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Soligor 'P' Dream Team
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyberjunkie wrote:
The macro on the right reminds me of the Komine, but the Komine extends on both sides, over and under the focusing ring...
I guess all the "C/D P" family is Tokina made.
What's the serial?

I have both the 2/135mm and the 2/28mm I showed in a previous post. Same year (1974) and same mount (M42).
Have you ever seen these lenses in PK mount?
I have never seen one, which would mean that the production ceased before the introduction of the Pentax K mount.
Thanks in advance for any info

cheers

Paolo


Paolo,

Sorry I didn't catch this sooner! I can't say I have ever seen any of these in PK or PK/A mount. As far as the serials, I've got (focal length 'if marked with P' (mount) - serial):

- 28/2 'P' (N/F) - 17401485
- 35/2 'P' (N/AI) - 17503697
- 55/2.8 (N/F) - 17601860
- 135/2 'P' (N/F) - 17503797
- 200/2.8 (N/AI) - 17506108
- 200/2.8 'P' (C/FD) - 17504702

I'm inclined to swap the cosmetic rings on my 200/2.8 lenses simply because I'm likely to hang onto the Nikon mount (my native choice) and let the F/D go. I like that red 'P' and I'm not sure how much, if any difference there was between those with and without it. Perhaps it was only a marketing ploy. Between the two, the coatings appear the same, according to the serials, they were made in the same year, 1975. But I digress.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is still a doubt I have about the C/D P line:
the 2.8/55mm Macro looks very much Komine-made, but all the other lenses are believed to be of Tokina origin, which is confirmed by the serial and by the fact that most of them have a Tokina equivalent.
By the way, the serial you posted seems to suggest that the 55mm was made by Tokina like the others.
Does anybody have a clue?

As of today, I have a trio of C/D P lenses (2/28mm, 2/135mm, 2.8/200mm), all M42 and all in wonderful conditions, with original front caps.
I also got interested in other C/D lenses available in PK mount.
All are primes (except one dual-focal), though I'm wondering if any of the C/D zooms is worth buying, under a "user" point of view (which means for actual practical use).
When it comes to vintage lenses, I almost always stick to primes, but I found that some old zooms work very well, even a few of them which have rather dated projects.
One example is the Vivitar Series 1 Flat field 90-180mm, which works great at close range.
A couple of Tamron SP (Adaptall-2) zooms also work well enough at (almost) macro range.
I'm wondering if there are some hidden jewels in the C/D line too.

cheers
Paolo


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyberjunkie wrote:
There is still a doubt I have about the C/D P line:
the 2.8/55mm Macro looks very much Komine-made, but all the other lenses are believed to be of Tokina origin, which is confirmed by the serial and by the fact that most of them have a Tokina equivalent.
By the way, the serial you posted seems to suggest that the 55mm was made by Tokina like the others.
Does anybody have a clue?


I definitely don't have definitive evidence. I can only say that of the several copies I have seen/owned, including one that's currently listed on eBay, all have the serial that begins with '1' (indicating Tokina). Furthermore, while highly unscientific, I would add that the manufacturing similarities between the Soligor 55mm 1:1 adapter and the Tokina-made Vivitar Series 1 90/2.5 macro adapter are quite striking. While I know Soligor sourced it's lenses to a number of manufacturers and between them all, there is some obvious attempts to maintain a visual brand, there are hallmarks from each manufacturer that somewhat give a 'tell' as to who made it. I notice many of the Sun-made lenses I have come across, use a diamond-shaped engraving at the beginning of the distance-scale on the barrel. Where-as all my Tokina-made optics have a dot. Looking at the two aforementioned adapters side-by-side, and given the serial, I would be quite surprised to find out if it wasn't Tokina.





Also, I can't recall if we mentioned, I believe this same lens was marketed under the Sears brand also. Not sure if that in any way affects the thinking since I know very little about where Sears branded lenses came from.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyberjunkie wrote:
< . . . >
When it comes to vintage lenses, I almost always stick to primes, but I found that some old zooms work very well, even a few of them which have rather dated projects.
One example is the Vivitar Series 1 Flat field 90-180mm, which works great at close range.
A couple of Tamron SP (Adaptall-2) zooms also work well enough at (almost) macro range.
I'm wondering if there are some hidden jewels in the C/D line too.


