Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!

SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Sonnetar
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we see some pictures from the lens? Sounds like an interesting find.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mo wrote:
This is an unusual lens that many of us may never get to see or use ourselves.


Indeed, it is a unique lens, and all innovation that tries to bring something new to the tool box should be welcomed.

Enough of bashing the lens before it's even surfaced, let's instead, look forward to seeing how it actually does perform when it's available.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So are we getting images any time soon? I, for one, perfectly see where Gerald is coming from and expect a poor technical performance from this lens.

On the other hand, technical imperfections do not mean that the lens can not be enjoyed. One of my favorite lenses has very obvious flaws. So I see that side of an argument as well.

The proof of a pudding is in the eating. So let's see what this lens really can do in practical terms.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fermy wrote:
So are we getting images any time soon?


Yes!


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did clean thread with my best knowledge, if you still find any disrespectful part , please let me to know, I will delete it. Gerald got 2 weeks ban as well deserved 'gift' for lack of his social emotion level.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to try this lens but it is far over my budget...

P.S. MS-Optical made a small batch of this lens in chrome for Hong Kong market.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking forward to seeing some images - the lens looks like a lot of fun. As a side note, I like the idea of supporting small businesses / individuals like Miyazaki. It can be hard competing with the big companies.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lens is not new. It's been around for a couple of years. There are over 700 pictures on Flickr. Charlie gives a link in his first post.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a shame Gerald didn't look at some samples from this lens, then he'd see it performs very well:

http://www.japancamerahunter.com/2012/09/ms-optical-sonnetar-50mm-f1-1-test-pictures/

Quote:
I think Miyazaki san has done it again. He has come up with a quirky and interesting lens that, whilst not for everyone, is going to make certain shooters very happy. The colour rendering is very good and the aberration is much less than I would have expected.


The optimum aperture for bokeh looks to be 1.6-2 so I won't see much advantage over my old 1.5 Sonnars.

Sure is a pretty looking lens though.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fermy wrote:
So are we getting images any time soon? I, for one, perfectly see where Gerald is coming from and expect a poor technical performance from this lens...


Yes and no.
He compares the lens partly with old RF lens designs, or with SLR lens designs which are optimized for maximum sharpness/contrast, good distortion. A 50mm lens for mirrorless is much easier to make, cause there is no mirror.

I have the pleasure to work as optical engineer with a high-end optical design program with a big lens patent database, and some lens design literature and workshops as background. As mentioned I would first go a different route (Petzval oder Double Gauss Type) for such a lens. But from my lens design beginners point of view I would not state a lens is worthless cause it has only 5 lenses for a 50mm/1.1 - partly because I do not know the purpose of that particular lens design. Likely it is not intended as an Otus replacement for RF cameras.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TY so much Attila Smile

I will post samples in this thread as soon as I have a chance to shoot it, within a week I hope Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you get the chance, do a few comparison shots with your Sonnar 1.5/50 too.

The Miyazaki-San lens that really interests me is the tiny Perar 4/24, turn a Leica into a point n shoot! Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uhoh7 wrote:
TY so much Attila Smile

I will post samples in this thread as soon as I have a chance to shoot it, within a week I hope Smile


Here endeth the debate.
No need for thanking IMO, there are no winners or losers.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look forward your excellent images, rare opportunity to see them , thank you!


PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uhoh7 wrote:
TY so much Attila Smile


So now we have the ridiculous position where we find 8 posts which make reference to Gerald before Gerald actually makes an appearance in the thread! You yourself give Gerald a "good kicking" - metaphorically of course. That's the nature of debate -sometimes. However those of us who were late to this thread - I caught a brief glimpse of Gerald's contributions before they were removed - are not in a position to judge whether your criticisms are justified or not. Are you not embarrassed by this situation?


PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sichko wrote:
uhoh7 wrote:
TY so much Attila Smile


So now we have the ridiculous position where we find 8 posts which make reference to Gerald before Gerald actually makes an appearance in the thread! You yourself give Gerald a "good kicking" - metaphorically of course. That's the nature of debate -sometimes. However those of us who were late to this thread - I caught a brief glimpse of Gerald's contributions before they were removed - are not in a position to judge whether your criticisms are justified or not. Are you not embarrassed by this situation?

Just ignore anything i say about him that's left. Smile

I don't carry grudges anyway, but I'm not too keen on taunting trolling from anyone. I much prefer genial discussion, and you won't find me attacking respectful people whether they may disagree with me or not.

Photo forums run the gamut, from the incredibly rude behavior at DPreview, to the very genial atmosphere at the FM ALT forum. RFF can be a bit rough, but it's an indispensable reference. Most of us want a friendly atmosphere with alot of sharing, humor, with underlying support in spite of differences in taste.

This forum does not love high priced lenses, and some members really don't love Leica, but that's OK and I think that attitude is evolving a bit as the the prices for the M9 drop and we see the M glass at it's best more often.

Many really loved the 75 Summilux images, even though it's a Leica, and one that was going for 1500 in 2000, but 3500 now. G, however, attacked that lens from the start and implied I was pretty stupid to have bought it. You can read that thread and get a taste of our battle here.

