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Shooting the collection on A7(r) :)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
tromboads wrote:
cant keep everyone happy all of the time. Razz So now they are too small and light there mirrors are so big they go BANG!

Its a Pentax ME Super all over again Razz

Something about the right tool for the... bah what does it matter Laughing


Yeah, another old truism 'only a bad workman blames his tools'...

There are no bad cameras, only bad shooters.

Blur this, shake that, ever heard of a tripod? lol


A tripod doesn't help - see the link.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
As an aside, I've noticed that at slow shutter speeds the electronic first shutter actually results in blurrier shots than with the normal loud shutter. No idea why this is, but I noticed the same thing on the Sony a57. Weird!


TY for that. I will have to experiment. Smile


DSC01162 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC01180-2 by unoh7, on Flickr

can't complain much about the 50 cron on this camera Smile Really good on the R also.


DSC05731 by unoh7, on Flickr


50 cron by unoh7, on Flickr
last shot on the R


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sichko wrote:
A tripod doesn't help - see the link.


The Olympus pen cameras suffered the same thing until Olympus added in an option to delay the shot being to taken to avoid "shutter shock". This really helped my shots, partiularly at slow shutter speeds.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
uhoh7 wrote:
DSG wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote:
DSG wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote:
The colour shift issues are well documented for the a7r. Glad you are getting on better with the a7.


What colour shift issues? I am used to processing every single pic that I deem good enough to keep with Photoshop...Where colour issues can be quickly and easily taken care of...So there will be no issue with colour for me!


Wide rangefinder lenses are notorious for colour shift problems on the a7r. I'm not going to list all the various threads for you though Wink One of the problems is creating a workflow for removing corner based colour shift (which varies for each lens at different apertures) without ruining the image.


If I understand you correctly, your saying that its only rangefinder (short registration distance lenses) that cause the colour shift problem? I don't have any rangefinder lenses so that shouldn't be an issue for me.


Sorry but you have no clue-- not your fault since you don't own either camera.

The A7r is a highly flawed machine with many lenses, not just RF wides. It's also a great machine with some glass.

The A7 is way more versatile and has plenty resolution.

The M9 is far superior to both in the right hands with the right glass.

I don't say that lightly, and I didn't believe it a month a ago. But in that time I have learned alot.

Here is the M9 with a good 28:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4056/4289050214_ae9714633e_o.jpg
A7r nor A7 can touch this with any 28. Please show me sample if I'm wrong.

True the M9 is bad at high ISO. I rarely shoot at high ISO myself. You still gain all kinds of grain on the sonys. Better to use a nice fast lens. You can do that on the M9, but on the sonys the super speeds loose their edges at wide apertures: not in every case, but many.

Why are the sonys flawed? Because sony decided, stupidly, to put a thick series of layers over their sensors and then use specially designed native glass and their processor to resolve the edges.

I would say the A7 is very much worth owning, despite these issues.


Its a bit pointless posting that M9 pic without an A7r pic of the same subject, from the same position and with the same lens to compare with it. In any case, the A7r has double the resolution so even without a sample to show I can guarantee the A7r would walk all over the M9...Its a foregone conclusion!


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Remember that A7(R) are brand new series. There is always something to make things better later. There is no perfect camera. There will always be weaknesses with every system. I think we all know this, right?!?

I care more about the lenses than the cameras really. Cameras comes and goes. I bought the FF sony system just because of the short register distance + FF sensor to use with my old RF and SLR lenses, and I am happy about just that Wink


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
that's it Wink


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
As an aside, I've noticed that at slow shutter speeds the electronic first shutter actually results in blurrier shots than with the normal loud shutter. No idea why this is, but I noticed the same thing on the Sony a57. Weird!

I would have expected the opposite. Do you have samples?


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ForenSeil wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote:
As an aside, I've noticed that at slow shutter speeds the electronic first shutter actually results in blurrier shots than with the normal loud shutter. No idea why this is, but I noticed the same thing on the Sony a57. Weird!

I would have expected the opposite. Do you have samples?


So would I! I will try to produce samples in the coming days. Needless to say, I have it switched off at the moment.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
a7+cv35/1.4:

DSC01565-2 by unoh7, on Flickr

a7 + nFD 20/2.8:

DSC01528 by unoh7, on Flickr

this seems to be one of the best UAWa on both sonys, 297g, and value about 225USD for exe. Smile


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="Nordentro"][quote="DSG"][quote="ManualFocus-G"]
DSG wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote:
The colour shift issues are well documented for the a7r. Glad you are getting on better with the a7.



Yes true. It is only on short register distance lenses this is an issue, and even some wide RF lenses are not that bad really and can easely be fixed with software Wink

There is no "problems" with this on wide SLR lenses.


I don't understand this statement. Opticaly the distance is the exactly same, RF or SLR, retrofocus or not. A 28mm is a 28mm : distance between the optical center of the lens and the sensor. What is a register distance ?


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are two different varieties of wide-angle lens: short-focus lenses and retrofocus lenses. Short-focus lenses are generally made up of multiple glass elements whose shapes are more or less symmetrical in front of and behind the diaphragm. As the focal length decreases, the distance of the rear element of the lens from the film plane or digital sensor also decreases.

This makes short-focus wide-angle lenses undesirable for single-lens reflex cameras unless they are used with the reflex mirrors locked up. Short-focus lenses are widely used on large format view cameras and rangefinder cameras.

