Home
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Shutter tester for shutter speed up to 1/1000th $14.99
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I forgot to leave feedback here: the tester arrived quickly and it seems to work as described. Smile


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ludoo wrote:
Yes, I forgot to leave feedback here: the tester arrived quickly and it seems to work as described. Smile


Thank you, Ludo! Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:56 pm    Post subject: shutter tester Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick delivery of the shutter tester and for mail with the manual. It was a pleasure doing business.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: shutter tester Reply with quote

tweeoog wrote:
Thanks for the quick delivery of the shutter tester and for mail with the manual. It was a pleasure doing business.


Thank you, Ton! Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote





bump! Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, what are you doing with a cellphone? Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just ordered a boxed version Smile


PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ludoo wrote:
Uh, what are you doing with a cellphone? Smile


Making phone calls. Laughing

Gonzoo wrote:
Just ordered a boxed version Smile


Great! Very Happy


PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vfmoto wrote:
ludoo wrote:
Uh, what are you doing with a cellphone? Smile


Making phone calls. Laughing


It's a new service! He can diagnose your shutter over the phone if the shipping costs are too high for the tester. Very Happy


PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may seem like a naive question, but does it work with both leaf and focal plane shutters?


PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scheimpflug wrote:


It's a new service! He can diagnose your shutter over the phone if the shipping costs are too high for the tester. Very Happy


I'm not that good. Laughing However, I am working on a 3 sensor shutter tester with LCD display that won't need a computer. Might take some time to finish it though. I have 3 very busy weeks ahead.

alex wrote:
This may seem like a naive question, but does it work with both leaf and focal plane shutters?


Yes! The screen shots in the thread are made with a focal plane shutter. I tested a leaf shutter (Lubitel 2) before and after sending it to be CLA. The local camera shop did a nice job at adjusting my shutter. All speeds are within 15% of spec. That's pretty good for a 40 year old cheap Russian camera.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vfmoto wrote:

Yes! The screen shots in the thread are made with a focal plane shutter.


Good. I'd like to order one box tester and one cable tester (I'm lazy), what's the best way to go about it?


PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex wrote:
vfmoto wrote:

Yes! The screen shots in the thread are made with a focal plane shutter.


Good. I'd like to order one box tester and one cable tester (I'm lazy), what's the best way to go about it?


eBay -> bid and ask for an invoice with the correct shipping rate -> pay with PayPal.

or

Send me an PM with an email address and I will send you the PayPal invoice.

Shipping to the UK is $17.55 priority and $16.73 standard.

Cheers,
Florin Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex wrote:
Good. I'd like to order one box tester and one cable tester (I'm lazy), what's the best way to go about it?


That's exactly what I did. Waiting for them to arrive Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My shutter testers arrived safe and sound early this morning, and faster than I had expected.

Florin was very helpful and prompt with my queries. I've got the Audacity sound editor now (the v1.3 beta for Windows 7), and I'll be having a play tonight once I get an LED light source sorted out.

Exciting!


PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My light source a simple desktop lamp, shutter tester on table camera on top of light sensor. Table lamp energy saver cold light source above lens , it works fine much easier than laser led , bright led etc.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick interim report on the shutter tester, which I've now had for a few hours. (I have both box and cable versions.)

The instructions are clearly laid out and illustrated, easy to follow, and the tips on interpreting the Audacity graphical output and knowing where to start and end the sample are invaluable.

Rigging up the box version of the tester was easy. I used as a light source a little LED thing my wife had given me ages ago that plugs in to a spare USB port (lets you read by a light clipped to your laptop). I held the light source rigidly by holding it in the crocodile clips of a small hobby craft magnifying glass stand, pointed at the shutter, and a couple of elastic bands to hold the light sensor box in front of the lens. So far, so high tech.

I connected it up to Audacity, the beta version for use with Windows 7. Adjusting distances to get a sensible amplitude, not too small and not off the scale, was easy. The version of Audacity I downloaded displays the time axis in units no smaller than a millisecond, which isn't fine enough to tell the difference between 1/500 and 1/1000 in terms of error in the shutter speed itself, so I set the counters at the bottom of the Audacity display to show number of samples between the start and end points in a selection instead, and divided that by the project sampling rate shown in Hz, to arrive at an estimate in seconds down to about 5 d.p. I just keyed these sampling numbers into a spreadsheet that handled all the calculations and displayed measured shutter speeds in the usual reciprocal convention, as well as calculating % deviations from nominal speeds.

The first shutter I measured was my Zeiss Simplex folder, which has a Derval everset shutter, with marked speeds 100, 50, and 25. Being everset, it doesn't require cocking, so I didn't expect it to be accurate, but I did expect it to be precise, and this was exactly what I found. Actual speeds were 60, 40, and 20, and these were reproducible with fair consistency. With these old cameras, knowing what the speeds are is more important than knowing what they should be.

The next shutter I tested was the Citizen leaf shutter on my Yashica Minister III rangefinder, a delightful 60's camera with a non-coupled selenium meter and a shutter speed range from 1s to 1/500. I measured each marked speed twice, using a cable release to trip the shutter. This is what I found.

All speeds are shown as reciprocals of a second

Nominal speed Measured speeds
    1 : 0.99, 0.99
    2 : 2.00, 1.97
    4 : 4.03, 3.85
    8 : 7.35, 7.74
    15 : 15.84, 15.14
    30 : 30.63, 30.63
    60 : 60.58, 61.25
    125 : 105.00, 100.23
    250 : 226.15, 225.00
    500 : 373.73, 370.59

(I use the UK convention of '.' as decimal mark and ',' as a separator.)

Stone the crows. Speeds up to 1/250th are within about 10%, indeed mostly within 2%, except for 1/125, which is running slow by about a quarter of a stop. The top speed of 500 is actually about 370, or slow by a two-fifths of a stop. This is entirely expected, as it's common for top speeds to run slow like this on mechanical leaf shutters. I think these readings are exceptionally good for a camera that is over half a century old, and far better than I'd expected. As before, as long as the speeds are consistent and precise, that's more important than accuracy.

Most of the few hours I spent on this task were spent in familiarisation and in getting a method going. Once I'd sorted out the right length of elastic bands, and got everything physically stable and lined up, making the readings was a piece of cake and a matter of five minutes.

Well worth the money, even with the Romanian postage costs Florin warns us about.

Now to line up all my old box cameras and Ikontas.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex wrote:
Quick interim report on the shutter tester, which I've now had for a few hours. (I have both box and cable versions.)

The instructions are clearly laid out and illustrated, easy to follow, and the tips on interpreting the Audacity graphical output and knowing where to start and end the sample are invaluable.

Rigging up the box version of the tester was easy. I used as a light source a little LED thing my wife had given me ages ago that plugs in to a spare USB port (lets you read by a light clipped to your laptop). I held the light source rigidly by holding it in the crocodile clips of a small hobby craft magnifying glass stand, pointed at the shutter, and a couple of elastic bands to hold the light sensor box in front of the lens. So far, so high tech.

I connected it up to Audacity, the beta version for use with Windows 7. Adjusting distances to get a sensible amplitude, not too small and not off the scale, was easy. The version of Audacity I downloaded displays the time axis in units no smaller than a millisecond, which isn't fine enough to tell the difference between 1/500 and 1/1000 in terms of error in the shutter speed itself, so I set the counters at the bottom of the Audacity display to show number of samples between the start and end points in a selection instead, and divided that by the project sampling rate shown in Hz, to arrive at an estimate in seconds down to about 5 d.p. I just keyed these sampling numbers into a spreadsheet that handled all the calculations and displayed measured shutter speeds in the usual reciprocal convention, as well as calculating % deviations from nominal speeds.

The first shutter I measured was my Zeiss Simplex folder, which has a Derval everset shutter, with marked speeds 100, 50, and 25. Being everset, it doesn't require cocking, so I didn't expect it to be accurate, but I did expect it to be precise, and this was exactly what I found. Actual speeds were 60, 40, and 20, and these were reproducible with fair consistency. With these old cameras, knowing what the speeds are is more important than knowing what they should be.

The next shutter I tested was the Citizen leaf shutter on my Yashica Minister III rangefinder, a delightful 60's camera with a non-coupled selenium meter and a shutter speed range from 1s to 1/500. I measured each marked speed twice, using a cable release to trip the shutter. This is what I found.