Certainly, as I've noted from the beginning, the Sonnetar is going to be a wild one, and it's probable limitations are denied by no one. It's patently obvious that "perfection" in super-speed glass means something huge, which in itself is a terrible limitation. The weight of the incredible .95 Noctilux is a giant downside. The Sonnetar looks to be an anti-noctilux Smile It's not huge, not aspherical, not modern in configuration (except glass and coatings), and it certainly won't be "perfect" Smile It also happens to be one tenth the price of the Noctilux.

All these things were a "given", but G felt a crusade was in order, as if no one understood a thing, and I was being sucked in by Japanese con-artists. G assumed I was an idiot, and I took that as license to expose his bottomless naiveté in the history of manual focus lenses; diagrams he googled, nonwithstanding. My apologies to everyone, sans G.

Whatever. That's all pretty boring, but you brought it up.

I don't think the Sonnetar will be boring. Shocking possibly, but not boring Smile

Nikkor RF 5cm 50/1.4 (1954) wide open (a very close relative of the sonnetar)

DSC02274 by unoh7, on Flickr
above on A7r below on Nex5

DSC01279-1-2 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC00605-1 by unoh7, on Flickr

Yes G knew everything about sonnars, except I don't think he ever shot any of the RF 50s which made the name famous. What do you call someone who tears apart a lens or camera he has never shot? Paper tiger, maybe. Smile Annoying, certainly, at least to those who've paid some dues trying to learn them.

L1007325 by unoh7, Nikkor on the M9 WO
Love it or hate it, there's nothing in the world the same as this sonnar, and I'm sure the same will be true of the Sonnetar. Very little PP there.

BTW this was the first f/1.4 lens.

DSC05544 by unoh7, on Flickr

and the build of the sonnetar is very much styled like the Nikkor. Huge numbers were made. Possibly 200,000, mostly Nikon RF mount, but quite a few in LTM, and Contax RF.

Most know the nikon mount was supposed to be an exact copy of the Contax mount, but errors made them different. 35s and wider will work fine on either.

Lastly, my 1937 sonnar on a red-dial Contax 3a

DSC00189-1 by unoh7, on Flickr
The first truly great fast 50. Smile


Last edited by uhoh7 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

very nice images, I like them and good examples.

Agree about spiteful comments, it is not needed here Wink Fine with discussions of course
but it shoudl be done in a resopectful manner between adults; fanboys go elsewhere please Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess What?


Untitled by unoh7, on Flickr

Some comment on the build: it seems outstanding.

The lens can take filters three ways, with exterior threads, interior threads and threads at the front of the hood. The M9 can only go to 4000, so for some of these shots there is a new 3 stop ND filter, reversed and screwed to the exterior threads, then the hood screws to the exposed threads of the 55 filter. You see the hood and filter in the foreground above, ready to screw on the external threads of the lens.

Caps are unusual: both screw over the elements. Rear cap is tiny and covers element only. Front cap came screwed to reversed hood, which was screwed to from of lens.

Stopless aperture is reverse of normal direction. Many blades, very smooth and heavy to turn. Focus is a bit lighter but well dampened. There is a small knob like the CV skopars. The entire lens turns with focus. Coma adjustment, I left as it came. This is also very dampened. Overall this is a very compact lens.

These are preliminary samples with mild PP which show performance at one coma setting only.

one of my first shots, WO of course:

L1027340 by unoh7, on Flickr

ND filter attached:

L1027359 by unoh7, on Flickr


L1027348 by unoh7, WO


L1027347 by unoh7, on Flickr

WO it def gets the glowy old school look going

L1027374 by unoh7, on Flickr


L1027393 by unoh7, on Flickr


L1027406 by unoh7, on Flickr

Let's start with these Smile Every shot above is at f/1.1


PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grrrrrrrrreat!
I love Your point of view, Your pictures, Your Sonntar!
Thanks for sharing.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to start asking "When will the lens arrive?" yesterday Smile

Thank you for the first images!
Looks like not a MTF wise "perfect" lens like the Otus 55, but a good tool with extreme speed and very lightweight.
I love non "perfect" lenses Smile


PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt about it - that Sonnetar fits perfectly into the evolutionary line of Sonnars. In fact, it renders just like a 1930s Sonnar 1.5/50 to my eyes, a little softer due to being 1.1 rather than 1.5 but the character is very very similar so I like it. The price is not bad at all either, considering how much a ZM Sonnar 1.5/50 costs new.

Bernhard, you should look for a 1960s or 1950s Jupiter-3 1.5/50, which is a copy of the Sonnar 1.5/50. I have one as well as an original Sonnar and the J3 is every bit as good. The Sonnar cost me 45ukp, the J3 cost me 45ukp with a beautiful Kiev IV with it.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:

Bernhard, you should look for a 1960s or 1950s Jupiter-3 1.5/50, which is a copy of the Sonnar 1.5/50. I have one as well as an original Sonnar and the J3 is every bit as good. The Sonnar cost me 45ukp, the J3 cost me 45ukp with a beautiful Kiev IV with it.


+1 for the J3, I got one (ltm, 1964, red P) in Russia this autumn, and it really works great if you're after that particular vintage sonnar look.

Samples from the sonnetar look indeed very good, and the little thing itself looks beautiful.
Time for samples showing the effect of the coma correction now :wink: