Rollei Retro 80 120. Light leak?

wupdigoj · Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 85

Here you can see a sample from one of my lastest roll of this film, Rodinal 1+100, stand developing.

Observe that the texture, the markings and the numbering of the backing paper has been transfered to the film. The backing paper is white and the numbers are black. Apparently there are massive light leaks, or the film is fogged, but:

- The camera has no light leaks. 400 ISO film is fine.
- The fogging is mainly present where the negative is more exposed. No fogging in the borders or in the gaps between pictures.
- The first negatives are completely ruined, but the effect in only neglegible in the last picture of the roll.
- The first 4 rolls of this batch were fine, but the negatives were comparatively thin. The film has been stored properly and is still fresh.

Any ideas about what has caused this effect?. Perhaps the batch is deffective (only the 3 lastest rolls show this effect)?. Thanks

Javier

erkie · Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 308 Location: Missouri

Was this film loaded into the camera in darkness or at least very subdued light ? I've had problems with the edges of the film until I started loading in a changing bag when out and about.

mmelvis · Expire: 2015-05-09

Possible light reflecting back onto the film with the white backing

David · Expire: 2013-01-25

Did you buy it from overseas? I have the same issue with ShangHai and Lucky-brand 120. I thought it was a light leak until ALL my 120s did it, but ONLY with ShangHai and Lucky. I believe that the x-ray or radiation scans do this as the damaging rays pass through the differently-inked paper in a more or less damaging manner than they do the uniformly-inked paper.

F16SUNSHINE · Expire: 2011-11-18

This film has no anti Halation layer. This kind of thing is going to happen at times.
Is your pressure plate flat black (not reflective in any way? Are you exposing correctly?
Light can do strange things from one frame to the next with no AH present.
Especially when light is bright.

David · Expire: 2013-01-25

Check also if those are frames 10 and 11. If they are, then I would refine my vote to light leak or not-firm plate. If they are frames 11 and 12, then the damage came when they were on the spool and the numbers 10 and 11 were behind the film. The latter would indicate x-ray damage.

wupdigoj · Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 85

Thank you all for your replies. They are very enlightening.
erkie: the film was loaded properly, in a very subdued light and, as you say, direct sunlight would probably affect the borders.

mmelvis: obviously the paper is flat back in the film side (and perfectly opaque, as far as I can judge), so probably this is not a reflection.

David: this was also my guest, but I supposed it was infrared radiation (this film sensitive to IR). I think yours is the most logical explanation.

F16SUNSHINE: are your sure the film has no anti halation layer?. The presoak water before developing is allways heavily tinted. Moreover, the numbers and marks are not in the side of the paper in contact with the film, but in the other side, so the eventually reflected light would have to go through the paper and back. I don't think the pressure plate would have any role here, not with 120 film and the backing paper.

I think the frames were 10-11 (not in fact, but their position more or less fit with the 10-11 numbers for 6x4.5). But what puzzles me is the fact that the numbers are not mirrored. If the numbers' image would be caused by x-rays It should be mirrored, or am i mistaken?

Thanks again

Javier

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

-1
If it would be x-ray you would see a lot more different shadows of numbers and dots on the film as it was rolled on the spool while it was exposed.
Also X ray radtions would not care much about most black paint (as long it's not based on lead etc.) and would go through it without visible extinction.

And where are you living? The Rollei-Rebrander is based in Germany. If you are living in the EU/EG there should be no possible Xray device on the way.

But Rollei Retro 80s is a panchromatic fim and very sensitive to infrared... I would say it's simple IR-sunlight which got through the paper-back of the film while loading the film or maybe even through the body of the camera?

Has your camera a deep-red window on the backsite like some old folders? IR has no problem going through that so that would explain everything.

F16SUNSHINE · Expire: 2011-11-18

Well I was sure about the AH layer but now I'm not.
If you are getting a blue dye while washing I think there is a AH dye layer.

I agree with ForenSeil that x-ray makes no sense when you see the numbers. There should be nothing in the ink of the paper that would stop x ray from evenly fogging the entire film.

At any event I would return any unused rolls.

piticu · Joined: 04 Aug 2008 Posts: 591 Location: Romania

David · Expire: 2013-01-25

I'm sticking with x-rays. For my evidence, look at how the numbers line up on the images. Had these imaged been damaged by light from behind, coming through in the same red window, then the numbers ten and eleven would be horizontally aligned identically on the two images because the numbering would correspond to the image location. The tens and elevens, however, are NOT horizontally aligned the same, a difference which can ONLY be explained by the different radii each wind of a film spool has. Therefore, the damage could only have occurred when the film was still wrapped on the spool. And these having such high numbers, then they would have been located at the center of the spool when the damage occurred, likely ruling out any sort of visible light, unless that light can pass through about a dozen layers of film and paper. I don't know of anything that can do that except x-rays.

erkie · Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 308 Location: Missouri

David · Expire: 2013-01-25

Hmm. That is a good point. I got nothing to counter it except a dogmatic adherence to my previous standpoint. Very Happy

erkie · Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 308 Location: Missouri

wupdigoj · Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 85

Thank you again. Of course it does not make sense that the Xrays could be atenuated by paint. I am pretty sure the camera is not leaking light, unless the fogging is due to infrared. The camera is an Iskra with a retrofitted red window, but I am very careful with it and it is always covered. Perhaps IR radiation can penetrate the camera back (or the bellows) and the backing paper?

I live in Spain and bought the film also in Spain (http://www.foto-r3.com/en). Never had a problem with them, but they are not very helpful. I wrote them explaining the problem and had no answer.

David, I don't quite understand your comment about the position of the numbers. I agree they are marks to 6x4.5. Should they be in the bottom of the frame instead of the top (the image of course is upside down)?. If so, I don't understand why they are there!!

Javier