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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1552
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject: Rokkor 58mm f/1.2 question |
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blotafton wrote:
That Rokkor lens was made for quite a few years and underwent changes along the way.
I own a late copy of that lens Snr: 2770060, No "PG" label. I't a great lens no questions about that, but I've been wondering what I'm missing out on compared with an older, radioactive copy. If anyone have both new and old versions and have shot them side by side I'd like to hear if there is any difference. Or even better, can post some samples.
Cheers! |
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shapencolour
Joined: 03 Oct 2013
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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shapencolour wrote:
As far as I know you're lucky.You've got a pretty rare copy of this wonderful lens ,(7 elements,five groups),with the newer MD coating and without a radioactive (thoriated) glass element inside.I look forward to some sample pictures. 
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1552
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
Oh, I didn't know about the coating! And in that case it was luck, since I didn't look for a specific version, just grabbed the first one  So far I've only taken a few shots on film
Velvia 100
Velvia 100
Portra 160
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kenetik
Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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kenetik wrote:
Can you post a pic of the lens? I didn't think there was an MD version of the 58 1.2. I am aware of multiple MC Rokkor variations but thought it was replaced by the 50 1.2 with the introduction of the MD lenses in 1978, nor was I aware of a different optical formula for this lens.
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I buy lots of lenses and sometimes I even use them... |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1552
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
Here you go. It is a MC ROKKOR, it's just missing the PG.
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Mir
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 976
Location: Montreal, Canada
Expire: 2017-09-30
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Mir wrote:
March, 1973
- MC Rokkor-X PG 58/1,2 [7/5] (ø55mm) 0,6m f/16 70,8x54mm 478g
Up-dated fast standard. Where Minolta moved away from 55, 58, even 53 mm focal lengths in standard lenses with this series, this particular lens was already perfect, so nothing was changed. While the other standard lenses of the series never lost their two-letter optical codes, this one is sometimes found without its -PG (it’s because this lens was actually sold into the MD era).
Excerpts from RED Bailey’s Minolta Collection web site
This lens was still being sold in 1974 therefore we can suppose that the new MD coating was applied on the last ones sold,
presumebly on those without "PG".... but i have no proof of that...
_________________
"Obsta principiis, finem respice"
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness"
MISC: Tamron SP 35-80 (01A), Auto Chinon Tomioka 1.4/55, Tokina AT-X 2.5/90, Tamron SP 5,6/300 (54B)
ZEISS: WG Distagon 2.8/25, WG Distagon 2.8/35 HFT, WG Planar HFT 1.4/50, Ultron 1.8/50, WG Sonnar 2.8/85, WG Sonnar HFT 2.8/135
VOIGTLÄNDER : Ultron Aspherical 1.8/21, Ultron 2/28, Nokton Aspherical 1.2/35, Nokton Classic 1.4/40, Nokton Aspherical 1.5/50, Color-Heliar 2.5/75
MINOLTA: MD 3.5/35-70 Macro, MD 1.2/50, MC Rokkor-X 1.2/58, MD Macro 3.5/50
LEITZ: SUMMICRON-R 2/35 (II), SUMMICRON-R 2/50 (II), TELE ELMARIT-M 2,8/90 (Thin)
CANON RF: 2.8/28, 2/35, 1.2/50, 1.4/50, Serenar 1.8/50, 2/85, 2/100, 3.5/100
LTM : KMZ Jupiter-8 2/5cm, TOKYO KOGAKU Topcor-S 2/5cm, CHIYOKO SUPER ROKKOR C 2/5cm, Nippon Kogaku NIKKOR-H.C 2/5cm, FUJI FILM CO. FUJINON L 2/5cm
And a small Minolta AF set: 2.8/20, 1.4/35, 1.4/50, 2/100, 4.5/100-200
@we3fotography
@7plus_pictures
@_whats.that.car_ |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3669
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Looks like blotafton is going to have to buy an older version to compare. 
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A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1552
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
| Mir wrote: |
March, 1973
- MC Rokkor-X PG 58/1,2 [7/5] (ø55mm) 0,6m f/16 70,8x54mm 478g
Up-dated fast standard. Where Minolta moved away from 55, 58, even 53 mm focal lengths in standard lenses with this series, this particular lens was already perfect, so nothing was changed. While the other standard lenses of the series never lost their two-letter optical codes, this one is sometimes found without its -PG (it’s because this lens was actually sold into the MD era).
Excerpts from RED Bailey’s Minolta Collection web site
This lens was still being sold in 1974 therefore we can suppose that the new MD coating was applied on the last ones sold,
presumebly on those without "PG".... but i have no proof of that... |
A reasonable conclusion.
| Lightshow wrote: |
| Looks like blotafton is going to have to buy an older version to compare. |
Now that's mean!
