Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Schneider lenses - why are they "slower"?
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have learned wide open photography is a tool used to isolate a subject, and to lead the eye. Many people do not like it, saying "that's out of focus", even when the subject is clearly and entirely in sharp focus, but everything else is a blur. The word "bokeh" seems to have arisen about the same time photographers added wide open photography to their skills kit. Before then vignetting was a popular way to isolate a subject. The advent of bokeh is the application of a fascinating background instead of vignette, imho.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
How about change the title to "Schneider lenses - Why they need to be faster if they are sharp enough at wide open"? Wink


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:


Theory 4: Something I haven't considered?


I would say that the German companies in general were a bit "lazy" during theses times, just relying on their pre-war success instead of steadily improving their optical constructions (as the Japanese did). Canon was best at marketing their (super)fast lenses - first normal lenses such as the f1.2 and f0.95 for the rangefinders, later the 1.2/55 ASPH, the 1.2/85 ASPH, the 1.4/24 APSH and the 2.8/300mm Fluorite for SLRs (around 1975). The aspherical lenses made by Canon were based on US technology, so it's NOT a genuine Canon development. Neither was the Japanese quality control system (another important reason for the success of Japanese cameras in the 1960s); this as well had US (military) origins.


S[/quote]

Elgeet had a first aspherical element containing prosumer lens, Kodak has a reputation in aspherical lens production for all kinds of purposes but I wonder whether you refer to Bell and Howell, the company that had commercial contacts with Canon. I recall from long ago a B&H patent on an 'intelligent" nut that recorded the different electric resistances between the two isolated thread walls of that nut and the metal screw running in it. Nuts like that placed in the numerical drive for the lathe tool (diamond) to create aspherical lenses or molds for aspherical lenses. Better feedback of the position/pressure of the diamond tool was possible that way.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:43 am    Post subject: aspheric innovation Reply with quote
No iddea of whether the timing was earlkier than others, but Kilfitts 90mm makro kilar at one point had a bi-radial lens element in order to minimize spherical aberration-. Cannot recall whether mr. Backs Zoomafr version kept that design. but certainly some german (and swiss) companies did innovate. There is even a fast f 0,9 Kern Aarau Switar for the Bolex D-mount as well as a faster than 1,8 version ogf the full format one.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: aspheric innovation Reply with quote
paulhofseth wrote:
... but certainly some german (and swiss) companies did innovate. There is even a fast f 0,9 Kern Aarau Switar for the Bolex D-mount ....


Some of the Kern f0.9 lenses were actually on the moon - starting with Apollo 10 they were used in cameras on board the Lunar Lander. A first version of the 0.9/18mm had ten lenses (in ten groups); this first one was used on Apollo 11 (first landing on the moon) as well. A later version with nine lenses in seven groups had less reflexes than the original design. Both lenses had an extremely high performance; the first version was resolving nearly 1000 Lp/mm in the center and about 300 Lp in the corners.

These lenses were constructed and built in a remarkably short time: NASA ordered three prototypes on July 10, 1968, and they were used during the first flight around the moon (during christmas 1968).

S


PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Schneider lenses - why are they "slower"? Reply with quote
connloyalist wrote:

Looking at the various lenses Schneider made in M42 and Exakta mounts in the 1950's and 60's, it seems to me that on average the maximum aperture of these lenses is smaller ("slower") than you see for lenses by Japanese companies in the 1970's and 80's.


I think the reason was basically economic. To understand, see how glass raw material costs for a 50mm lens vary with lens aperture, according to an old Zeiss publication:



The raw glass cost for an F1.4 lens is about 5x that of an F2 lens, and that of an F1.2 lens is 10x that of an F2 lens! It is easy to understand why the sales volumes of F1.4 and F1.2 lenses in the 1960s and 1970s were much lower than of F2 lenses.

Schneider was a relatively small optical company with relatively low production, so Schneider could not take advantage of the production scale like the Japanese giants Nikon, Canon, Minolta, etc., which also not only lenses, but cameras, too. A professional using a Nikon camera would prefer to buy a Nikon 50mm F1.4 lens instead of a Schneider lens of same aperture, unless the Schneider would be better or cheaper. Unfortunately for Schneider, the Japanese had already caught up with the German in terms of optical quality, and in terms of price, the German were never competitive (except, of course, East Germany with cheap Praktica cameras and Pentacon and Zeiss Jena lenses) .

I think it is clear now that the only way for Scheneider to have any production scale and be minimally competitive was to concentrate on the manufacture of normal lenses with aperture around F2.
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2