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meanwhile
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 225 Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-11-28
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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meanwhile wrote:
Can we see some pictures from the lens? Sounds like an interesting find. _________________ In my bag: Sony A7II - Olympus OM 21mm f/3.5 - Minolta M-Rokkor 40mm f/2.0 - Konica Hexanon 57mm f/1.2 AR - Olympus Zuiko OM 100mm f/2.8 - Pentax 135mm f/3.5 |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:11 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
mo wrote: |
This is an unusual lens that many of us may never get to see or use ourselves. |
Indeed, it is a unique lens, and all innovation that tries to bring something new to the tool box should be welcomed.
Enough of bashing the lens before it's even surfaced, let's instead, look forward to seeing how it actually does perform when it's available. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 2877
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
So are we getting images any time soon? I, for one, perfectly see where Gerald is coming from and expect a poor technical performance from this lens.
On the other hand, technical imperfections do not mean that the lens can not be enjoyed. One of my favorite lenses has very obvious flaws. So I see that side of an argument as well.
The proof of a pudding is in the eating. So let's see what this lens really can do in practical terms. _________________ Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
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exaklaus
Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 1633 Location: Niederrhein, Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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exaklaus wrote:
fermy wrote: |
So are we getting images any time soon? |
Yes! _________________ my Ebay auctions
Canon 5D II,
Fuji GW690III, Fuji G617, Fujifilm X-E1
Bessaflex TM
Tachihara 4"x5"
Summilux-R 1:1,4/50
Canon FD 85mm 1:1,2
Color-Heliar 75mm F2.5 SL
www.autoselbstfotografie.de
www.classic-cameras-and-lenses.de |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57840 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
I did clean thread with my best knowledge, if you still find any disrespectful part , please let me to know, I will delete it. Gerald got 2 weeks ban as well deserved 'gift' for lack of his social emotion level. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7547 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
I would like to try this lens but it is far over my budget...
P.S. MS-Optical made a small batch of this lens in chrome for Hong Kong market. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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edz
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 Posts: 82 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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edz wrote:
Looking forward to seeing some images - the lens looks like a lot of fun. As a side note, I like the idea of supporting small businesses / individuals like Miyazaki. It can be hard competing with the big companies. |
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
The lens is not new. It's been around for a couple of years. There are over 700 pictures on Flickr. Charlie gives a link in his first post. _________________ John |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It's a shame Gerald didn't look at some samples from this lens, then he'd see it performs very well:
http://www.japancamerahunter.com/2012/09/ms-optical-sonnetar-50mm-f1-1-test-pictures/
Quote: |
I think Miyazaki san has done it again. He has come up with a quirky and interesting lens that, whilst not for everyone, is going to make certain shooters very happy. The colour rendering is very good and the aberration is much less than I would have expected. |
The optimum aperture for bokeh looks to be 1.6-2 so I won't see much advantage over my old 1.5 Sonnars.
Sure is a pretty looking lens though. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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ZoneV
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 1633 Location: Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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ZoneV wrote:
fermy wrote: |
So are we getting images any time soon? I, for one, perfectly see where Gerald is coming from and expect a poor technical performance from this lens... |
Yes and no.
He compares the lens partly with old RF lens designs, or with SLR lens designs which are optimized for maximum sharpness/contrast, good distortion. A 50mm lens for mirrorless is much easier to make, cause there is no mirror.
I have the pleasure to work as optical engineer with a high-end optical design program with a big lens patent database, and some lens design literature and workshops as background. As mentioned I would first go a different route (Petzval oder Double Gauss Type) for such a lens. But from my lens design beginners point of view I would not state a lens is worthless cause it has only 5 lenses for a 50mm/1.1 - partly because I do not know the purpose of that particular lens design. Likely it is not intended as an Otus replacement for RF cameras. _________________ Camera modification, repair and DIY - some links to look through: http://www.4photos.de/camera-diy/index-en.html
I AM A LENS NERD!
Epis, Elmaron, Emerald, Ernostar, Helioplan and Heidosmat.
Epiotar, Kameraobjektiv, Anastigmat, Epis, Meganast, Magnagon, Quinar, Culmigon, Novotrinast, Novflexar, Colorplan, Sekor, Kinon, Talon, Telemegor, Xenon, Xenar, Ultra, Ultra Star. Tessar, Janar, Visionar, Kiptar, Kipronar and Rotelar.
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
TY so much Attila
I will post samples in this thread as soon as I have a chance to shoot it, within a week I hope _________________ Making MFlenses safe for the letter *L* |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
If you get the chance, do a few comparison shots with your Sonnar 1.5/50 too.
The Miyazaki-San lens that really interests me is the tiny Perar 4/24, turn a Leica into a point n shoot! _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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cyrano
Joined: 15 Feb 2013 Posts: 855 Location: UK
Expire: 2016-12-30
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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cyrano wrote:
uhoh7 wrote: |
TY so much Attila
I will post samples in this thread as soon as I have a chance to shoot it, within a week I hope |
Here endeth the debate.