The retrofocus lens solves this proximity problem through an asymmetrical design that allows the rear element to be further away from the film plane than its effective focal length would suggest.

Register = distance flange to film plane/ sensor


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
since we are one the subject, a few more with the nFD 20/2.8


DSC02054 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC02067-2 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC01980 by unoh7, on Flickr

I really like it Smile This was a dark stormy day.

blende8 wrote:
Aren't both sensors out-resolve any lens?
From what I've read the very, very best lenses can resolve about 70 lines in the center.
The A7 has 80 lines and the A7r above 100.


A7(r)sensors don't come close to out resolve any lens. There are some good posts which explain this. You can see it's true since in the centers practically every lens looks better than most have ever seen it. Old summitars look sharp as hell in the center on an A7r.

The sensors are the limiting factor, not the glass. The a7r is really something in the center with some lenses, but the thick cover on the sensor plays havoc at wider apertures and smears horribly with a bunch of lenses wide open on the edges.

We need to give them hell about this because the fix is very simple, then we will really have something Smile

Last edited by uhoh7 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:50 am; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh no.. look how rubbish that is. Laughing

See you just can't use a wide angles on the a7

Quick. throw it away Laughing


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uhoh7 wrote:

blende8 wrote:
Aren't both sensors out-resolve any lens?
From what I've read the very, very best lenses can resolve about 70 lines in the center.
The A7 has 80 lines and the A7r above 100.


A7(r)sensors don't come close to out resolve any lens. There are some good posts which explain this. You can see it's true since in the centers practically every lens looks better than most have ever seen it. Old summitars look sharp as hell in the center on an A7r.

The sensors are the limiting factor, not the glass. The a7r is really something in the center with some lenses, but the thick cover on the sensor plays havoc at wider apertures and smears horribly with a bunch of lenses wide open on the edges.

We need to give them hell about this because the fix is very simple, then we will really have something Smile

Ok, I'm willing to learn and want to believe. Wink
Where is this explained, please?


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is an article from a Zeiss engineer ( ein deutscher Ingenieur, bitte) which explains it. There was a link on this forum to this article.
I forgot where unfortunately.
The article is difficult to understand for someone who is not a specialist. At the end he explains that the effects of the lens and of the sensor have not to be multiplied. So it is not a chain where the weakest element determines the performance.
His conclusion is that a good lens will always benefit from a better sensor.

It looks like the question , do the sensors outresolve the lenses ?, is not a good question.

Das ist was ich verstanden habe.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry , I ment " the effects have to be multiplied".
engineer instead of ingeneer...

Is there any possibility on this forum to correct a post after it was published and before someone answered ?


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
Sorry , I ment " the effects have to be multiplied".
engineer instead of ingeneer...

Is there any possibility on this forum to correct a post after it was published and before someone answered ?


If you are logged in you should see a red box, with "Edit" written in it, in the top right hand corner of your post. Click on it and you can edit your post.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
There is an article from a Zeiss engineer ( ein deutscher Ingenieur, bitte) which explains it. There was a link on this forum to this article.
I forgot where unfortunately.

The article is difficult to understand for someone who is not a specialist. At the end he explains that the effects of the lens and of the sensor have not to be multiplied. So it is not a chain where the weakest element determines the performance.
His conclusion is that a good lens will always benefit from a better sensor.


(as you indicate in a later post the not should be removed)

This one : http://www.zeiss.co.uk/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN_31_MTF_en/$File/CLN_MTF_Kurven_2_en.pdf ?

Near the end of the article Dr. Nasse talks about ...

.... the misconception that only the resolution limit of the system determines the image quality and that it is identical to the resolution of the weakest link of this chain. This is not the case, though, since the curves are multiplied, ...

memetph wrote:
It looks like the question , do the sensors outresolve the lenses ?, is not a good question.

Genau.

Quote:
Das ist was ich verstanden habe.

Ich auch.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sichko wrote:

This one : http://www.zeiss.co.uk/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN_31_MTF_en/$File/CLN_MTF_Kurven_2_en.pdf ?

Thank you very much!
Great stuff to read over the holidays.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You're welcome.

The first part is here : http://www.zeiss.co.uk/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN_30_MTF_en/$File/CLN_MTF_Kurven_EN.pdf


PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A7 + CV 35/1.2 v1 Smile


DSC02313 by unoh7, on Flickr

This is by far the highest performance 35 I have used on the A7, very little smearing even wide open.

f/5.6:

DSC02315-3 by unoh7, on Flickr

Happy Holidays to all Smile


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shutter vibrations may not be a problem after all on the A7R.

http://beforethecoffee.com/sony-a7r-vibration-comparison-with-nikon-d3-and-sony-nex-7/

This is a typical rumor blown out of proportions Confused


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another of my very first RF lenses, a pristine Canon LTM 85/1.9


DSC02982 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC03026 by unoh7, on Flickr


DSC03036-4 by unoh7, on Flickr


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did you shoot your cv 35 1.2 on the A7R too, and how was it? ( I consider this lens) Wink


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Shutter vibrations may not be a problem after all on the A7R.

http://beforethecoffee.com/sony-a7r-vibration-comparison-with-nikon-d3-and-sony-nex-7/

This is a typical rumor blown out of proportions Confused


Nice to know. Thanks.
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