Though that thought has crossed my mind about 234 times already |
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radissimo77
Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 111
Location: Glasgow
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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radissimo77 wrote:
I have both versions, the PG version has more green coating (SN:25*****), the non-PG (SN:27*****) has more clear/very slight purple/yellow coating.
PG ver. almost seems more "coated"....
Both are the rubber focusing ring versions
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Sony A7 ,A7s, 5T, Ricoh GR,Pana LX100, Canon G7x...& too many MF lenses to list |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1552
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
| radissimo77 wrote: |
I have both versions, the PG version has more green coating (SN:25*****), the non-PG (SN:27*****) has more clear/very slight purple/yellow coating.
PG ver. almost seems more "coated"....
Both are the rubber focusing ring versions |
Does the older one contain thorium, or is it only the metal barrel ones that do?
I welcome a comparison nonetheless! |
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kenetik
Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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kenetik wrote:
From FredMiranda:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/833131
One other notable difference is the presence of thorium (radioactive) glass in the first few runs. Lenses with serial numbers 200xxxx, 250xxxx, 255xxxx, and at least some of the 256xxxx have this. Lenses from 257xxxx through 27xxxxx series do not.
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I buy lots of lenses and sometimes I even use them... |
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kenetik
Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:00 am Post subject: |
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kenetik wrote:
| radissimo77 wrote: |
I have both versions, the PG version has more green coating (SN:25*****), the non-PG (SN:27*****) has more clear/very slight purple/yellow coating.
PG ver. almost seems more "coated"....
Both are the rubber focusing ring versions |
+1, had to look at my copy when I got home. It's also a 27xxxxxx serial without the PG, with the orange ROKKOR-X branding. It has the same purple/yellowish coloration in the coating.
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I buy lots of lenses and sometimes I even use them... |
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radissimo77
Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 111
Location: Glasgow
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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radissimo77 wrote:
These are the last versions, your is for USA market with -X suffix.
I was just surprised that coating is way more visible on my older -PG version.
Both are non-radioactive ones.
I will test them for flare/contrast soon.
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Sony A7 ,A7s, 5T, Ricoh GR,Pana LX100, Canon G7x...& too many MF lenses to list |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1552
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:13 am Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
| kenetik wrote: |
| radissimo77 wrote: |
I have both versions, the PG version has more green coating (SN:25*****), the non-PG (SN:27*****) has more clear/very slight purple/yellow coating.
PG ver. almost seems more "coated"....
Both are the rubber focusing ring versions |
+1, had to look at my copy when I got home. It's also a 27xxxxxx serial without the PG, with the orange ROKKOR-X branding. It has the same purple/yellowish coloration in the coating. |
In that case there is some variation, mine has the mostly yellow and green coating.
| radissimo77 wrote: |
These are the last versions, your is for USA market with -X suffix.
I was just surprised that coating is way more visible on my older -PG version.
Both are non-radioactive ones.
I will test them for flare/contrast soon. |
I'm looking forward to that! |
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vlousada
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Posts: 345
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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vlousada wrote:
Hi,
I have this note (hosted in MS OneNote) regarding that lens.
I copied it from one website or forum, but some update of Onenote lost the source of it, sorry!
| Quote: |
~
Here is a brief manufacture history:
Version 1 (1968-1969) Serial# Range 200-257
58mm MC Rokkor-PG F/1.2 (Introduced on September 16th 1968
Radioactive Coatings
Metal Focus Ring
Silver Aperture Ring
Flathead Screws
Version 2 (1969-1973) Serial# Range 258-259
58mm MC Rokkor-PG F/1.2
Improved (Non-Radioactive Coatings)
Rubber Focus Ring
Black Aperture Ring
Philips Screws
Version 3 (1973-1978) Serial# Range 271-277
58mm MC Rokkor-X (in orange) PG F/1.2 (Designated Rokkor-X only in the USA & Canada)
In the rest of the world it was labeled Rokkor (with white lettering)
It debuted in March 1973 (Other Rokkor-X lenses arrived earlier in 1972)
Improved Coatings from Version 2
Which vintage is the best? That is hard to say. Good samples have been found from all groups.
There is evidence that the older radioactive, metal focus ring copies are the best.
Some fans who have purchased a dozen or more samples really prefer the older copies.
There is that sample variation factor though.
My copy is the old style with the so called coveted serial number that is in the 250XXXX range.
Your mileage may vary but in my book the 58mm/1.2 Rokkor definitely deserve its underground cult status (its becoming more well known now though.)
It really is one of the finest lenses ever made...
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SELLING:
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1552
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
So we can go as far as guessing that the final version of coating is the " slight purple/yellow coating" that looked weaker than other versions?