No need for thanking IMO, there are no winners or losers. _________________ A whole bunch of stuff. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57840 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Look forward your excellent images, rare opportunity to see them , thank you! _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
uhoh7 wrote: |
TY so much Attila |
So now we have the ridiculous position where we find 8 posts which make reference to Gerald before Gerald actually makes an appearance in the thread! You yourself give Gerald a "good kicking" - metaphorically of course. That's the nature of debate -sometimes. However those of us who were late to this thread - I caught a brief glimpse of Gerald's contributions before they were removed - are not in a position to judge whether your criticisms are justified or not. Are you not embarrassed by this situation? _________________ John |
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Posts: 1437
Expire: 2017-05-23
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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bernhardas wrote:
Edited
Last edited by bernhardas on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:31 am Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
sichko wrote: |
uhoh7 wrote: |
TY so much Attila |
So now we have the ridiculous position where we find 8 posts which make reference to Gerald before Gerald actually makes an appearance in the thread! You yourself give Gerald a "good kicking" - metaphorically of course. That's the nature of debate -sometimes. However those of us who were late to this thread - I caught a brief glimpse of Gerald's contributions before they were removed - are not in a position to judge whether your criticisms are justified or not. Are you not embarrassed by this situation? |
Just ignore anything i say about him that's left.
I don't carry grudges anyway, but I'm not too keen on taunting trolling from anyone. I much prefer genial discussion, and you won't find me attacking respectful people whether they may disagree with me or not.
Photo forums run the gamut, from the incredibly rude behavior at DPreview, to the very genial atmosphere at the FM ALT forum. RFF can be a bit rough, but it's an indispensable reference. Most of us want a friendly atmosphere with alot of sharing, humor, with underlying support in spite of differences in taste.
This forum does not love high priced lenses, and some members really don't love Leica, but that's OK and I think that attitude is evolving a bit as the the prices for the M9 drop and we see the M glass at it's best more often.
Many really loved the 75 Summilux images, even though it's a Leica, and one that was going for 1500 in 2000, but 3500 now. G, however, attacked that lens from the start and implied I was pretty stupid to have bought it. You can read that thread and get a taste of our battle here.
Certainly, as I've noted from the beginning, the Sonnetar is going to be a wild one, and it's probable limitations are denied by no one. It's patently obvious that "perfection" in super-speed glass means something huge, which in itself is a terrible limitation. The weight of the incredible .95 Noctilux is a giant downside. The Sonnetar looks to be an anti-noctilux It's not huge, not aspherical, not modern in configuration (except glass and coatings), and it certainly won't be "perfect" It also happens to be one tenth the price of the Noctilux.
All these things were a "given", but G felt a crusade was in order, as if no one understood a thing, and I was being sucked in by Japanese con-artists. G assumed I was an idiot, and I took that as license to expose his bottomless naiveté in the history of manual focus lenses; diagrams he googled, nonwithstanding. My apologies to everyone, sans G.
Whatever. That's all pretty boring, but you brought it up.
I don't think the Sonnetar will be boring. Shocking possibly, but not boring
Nikkor RF 5cm 50/1.4 (1954) wide open (a very close relative of the sonnetar)
DSC02274 by unoh7, on Flickr
above on A7r below on Nex5
DSC01279-1-2 by unoh7, on Flickr
DSC00605-1 by unoh7, on Flickr
Yes G knew everything about sonnars, except I don't think he ever shot any of the RF 50s which made the name famous. What do you call someone who tears apart a lens or camera he has never shot? Paper tiger, maybe. Annoying, certainly, at least to those who've paid some dues trying to learn them.
L1007325 by unoh7, Nikkor on the M9 WO
Love it or hate it, there's nothing in the world the same as this sonnar, and I'm sure the same will be true of the Sonnetar. Very little PP there.
BTW this was the first f/1.4 lens.
DSC05544 by unoh7, on Flickr
and the build of the sonnetar is very much styled like the Nikkor. Huge numbers were made. Possibly 200,000, mostly Nikon RF mount, but quite a few in LTM, and Contax RF.
Most know the nikon mount was supposed to be an exact copy of the Contax mount, but errors made them different. 35s and wider will work fine on either.
Lastly, my 1937 sonnar on a red-dial Contax 3a
DSC00189-1 by unoh7, on Flickr
The first truly great fast 50. _________________ Making MFlenses safe for the letter *L*
Last edited by uhoh7 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16497 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:40 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
very nice images, I like them and good examples.
Agree about spiteful comments, it is not needed here Fine with discussions of course
but it shoudl be done in a resopectful manner between adults; fanboys go elsewhere please _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Posts: 1437
Expire: 2017-05-23
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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bernhardas wrote:
Edited
Last edited by bernhardas on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:47 am Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
Guess What?
