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"Scanning" a slide with 5d
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is an amazing lens. It is exciting I will have it back in my kit again soon as well Very Happy

ZEISS

I sound like a cheerleader Embarassed Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing speaking of cheerleaders... not really cheerleaders, but my favourite subject: the majorettes!
Again G2 and Planar 2/45 and Velvia. If I remember correctly, I took this photo wide open or almost (unusual choice for me at the carnival), because I wanted to create a space separation:

image 5


Note that you can read the tiny rides on the wool longsocks of the small girl on the right! Shocked Talk about texture! Surprised


Last edited by Orio on Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez, these last two are some killer shots! Shocked Save some of these for our shiny-new RF forum! Laughing


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katastrofo wrote:
Geez, these last two are some killer shots! Shocked Save some of these for our shiny-new RF forum! Laughing


Good idea, thanks!


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe the results you are getting. Its fantastic.

A picture with a little tutorial would be really nice.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schnauzer wrote:
I can't believe the results you are getting. Its fantastic.

A picture with a little tutorial would be really nice.


I will !
First I will photograph the bellows - but the picture would not look as meaningful and complete without the camera. So I need to photograph it all, too, using a film camera (as I don't have a second digital body).

As for tutorial I am a bit ashamed because I did not reach a result by knowing how to proceed, I shamelessly proceeded by tentatives and if I had to retrieve the right settings now, I'm not sure I would be able to Embarassed


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, when we get this all sussed-out I see a new wave using the Poiluian
method. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

congrats! great results from your slide!
I tried this method for year and it was not easy in the begin
with liveview the focus and setup is easier
but to obtain perfect sharpness, the focus need to be in micro-millimeter precision
I connect the cam to the PC and I focus using a self-made program who give me in real time the sharpness numerically
You have also to find a lens who give perfect border, no distortion and no CA, I got various result and now I use a rodagon
I use a flash, the 'scan' is very fast
It take some time to setup the distance of the bellow, now I have more than 2 bellow and I can dedicate one
The negative is also a challenge where you have to create profile to correct colors
I wish I could develop slide myself, this would be a nice alternative to digital

my setup


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow poilu, your setup is much more sophisticated than mine Surprised
Not to mention the custom software that measures sharpness! Shocked

I am not using all the 5D frame - I left out the borders. I don't need the whole resolution and I imagined that this measure would have spared me the CA and softness of edges.
Of course, it can't do much about the geometrical distortions - I will have to test the Industar for it.
So far, I would say that the tiny Russian has done an excellent job even if it's far from being the state of the art in reproductions (and certainly not as flat as a Rodagon).


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the interest of gathering more information, I have copied poilu's statement the other day regarding workflow for scans.

poilu, if you do not want me to utilize your quote, let me know and I will quickly delete the quote.

Here below:

poilu wrote:
Trifox wrote:
Can you tell me more details? Exp, ISO etc..

HeHe! Film doesn't have exif Very Happy
the film is Fuji Z200 (200 iso)
It was 7pm so I set f5.6, the speed was low but I am not sure about it
This place is always crowed, I had to wait 15 sec to find a hole and got less than 1s to fire
Btw I was completely lost with the 28mm. To much time with the cropped where 45mm (28mm on crop) is my minimum.

I scan with bellows. It take me 9min by film, 15 sec by frame (time for positioning film, scan is 1/200s)
After I open all the pics in pp camera raw and apply my preset who invert the pic and correct color.
I check the frame who need exposure and WB correction
I correct by batch of same condition with 'synchronize'
I save images as small jpg for reference and keep the selected raw as negative
Then I exif the jpg with the lens as I forget fast
The equivalent to 10Mp is easy as it is all the frame with my 40D
For 40Mp, I scan a part of the neg then resample to get the double of the size at 10Mp who correspond to a dslr of 40

It is quite boring. I could pay 8 euros to get a cd but I don't like their noise reduction and pseudo colors

I have a polaroid slide scanner sprintscan+ but it would take a long time to pass a whole film and correcting colors is not easy.

Flat scanner is also a solution but they are very slow and not so precise

sunshine wrote:
But it is also true that the 40D is the one delivering the message (neg shot with bellos and 40D

Without the 40D, I would never got back to film Wink
The 9 min scan by film is what decide me, also liveview is important for precise focus and frame positioning


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, there is an added bonus to using something like the 5D or any other digital camera with numerous settings.

Especially the white balance can be customized for the particular transparency! THAT is a huge benefit...

Also the fact that you can use FILM for the "raw" slide is wonderful, because of the permutations and variances among film types!

Also, this would make shooting film ESPECIALLY appealing, because with the film camera you are back to FULL FRAME! Surprised

And therefore, utilizing the manual focuslenses to their true potential! Wow!