In that case it's odd that mine (277****) has yellow-orange/ green colors, with just a little bit of purple in there. |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Didn't find any better thread to continue....
Here is another example picture from my MC Rokkor-PG 58mm/F1.2 serial 250xxxx, taken with my Sony A7R2 on Techart AF adapter @F1.2:
In terms of bokeh one of my favorite lenses, no doubt about that.
_________________
Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Mir
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 976
Location: Montreal, Canada
Expire: 2017-09-30
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Mir wrote:
Minolta MC Rokkor-PG 1.2/58 - ø55 - 8 blades - MFD: 60cm - sn. 2505149 - 1969 (MC-II)
Minolta MC Rokkor-X 1.2/58 - ø55 - 8 blades - MFD: 60cm - sn. 2742414 - 1974 (MC-X)
_________________
"Obsta principiis, finem respice"
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness"
MISC: Tamron SP 35-80 (01A), Auto Chinon Tomioka 1.4/55, Tokina AT-X 2.5/90, Tamron SP 5,6/300 (54B)
ZEISS: WG Distagon 2.8/25, WG Distagon 2.8/35 HFT, WG Planar HFT 1.4/50, Ultron 1.8/50, WG Sonnar 2.8/85, WG Sonnar HFT 2.8/135
VOIGTLÄNDER : Ultron Aspherical 1.8/21, Ultron 2/28, Nokton Aspherical 1.2/35, Nokton Classic 1.4/40, Nokton Aspherical 1.5/50, Color-Heliar 2.5/75
MINOLTA: MD 3.5/35-70 Macro, MD 1.2/50, MC Rokkor-X 1.2/58, MD Macro 3.5/50
LEITZ: SUMMICRON-R 2/35 (II), SUMMICRON-R 2/50 (II), TELE ELMARIT-M 2,8/90 (Thin)
CANON RF: 2.8/28, 2/35, 1.2/50, 1.4/50, Serenar 1.8/50, 2/85, 2/100, 3.5/100
LTM : KMZ Jupiter-8 2/5cm, TOKYO KOGAKU Topcor-S 2/5cm, CHIYOKO SUPER ROKKOR C 2/5cm, Nippon Kogaku NIKKOR-H.C 2/5cm, FUJI FILM CO. FUJINON L 2/5cm
And a small Minolta AF set: 2.8/20, 1.4/35, 1.4/50, 2/100, 4.5/100-200
@we3fotography
@7plus_pictures
@_whats.that.car_ |
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 1658
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
I had the "X" versión but the coated of the first element was green. |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021
Posts: 1266
Location: Kent, UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
| tb_a wrote: |
Didn't find any better thread to continue....
Here is another example picture from my MC Rokkor-PG 58mm/F1.2 serial 250xxxx, taken with my Sony A7R2 on Techart AF adapter @F1.2:
In terms of bokeh one of my favorite lenses, no doubt about that. |
One of my favourite lenses too, lovely bokeh.
I have to ask; looks friendly enough, but what is that thing?
_________________
Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021
Posts: 1266
Location: Kent, UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
| papasito wrote: |
| I had the "X" versión but the coated of the first element was green. |
That green inner coating on the first element of early Rokkors is like a Padrón pepper: you won't know if it is a later hard green coating or an early soft green coating until you touch it...
So if you want to clean the inside (green) coating of an early Rokkor lens, be very careful! The slightest mechanical contact on the soft one will scratch it; that one can only be rinsed with a solvent!
_________________
Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
| RokkorDoctor wrote: |
| I have to ask; looks friendly enough, but what is that thing? |
It's a piggy bank. One of my favorite objects for lens testing. 
_________________
Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 1658
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:04 am Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
| RokkorDoctor wrote: |
| papasito wrote: |
| I had the "X" versión but the coated of the first element was green. |
That green inner coating on the first element of early Rokkors is like a Padrón pepper: you won't know if it is a later hard green coating or an early soft green coating until you touch it...
So if you want to clean the inside (green) coating of an early Rokkor lens, be very careful! The slightest mechanical contact on the soft one will scratch it; that one can only be rinsed with a solvent! |
Yes, you are right.
I had this problem with the inner element of the 58/1,4 MC And with the MC 50/1,4. |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1552
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
Ah this old thread.
I still have the lens and love it.
If I get another f/1.2 it would be a Hexanon 57mm or Zuiko 50mm that I like photos from.
Here are some shots.
The last two are taken with badly aged Sensia 200, 19 years old.
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Dejan
Joined: 05 Jan 2021
Posts: 141
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Dejan wrote:
I must say, the look of that old, aged film and this old lens go so well hand in hand. That's what I'd call a "dreamy" look. Must be one of those "happy accidents" with expired film. |
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