All speeds are shown as reciprocals of a second

Nominal speed Measured speeds
    1 : 0.99, 0.99
    2 : 2.00, 1.97
    4 : 4.03, 3.85
    8 : 7.35, 7.74
    15 : 15.84, 15.14
    30 : 30.63, 30.63
    60 : 60.58, 61.25
    125 : 105.00, 100.23
    250 : 226.15, 225.00
    500 : 373.73, 370.59

(I use the UK convention of '.' as decimal mark and ',' as a separator.)

Stone the crows. Speeds up to 1/250th are within about 10%, indeed mostly within 2%, except for 1/125, which is running slow by about a quarter of a stop. The top speed of 500 is actually about 370, or slow by a two-fifths of a stop. This is entirely expected, as it's common for top speeds to run slow like this on mechanical leaf shutters. I think these readings are exceptionally good for a camera that is over half a century old, and far better than I'd expected. As before, as long as the speeds are consistent and precise, that's more important than accuracy.

Most of the few hours I spent on this task were spent in familiarisation and in getting a method going. Once I'd sorted out the right length of elastic bands, and got everything physically stable and lined up, making the readings was a piece of cake and a matter of five minutes.

Well worth the money, even with the Romanian postage costs Florin warns us about.

Now to line up all my old box cameras and Ikontas.


Thank you for the detailed review, Alex! I am glad you like the testers.

Cheers,
Florin Wink


PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Received the testers an hour back. Plan to test the Voigtlander Prominent over the week end. Shall post the report here. Thanks Florin.

Last edited by Shiladitya on Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shiladitya wrote:
Received the testers an hour back. Plan to test the Vigtlander Prominent over the week end. Shall post the report here. Thanks Florin.


Glad you finally got the tester! Very Happy

Cheers,
Florin


PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've now tested a few box cameras, and it's pleasing how consistent each model is, in particular my old Zeiss Tengor, which is rather more sophisticated than the average box camera, having a choice of three apertures (f/11, 16, 22) and three focus zones, 1-2m, 2-8m and 8m-inf. I've also measure a couple of Box Brownies, and found them repeatable, though with a possibly interesting artefact. I did five or six measures on each.

Here's the measured speeds in 1/seconds :-

Zeiss Tengor : 41, 41, 39, 39, 39 (Avg 40)
Kodak Brownie No.2 : 58, 68, 60, 68, 61 (Avg 63)
Kodak Portrait Brownie : 41, 46, 41, 44, 42, 47, 43 (Avg 43)

I've not yet done any statistical tests, but there may be an interesting effect noticed if you look at the results for the first Brownie. The speeds seem to alternate between a slower and a faster, around 60 and 68. If you look at the second Brownie, it seems to show the same property, alternate exposures oscillating between about 42 and 46. The Tengor doesn't show this.

The Brownies however work slightly differently ; in these, you push down on the shutter lever to take one picture, then pull it back up to take the next, whereas on the Tengor you push the shutter lever, the picture is taken, and the lever returns to the start position. Taking the front off each camera, you can see that on the Kodaks, the shutter disk rotates clockwise for one exposure, then anticlockwise for the next, whereas on the Tengor, the shutter disk rotates clockwise, and then a baffle moves in to cover the aperture while the open disk rotates back to its starting position, the baffle stopping light reaching the film during this action. So on the Brownies, this may be reflected in slightly different exposure times, though as can be seen, not enough to have any effect whatsoever on the exposure value to be recorded on the film.

There, I just knew this would be fun. (Do you think I should get out more?)


PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex wrote:

There, I just knew this would be fun. (Do you think I should get out more?)


Only if you use the cameras you test. Very Happy

Interesting results and patterns you have there! From what you say they make sens.

Cheers,
Florin Wink


PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shipping to US has dropped form $17 to $14 for priority mail and from 11.91 to $9 for standard mail. Very Happy

Don't have any box testers now but I hope to make another batch in a week.

Cheers,
Florin Wink


PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is available in my shop from now.

Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject: Shutter speed tester Reply with quote

Hi
What is the slowest speed it will test accurately?