Untitled by unoh7, on Flickr
Some comment on the build: it seems outstanding.
The lens can take filters three ways, with exterior threads, interior threads and threads at the front of the hood. The M9 can only go to 4000, so for some of these shots there is a new 3 stop ND filter, reversed and screwed to the exterior threads, then the hood screws to the exposed threads of the 55 filter. You see the hood and filter in the foreground above, ready to screw on the external threads of the lens.
Caps are unusual: both screw over the elements. Rear cap is tiny and covers element only. Front cap came screwed to reversed hood, which was screwed to from of lens.
Stopless aperture is reverse of normal direction. Many blades, very smooth and heavy to turn. Focus is a bit lighter but well dampened. There is a small knob like the CV skopars. The entire lens turns with focus. Coma adjustment, I left as it came. This is also very dampened. Overall this is a very compact lens.
These are preliminary samples with mild PP which show performance at one coma setting only.
one of my first shots, WO of course:
L1027340 by unoh7, on Flickr
ND filter attached:
L1027359 by unoh7, on Flickr
L1027348 by unoh7, WO
L1027347 by unoh7, on Flickr
WO it def gets the glowy old school look going
L1027374 by unoh7, on Flickr
L1027393 by unoh7, on Flickr
L1027406 by unoh7, on Flickr
Let's start with these Every shot above is at f/1.1 _________________ Making MFlenses safe for the letter *L* |
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duckrider
Joined: 11 Dec 2013 Posts: 437 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:43 am Post subject: |
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duckrider wrote:
Grrrrrrrrreat!
I love Your point of view, Your pictures, Your Sonntar!
Thanks for sharing. _________________ T*homas
(from the origin land of Zeiss, an obligation )
Zeiss ZF 3.5/18, 2.8/25, 2.0/35, 2/50macro, 1.4/50, 1.4/85, 2/100macro
Nikon Df, F2AS, F2A, F3/T, FM
ALPA 11Si, Angulon 2,8/35 ; Xenar 1,9/50 ; Tele-Tessar 4/200
Leica R3 SAFARI Safari Lenses 2.8/28 ; 2/50 ; 4/180
Rolleiflex SL 350 , Zeiss 2,8/16 ; 4/18 ; 2,8/25 ; 2,8/35 ; 1,4/35 ; 1,8/50 ; 2,8/85 ; 1,4/85 ; 4/135 ; 4/200
Leica M9-P, Leica M4-2, Tri-Elmar "Wate", Distagon 2,8/21, Biogon 2,8/28, Biogon 2/35, Planar 2/50, Tessar 4/85, M-Elmar 50mm, Summicron 90
Sony alpha 7r & adapters for all lenses above |
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ZoneV
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 1633 Location: Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: |
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ZoneV wrote:
I wanted to start asking "When will the lens arrive?" yesterday
Thank you for the first images!
Looks like not a MTF wise "perfect" lens like the Otus 55, but a good tool with extreme speed and very lightweight.
I love non "perfect" lenses _________________ Camera modification, repair and DIY - some links to look through: http://www.4photos.de/camera-diy/index-en.html
I AM A LENS NERD!
Epis, Elmaron, Emerald, Ernostar, Helioplan and Heidosmat.
Epiotar, Kameraobjektiv, Anastigmat, Epis, Meganast, Magnagon, Quinar, Culmigon, Novotrinast, Novflexar, Colorplan, Sekor, Kinon, Talon, Telemegor, Xenon, Xenar, Ultra, Ultra Star. Tessar, Janar, Visionar, Kiptar, Kipronar and Rotelar.
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Posts: 1437
Expire: 2017-05-23
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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bernhardas wrote:
Edited
Last edited by bernhardas on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
No doubt about it - that Sonnetar fits perfectly into the evolutionary line of Sonnars. In fact, it renders just like a 1930s Sonnar 1.5/50 to my eyes, a little softer due to being 1.1 rather than 1.5 but the character is very very similar so I like it. The price is not bad at all either, considering how much a ZM Sonnar 1.5/50 costs new.
Bernhard, you should look for a 1960s or 1950s Jupiter-3 1.5/50, which is a copy of the Sonnar 1.5/50. I have one as well as an original Sonnar and the J3 is every bit as good. The Sonnar cost me 45ukp, the J3 cost me 45ukp with a beautiful Kiev IV with it. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2201 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Aanything wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Bernhard, you should look for a 1960s or 1950s Jupiter-3 1.5/50, which is a copy of the Sonnar 1.5/50. I have one as well as an original Sonnar and the J3 is every bit as good. The Sonnar cost me 45ukp, the J3 cost me 45ukp with a beautiful Kiev IV with it. |
+1 for the J3, I got one (ltm, 1964, red P) in Russia this autumn, and it really works great if you're after that particular vintage sonnar look.
Samples from the sonnetar look indeed very good, and the little thing itself looks beautiful.
Time for samples showing the effect of the coma correction now :wink: _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
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