And we all can recognize the tactile, pleasing sensation of using film cameras in the first place, so knowing that I could get a fine "photoscan"

of a slide just makes it thrilling to be using the
esoteric 35mm film cameras again...
and taking advantage of the versatility of the 35mm film cameras that have been built to perfection over all the years before digital cams came on the scene.

The unmitigated JOY of using something of quality, such as a Contax G2 - or other quality film camera = would be sustantiated with the knowledge that a digital conversion
via the photoscan could be very efficient!
There's an INCENTIVE to use the quality film cameras such as the G2....one could actually go on and on about this....

Exciting stuff. Very exciting!
I'm going to go find a bellows and slide copier system tomorrow!
I would love to try this, and maybe find a wonderful way to
preserve the 35mm transparency subjects from the past! AND the
future...! Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I share your excitement Larry!
Now I can digitize my Budapest slides in a reasonable time!

My setup is not sophisticated like poilu's, but probably the main thing is still there, that is, the advantage of using a duplicator attached to the bellows: once you set the focus accurately for one slide, you don't have to refocus anymore, as the distance will always be the same. Just set the lens to a good aperture (f/8 is usually best for this type of job, perhaps a bit less sharp than a f/5.6 but more even in the corners), mount the bellows on tripod and there you go, lighting is even on all pictures if you use an artificial source, so you just have to click, replace slide, click, replace slide etc... if fine tuning is needed, you will make it in RAW !


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now time for a 100% crop from image 4:



Not as clean as a digital, but still damn good I think, and - there is room for improvement, because:

1) I have not used the full resolution of the 5D (I can close nearer to the frame)

2) here I have used the in-camera standard sharpening. Perhaps, if I turn that off, and use some higher quality sharpening later instead, I might avoid that little watercolour effect you see on the bricks.

But all in all, I think it's way more than decent and not even to compare with what I get from my scanner. Note how the road sign on the bottom is well readable!


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
I might avoid that little watercolour effect you see on the bricks

it can be from noise reduction, check if you can disable it in breezebrowser
In pp, noise reduction and sharpening have default value, I always zero everything even for normal photo


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

poilu wrote:
Orio wrote:
I might avoid that little watercolour effect you see on the bricks

it can be from noise reduction, check if you can disable it in breezebrowser
In pp, noise reduction and sharpening have default value, I always zero everything even for normal photo


It can not be, I leave it set at zero too.
Probably the default sharpening of the 5D is good for normal photo but not appropriate for duplications.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are great results - now I've got bellows and a slide holder I must dig out some old slides.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard wrote:
I must dig out some old slides

I just did the same. As I don't have fresh slides, I found some 10 years old one




contrast worked on portrait to enhance details

with the flash, you can get back underexposed details
this is the bag in lower left corner of the above portrait


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poilu how do you hold the film strip in place? Do you have a special holder(not slide) or did you build it yourself?


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I almost flipped over backwards, looking at these new duplications. Orio's photoscan with the clown simply is MILES ahead of what I can get out of my V700, and that is obvously without any tweaks to his image, and without taking away some of the automatic settings that might have degraded things a little.

The detail in the dark black bag poilu, just about made me drop my coffee! What a GREAT trick, using the flash!


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the film strip is visible on the pic of my setup, it is the slide attachment who work for slide mounted or in strip
click here to see it better
have you a link to your duplicator, I cannot understand how it is
how do you rate the resolution of my last samples ?


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poilu wrote:
the film strip is visible on the pic of my setup, it is the slide attachment who work for slide mounted or in strip
click here to see it better
have you a link to your duplicator, I cannot understand how it is


AH, I see - your duplicator allows you to use both frame and strip.
Mine is not Contax, it's Pentax M42 and only allows for frame (it does not have lateral holes to pass filmstrip through)

poilu wrote:
how do you rate the resolution of my last samples ?


Excellent, better than mine. Your Rodagon kicks. How do you attach it to your contax duplicator? As far as I know Rodagons have M39 mount.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
How do you attach it to your contax duplicator? As far as I know Rodagons have M39 mount

m39 > m42 > c/y


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am able to photograph film stripes!!
I found that I can open the little box of the duplicator!

But - I have tried to photograph a colour negative, I can only do it with the special Rollei film, because the normal colour film has the orange mask so even inverting the picture it does not look ok Sad


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the best that I could do: Sad



And as you can see, sharpness leaves a lot to be desired (probably caused by non flat film stripe


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I have improved the sharpness (considerably!), perhaps also a bit the colour, but it still looks strange, actually, it could be used as a special effect, like for faking old prints Rolling Eyes