use them on the M9, although they are much better than this with that camera.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Have you noticed much improvement when you coded the ZM 18 mm? Did it remove the colour cast much?


PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The CV 35 seems to work properly but it can be a good sample. We have not seen the results before. Mine is terrible on the A7.
For the other lenses, it might be better than before the modification but not convincing in my opinion.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyrano wrote:
Have you noticed much improvement when you coded the ZM 18 mm? Did it remove the colour cast much?


There really is no way to code the ZM18 for the A7 if you shoot raw, like you do with the M9. Instead, you apply corrections in lightroom with simple presets you make with the lens.

I have not got to that yet. The main story, is the smearing is basically gone. The lens seems to perform very well.

As to what is "convincing"....the mod makes a huge difference in smearing for RF wides and make some, like the 28 cron and SEM21, really great on the A7. Since we are closer to the specs of a film plane, all film lenses will perform better. These are facts.

The question of whether it is worth it to a given shooter, that's an individual question. For me it's a no brainer.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What is convincing ?
The main problem with RF WA on A7 is colour shift and corner smearing.
The Summicron 28 is supposed to be a exceptional lens on a Leica body.
I would like to see one picture that show clearly that those problems disappeared'with good corner sharpness with this lens for example.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A test shot from the canon nFD 24/2:


DSC02324 by unoh7, on Flickr

This around f/8 , below WO:

DSC02309 by unoh7, on Flickr

f/4:

DSC02319 by unoh7, on Flickr
and f/11:

DSC02311 by unoh7, on Flickr


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
M-rokkor 40/2 aka 40cron I find considerably cleaner:


DSC02268 by unoh7, on Flickr

note left edge and corners


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uhoh7 wrote:
A test shot from the canon nFD 24/2:


Interesting, is there an improvement with SLR wide-angles too? Surprised


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sadly, most of my ultrawide lenses (less than 24mm) don't fit on my a850, such as my Konica 4/21, LOMO OKS1-18-12.8/18, Tokina 3.5/17 and Sigma 3.5/18. However, I do have the Tokina 3.5-4.5/20-35 (original version) and that is very good indeed on FF with no corner issues at all. This was at f8, 20mm setting:



I don't know if the a850's 24mp FF sensor is similar to the A7, but I suspect this Tokina will work great on the A7 too.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
uhoh7 wrote:
A test shot from the canon nFD 24/2:


Interesting, is there an improvement with SLR wide-angles too? Surprised


Few if any SLR wides reach their potential on the stock A7 series, and this is why the 1635 has been such a relief for many. My Kiron 28/2 was not great, and the above nFD was also uninspiring. I need to get the Kiron out and try it: I have a bunch of shots with that lens "before", to compare.

test snap CV 35/1.4 f/8:


DSC02338 by unoh7, on Flickr

wide open sample:

DSC02347 by unoh7, on Flickr

@Ian that tokina looks pretty even across the frame, though I would have to see a full to really tell. The A850 a superb camera Smile


PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
one more with nFD 24/2 which shows how the lens has come alive:

Bridge in to Blue by unoh7, on Flickr

I believe you would see similar performance at f/8 with many of the SLR 24/2.8s

If I had any SLR adapters which hit infinity stop, I would really be happy LOL


PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have selected some SLR WA fo their quality . Canon FDn 20 2.8 , Pentax SMC K 28 3.5 , Rokkor MD 28 3.5. None of them suffers from colour shift or corner smearing .
The Rokor 40 mm (summicron) is supposed to work properly with the A7 and my CV 40 1.4 does.

This modification was made to try to let RF WA work with a A7. You say now that it gives also better results with non RF lenses or lenses wich do not suffer from those problems. It would make the Sony a better camera.
I am really interested to see real comparisons Hopefully someone will publish such a test.

Last edited by memetph on Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Tokina 20-35 is very nice, shoot it at f8-f11 for landscapes and you have no worries. I just mention it as it's one lens that is quite common and pretty cheap but outperforms most legacy UWs; it's not big or heavy either, so should be useful on an A7; I can use mine on a NEX with a A-NEX adapter that has aperture control, so don't see why it wouldn't work well on a FF NEX.

I don't know if I can upload a full res file, but I'll try:



If you pixel peep that image, you'll see it's sharp everywhere and the one visible flaw is the CA on highlights. I didn't do anything to correct this, I suspect ACR would remove most of it. I haven't seen any images from this lens where CA was much of an issue, it's usually pretty well controlled.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
I have selected some SLR WA fo their quality . Canon FDn 20 2.8 , Pentax SMC K 28 3.5 , Rokkor MD 28 3.5. None of them suffers from colour shift or corner smearing .
The Rokor 40 mm (summicron) is supposed to work properly with the A7 and my CV 40 1.4 does.

This modification was made to try to let RF WA work with a A7. You say now that it gives also better results with non RF lenses or lenses wich do not suffer from those problems. It would make the Sony a better camera.
I am really interested to see real comparisons Hopefully someone will publish such a test.


I have nFD 20/2.8

I will try to get some shots with it in the next few days. I will be surprised if does not improve visibly.

CV 35/1.4 WO:

Blue Machine by unoh7, on Flickr

Mounted on my old R

DSC05779-2 by unoh7, on Flickr

This was the best compact RF 35 for the stock A7r, a real surprise:

cv 35/1.4 by unoh7, A7r CV 35/1.4 WO

Of course the CV 35/1.2 is much better, but very big and heavy.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a shame that the a7 series struggles with wide lenses, I sold mine fairly quickly. To be honest though, there aren't many truly great old wides out there anyway (particularly at wider apertures). I know it goes against the spirit of this forum, but I have a Fujifilm X-E2 with its small small native primes that are stunning, and other options like Samyang 12/2 which are great too. Just wish I had time to go out and shoot with it Laughing

P.s. Ian - I have the second version of the Tokina 20-35/3.5-4.5 AF lens for my Canon EOS 6D and the lens performs well across the frame. It never reaches the sharpness seen by primes in the centre (Flek 20/2.8 for example), but is far better at the edges/corners.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kiron 28/2 @ f/2


DSC02457 by unoh7, on Flickr

nFD 20/2.8 @f/2.8

DSC02453 by unoh7, on Flickr
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