I read through this thread with some interest since I'm not familiar with Soligor primes at all. I do have some experience with Soligor zooms, however, which is why I'm responding.

Back in about 1984 or so I bought a new Soligor 85-300mm f/5 in Canon FD mount. I wanted a zoom with some reach and decided on the Soligor based on price and the fact that it was an f/5 lens at 300mm. I was never very enamored by this lens, but upon looking back at some old slides, where it had to have been the Soligor, I'm now concluding that it was actually a decent performer when stopped down, probably to f/11 or so. I ended up selling it for a paltry sum and buying a Tamron SP 60-300 f/3.8-5.4, which I was much happier with. The fact that the Soligor is a 2-ring zoom and the Tamron is push-pull may have had something to do with it, since I was familiar and comfortable with using push-pull zooms, but not with 2-ring ones. But if it did, it was probably a minor consideration. No, I just think that the Tamron is most likely a better optic. It certainly was a much more expensive one.

Recently, however, I've become curious about that Soligor again, and I ended up buying one off eBay for less than 20 dollars. That was a few days ago. It should arrive any day now. Once I have it, I plan to do a "shoot out" test against the Tamron 60-300. And I might just toss in the awesome Tokina AT-X 100-300, just to see how those two fare against it.

Back when I bought my first Soligor, I knew a guy who owned the Soligor 95-310 f/5.6 and I can recall being a little jealous because his was a push-pull zoom and it had an additional 10mm of focal length. Silly, I know. I also recall asking him about his lens's performance, and he told me it was a great lens. So this further fueled my interest. I've always wondered about that lens, so I bought one a few years ago. Picked it up in Nikon F mount for dirt cheap. Well, I put that lens through a variety of situations and was, frankly, stunned at just how bad it was. It had a stupendous amount of CA and was almost incapable of providing images of any reasonable sharpness at all. I found myself wondering what sort of standards that old friend had, cuz no way was the 95-310 a "great" lens. It is, in fact, the worst zoom lens I have ever used.

So there you have it, my limited amount of experience with Soligor zooms suggests that, when stopped down, the 85-300 can be a capable performer, but that the 95-310 should be avoided at all costs, unless your intent is to use it for target practice.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyberjunkie wrote:

All are primes (except one dual-focal), though I'm wondering if any of the C/D zooms is worth buying, under a "user" point of view (which means for actual practical use).
When it comes to vintage lenses, I almost always stick to primes, but I found that some old zooms work very well, even a few of them which have rather dated projects.
One example is the Vivitar Series 1 Flat field 90-180mm, which works great at close range.
A couple of Tamron SP (Adaptall-2) zooms also work well enough at (almost) macro range.
I'm wondering if there are some hidden jewels in the C/D line too.

cheers
Paolo


Similar to Michael's experience, I have found Soligor zooms to be mediocre to poor. I own the 35-105/3.5 which is actually, again, a Tokina-made lens. Optically this lens isn't too bad, but using it, while mechanically very smooth, I don't find the 2-rings particularly user-friendly. Furthermore, the minimum focusing distance is actually quite poor and I always find myself surprised at how far from my subject I must be relative to similar focal length lenses. This has been my 'best' experience. I momentarily owned the 100-300/5 (Tokina-made) and it was abysmal at f5. Got a bit better stopped down, but at that point, there are just so many better alternatives.



PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
justtorchit wrote:
I would add that the manufacturing similarities between the Soligor 55mm 1:1 adapter and the Tokina-made Vivitar Series 1 90/2.5 macro adapter are quite striking.

There is a MAJOR difference beetwen the vivitar S1 90/2.5 1:1 adapter and the soligor 55mm 1:1 adapater : The Soligor is just an extension ring of the correct size to reach 1:1 ratio while the Viivitar/Tokina is a 3 group lens which is supposed (i mainly doubt of that allegation) to correct aberrations at close distance


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PBFACTS wrote:
justtorchit wrote:
I would add that the manufacturing similarities between the Soligor 55mm 1:1 adapter and the Tokina-made Vivitar Series 1 90/2.5 macro adapter are quite striking.

