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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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 Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:47 pm Post subject: SMC Pentax 50/1.4 vs Topcor 58/1.8 |
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caspert79 wrote:
A test I did today between the SMC Pentax 50/1.4 and RE Auto-Topcor 58/1.8.
Here some 100% crops:
Surprisingly, the SMC Pentax 50/1.4 blows the Topcor out of the water. More vibrant colors, more contrast. The Pentax seems sharper as well.
Bokeh test:
More contrast and sharpness with the Pentax. Bokeh is quite pleasant in both lenses. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10540
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
No surprise to me.
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Teemō
Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 586
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Teemō wrote:
The Pentax is better in every way except colours - at least if the Topcor had greater contrast.... for me the Pentax is far too yellow.
On the 100% crops I can't help but notice that they are both very detailed wide open but both lenses seem to be less detailed after until F4 for the Pentax and F5.6-8 on the Topcor. I don't get it. Particularly F2.8 on the Topcor is totally mushy. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Bad copy of the Topcor? I've always felt mine was among the best lenses I owned.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Bad copy of the Topcor? I've always felt mine was among the best lenses I owned. |
Maybe, it’s the first one I’m testing. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3669
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Your Topcor 58/1.8 looks nothing like mine, what serieal # is yours ???xxxx first 3 digits is all we need to know which version you have.
Just added more 58/1.8 pictures to my Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/topcorre5818/
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A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
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Last edited by Lightshow on Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Mine starts with 116. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3669
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
As does mine, something is out on yours, it should be sharp, lots of resolving power and a three dimensional feel to it's pictures.
_________________
A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/
Last edited by Lightshow on Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:48 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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y
Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Posts: 304
Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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y wrote:
Mine 990xxxxx is definitely much sharper in the center. The contrast is somewhat in line with expectations - it is a single-coated lens unlike the SMCed Pentax.
However, my copy of the f/1.8 seems to have really horrible corners - visibly soft even at f/4. Funny thing is, my RE. Topcor f/1.4 version has wonderful corners although numerous reviews say otherwise. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| Lightshow wrote: |
As does mine, something is out on yours, it should be sharp, lots of resolving power and a three dimensional feel to it's pictures.
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Yeah, i figure mine is a bad sample. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3669
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
I'll post the serial # info from another post.
Code 62B based on the F Auto-Topcor from: 620001 to 625115 (1963)
Code 99B new optics,2nd and 3rd elements were separated. from 99xxxxx to 9901920 (1964)
Code 116B new mechanicals, from 1160001 to 11608302 (1965)
Code 129B (black or chrome) optics changed again From: 1161xxxx to 11670435 last known (1966) I have the chrome version, awesome lens.
Code 129BD (Navy) from: 1165xxxx to 11650401 last known (1967)
Code 129BG AUTO-TOPCOR (black) from: 1168xxxx to 11685922 last known (1971)
_________________
A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
"for me the Pentax is far too yellow. "
"Golden" is my description.
It is a gorgeous defect.
It is a slight edge of sunset.
Many Komuras have this, even more.
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I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Posts: 6009
Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
I don't think that there is too much wrong with your Topcor.
There is much better contrast with the Pentax of course and that is to be expected because of its superior coatings.
The contrast difference at both longer and shorter ranges makes the Pentax look sharper but it is apparent sharpness I think.
The lenses might both be resolving approximately the same and the SMC is making all the difference in the distance shots.
The Topcor has a clearly prettier bokeh to my eye.
I find that the Topcor excels in close to medium shots where I want bokeh to be super buttery. For long shots the SMC Pentax is certainly better
Tom |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3669
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:59 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
caspert79, could you post the original pictures or link to them please, I would like to remove the downsizing and embedding into the text which was posted as a jpg as a possible cause of degraded performance.
_________________
A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:37 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| Oldhand wrote: |
I don't think that there is too much wrong with your Topcor.
There is much better contrast with the Pentax of course and that is to be expected because of its superior coatings.
The contrast difference at both longer and shorter ranges makes the Pentax look sharper but it is apparent sharpness I think.
The lenses might both be resolving approximately the same and the SMC is making all the difference in the distance shots.
The Topcor has a clearly prettier bokeh to my eye.
I find that the Topcor excels in close to medium shots where I want bokeh to be super buttery. For long shots the SMC Pentax is certainly better
Tom |
You might be right there. |
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 942
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
| Oldhand wrote: |
I don't think that there is too much wrong with your Topcor.
There is much better contrast with the Pentax of course and that is to be expected because of its superior coatings.
The contrast difference at both longer and shorter ranges makes the Pentax look sharper but it is apparent sharpness I think.
The lenses might both be resolving approximately the same and the SMC is making all the difference in the distance shots.
The Topcor has a clearly prettier bokeh to my eye.
I find that the Topcor excels in close to medium shots where I want bokeh to be super buttery. For long shots the SMC Pentax is certainly better
Tom |
The Pentax has a fantastic bokeh in my opinion, one of the best for a standard with a double gauss design. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Bad copy of the Topcor? I've always felt mine was among the best lenses I owned. |
We agree on that !!
I'll run a similar test tomorrow, using two Topcors and two Takumars each.
Stephan
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| stevemark wrote: |
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Bad copy of the Topcor? I've always felt mine was among the best lenses I owned. |
We agree on that !!
I'll run a similar test tomorrow, using two Topcors and two Takumars each.
Stephan |
Great, I’m curious. If you happen to have a SMC Pentax 50/1.4, please include it. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: SMC Pentax 50/1.4 vs Topcor 58/1.8 |
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stevemark wrote:
| caspert79 wrote: |
A test I did today between the SMC Pentax 50/1.4 and RE Auto-Topcor 58/1.8.
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I always enjoy looking at others tests; thanks for doing the work! Could you add some more information such as camera used, crops (usually 100%, but not always), tripod, and method of actually taking the image (eg self-timer, electronic shutter and similar information)?
Stephan
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Oly E-pl5, 100% crops, 2 sec timer, Hama Omega premium ii tripod. |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 1571
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Thank you for your very interesting comparison, сaspert79. I recently did a similar test comparing Topcor 2.8/35 and Hexanon 2.8/35, in order to discover that Hexanon renders details slightly better.
Still, I am puzzled with a rather "flat" performance of your Topcor. Shots I saw from other members of the forum and in internet coming from this lens give an idea of a pretty gaze blowing 3D effect which is equally reclaimed here by Lightshow. I am curious to see some more shots with your Topcor if you could take objects in close to mid range. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:02 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
| alex ph wrote: |
Thank you for your very interesting comparison, сaspert79. I recently did a similar test comparing Topcor 2.8/35 and Hexanon 2.8/35, in order to discover that Hexanon renders details slightly better.
Still, I am puzzled with a rather "flat" performance of your Topcor. Shots I saw from other members of the forum and in internet coming from this lens give an idea of a pretty gaze blowing 3D effect which is equally reclaimed here by Lightshow. I am curious to see some more shots with your Topcor if you could take objects in close to mid range. |
I will certainly do that! |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| Oldhand wrote: |
| I don't think that there is too much wrong with your Topcor. |
Sure? Look at the 100% crops (24MP FF, corner) below.
[/quote]
| Oldhand wrote: |
There is much better contrast with the Pentax of course and that is to be expected because of its superior coatings. |
Regarding contrast, my Topcor 1.8/58mm and my Super-Takumar 1.4/50mm are indistinguishable (comparing them at the same aperture, of course). See image below.
If one wants the best performance over the entire full frame field, the Topcor 1.8/50mm delivers better results than the Takumar, both at f2 and at f4.
The Takumar may, however, have a better center resolution than the Topcor. This may explain the diagreement between Calvin's (micro 4/3) and my (Full Frame) tests.
Stephan
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Judging from your corner crops I’m quite convinced that there’s something wrong with my Topcor lens. |
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y
Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Posts: 304
Location: EU
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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y wrote:
Nice work, guys.
I'll test my S-M-C Takumar 50/1.4 (the same optics as the SMC Pentax K) and the 990xxxxx RE. Topcor 58/1.8 sometime in following days. |
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