There is a MAJOR difference beetwen the vivitar S1 90/2.5 1:1 adapter and the soligor 55mm 1:1 adapater : The Soligor is just an extension ring of the correct size to reach 1:1 ratio while the Viivitar/Tokina is a 3 group lens which is supposed (i mainly doubt of that allegation) to correct aberrations at close distance


I did not mean to say they were the same in any way other than their cosmetic design hallmarks (styling). Functionally, yes, obviously one has optics and the other is just an extension tube. I only meant to say that, in the same way we talk about knurling and grip patterns between lenses as possible indicators of who manufactured what...these two adapters share many similar cosmetic qualities. Bevels, lens release button, lens mount, etc. I just meant to say that cosmetically the two bear very similar resemblance.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like the C/D 90mm f/2.5. Great build and the drawing is superb IMHO. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
I like the C/D 90mm f/2.5. Great build and the drawing is superb IMHO. Wink


This is definitely a Komine! Smile
I tried to buy it many times, but I never found one in PK mount at the price I was ready to spend...


PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had that 90mm in its Vivitar incarnation. Great lens! Wasn't aware Soligor had rebranded it as well!

Per an earlier discussion, I did finally manage to pick up the Soligor C/D 200mm F/2.8 P lens. Specifically, the Tokina-made version (as opposed to the Sun-made version). So far, in my limited use, it performs very similar to the other C/D 'P' lenses. It's IQ doesn't wow necessarily, but if you like the 'feel' of the images made by the others in the line, it's worth checking out. A bit soft wide open. Susceptible to flare but not destroyed by it. CA present wide open. But a lot of fun and capable of some very lovely results. This is the lens (the image was actually shot using the Soligor 35/2 P lens).




Some samples in the backyard of my tree as it was turning earlier in the fall. Not terribly exciting, but I was having fun so I suppose that's gotta count for something! These were shot at near minimum focus distance and the background is probably 50-60ft beyond.







PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
While patiently waiting for the last two members of the C/D P family I miss, I found an interesting detail I had never noticed.
The wonderful black 75mm wide angle for the Polaroid/Mamiya Universal has the red "P"!
It is also looking very much Tokina-style in the way it looks and it is built.
I never thought a Mamiya Sekor could have been actually made by Tokina. I believed that it was either Tomioka or made by Mamiya itself.
I took for granted that all medium format lenses were designed (and made) internally.
Now I'm not so sure anymore...


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyberjunkie wrote:
While patiently waiting for the last two members of the C/D P family I miss, I found an interesting detail I had never noticed.
The wonderful black 75mm wide angle for the Polaroid/Mamiya Universal has the red "P"!
It is also looking very much Tokina-style in the way it looks and it is built.
I never thought a Mamiya Sekor could have been actually made by Tokina. I believed that it was either Tomioka or made by Mamiya itself.
I took for granted that all medium format lenses were designed (and made) internally.
Now I'm not so sure anymore...


Nikon and Komura made lenses for the Bronicas of course, and Komura made tele-converters for Mamiya, Bronica and Pentax medium format cameras as well.
Tom


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
cyberjunkie wrote:
While patiently waiting for the last two members of the C/D P family I miss, I found an interesting detail I had never noticed.
The wonderful black 75mm wide angle for the Polaroid/Mamiya Universal has the red "P"!
It is also looking very much Tokina-style in the way it looks and it is built.
I never thought a Mamiya Sekor could have been actually made by Tokina. I believed that it was either Tomioka or made by Mamiya itself.
I took for granted that all medium format lenses were designed (and made) internally.
Now I'm not so sure anymore...


Nikon and Komura made lenses for the Bronicas of course, and Komura made tele-converters for Mamiya, Bronica and Pentax medium format cameras as well.
Tom


You are right, but I referred to Mamiya, not Bronica! Smile
Back to the red "P", I don't remember if other late black lenses (for the Mamiya Universal and the almost identical Polaroid model) had the same engraving. I have a 150mm of the same series, that I bought long time ago as NOS, with box, hood, and papers. I remember it was a Tessar design, but I don' recall if it had the same "P" of the 75mm.
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