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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015 Posts: 1658
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
Thanks for all guys.
I will stay with the rokkor 45/2. |
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Rick1779
Joined: 17 May 2013 Posts: 1207 Location: Italy
Expire: 2014-06-06
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Rick1779 wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Rick1779 wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
They are the same focal length (43.2mm), just Konica rounded down and Minolta rounded up. |
where did you find informations on the exact focal lenght? |
Sorry, I can't remember! |
No problem at all, was just curious about it
Now I can troll some pentaxians with the 43 limited _________________ TELLTALE
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015 Posts: 1658
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
I read the same about the FL of the two lenses. Only a bit different, the FL should be 42 or 43 mm for both. |
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Peter von Reichenberg
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1 Location: Prague, CZ
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Peter von Reichenberg wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
They are the same focal length (43.2mm), just Konica rounded down and Minolta rounded up. |
No, not true - I have them both. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:36 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I have them both too, what's not true?
Lenses are rarely the exact focal length they are supposed to be, rather, there is a spread. For instance, you might have a lens design that is supposed to be 43.2mm, but manufacturing tolerances mean that the lenses you make to that design come out anywhere between 41 and 46mm.
For general photography, this is not an issue, but when you get into high precision work, such as process photography for printing, especially when producing CMYK separations for colour printing, it is an issue, so you will find that most process lenses have the exact focal length scribed onto them, usually on the back. An example of this is the 540mm Wollensak Apochromatic Raptar I have, it has 543.1mm written on the rear of the barrel with an electropencil. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:42 am Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
Peter von Reichenberg wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
They are the same focal length (43.2mm), just Konica rounded down and Minolta rounded up. |
No, not true - I have them both. |
+1
I made the comparison too . The Haxanon is clearly wider. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3751 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Lenses are rarely the exact focal length they are supposed to be, rather, there is a spread. For instance, you might have a lens design that is supposed to be 43.2mm, but manufacturing tolerances mean that the lenses you make to that design come out anywhere between 41 and 46mm. |
Not true as well
There were times - usually ending in the early 1960s - when specific lens designs were re-calculated according to each batch of glass used. This may have caused slight derivations of the effective focal lengths, but they were never as distinct as you claim them to be.
Of course the Hexanon AR 1.8/40mm is wider than the Minolta MD 2/45mm. I have them both as well. And the Hexanon - due to its unconventional construction - results in a better overall performance, at least on 24MP FF.
Stephan _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Well, I much prefer the Minolta 2/45, but I've never been anally retentive enough to care too much about the technical minutiae, I just take pictures and trust my eyes as to what is good enough or not. The Minolta has a very nice rendering and bright saturated colours, I've made some very nice images with it, two of which I've actually sold prints of, so to me, it's a fine lens and performs more than adequately.
I worked out a long time ago that there are some people who know a lot about technical crap to do with photography but take bloody awful photographs from an aesthetic, artistic point of view. I'm sure if those people spent more time taking pictures with an intent to create something aesthetically pleasing or with artistic merit then they would become far better photographers; spending lots of time analysing the technical minutiae of lenses is not going to do a damn thing to improve one's photography skills so it is of marginal interest to me. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
I don't have any Konica lenses at all but I have the Minolta MD 45mm/F2 and like it very much.
Example picture at F2:
Here's my introduction of this lens if you want so see some more: http://forum.mflenses.com/minolta-md-rokkor-45mm-f2-t73268.html _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
That picture shows exactly why I like the Minolta 2/45 - the smoothness of the rendering and the bright, saturated colours. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Sjak
Joined: 29 Sep 2017 Posts: 696
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Sjak wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Well, I much prefer the Minolta 2/45, but I've never been anally retentive enough to care too much about the technical minutiae, I just take pictures and trust my eyes as to what is good enough or not. The Minolta has a very nice rendering and bright saturated colours, I've made some very nice images with it, two of which I've actually sold prints of, so to me, it's a fine lens and performs more than adequately.
I worked out a long time ago that there are some people who know a lot about technical crap to do with photography but take bloody awful photographs from an aesthetic, artistic point of view. I'm sure if those people spent more time taking pictures with an intent to create something aesthetically pleasing or with artistic merit then they would become far better photographers; spending lots of time analysing the technical minutiae of lenses is not going to do a damn thing to improve one's photography skills so it is of marginal interest to me. |
I understand your point of view here.
Then again, without people with the technical knowledge, who would be able to design the lenses we love so much? |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3751 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
I worked out a long time ago that there are some people who know a lot about technical crap to do with photography but take bloody awful photographs from an aesthetic, artistic point of view. |
Of course there are such people.
BUT: Most of the most outstanding photographers were/are using the very best equipment available at their time.
Just think of
* Ansel Adams
* Henri Cartier-Bresson
* Sebastiao Salgado
* Richard Avedon
... and many many others
I think they know what they are doing, but i may be wrong, of course.
Stephan _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015 Posts: 1658
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
WNG555 wrote: |
........... If it's a Konica, then go for the 50mm f/1.7. Better lens in every way.
For Minolta, a better buy and lens would be the late MD 50mm f/1.7 or f/2. Crazy sharp, and can be found for under $10 USD. |
The comparision should be an excellent way to know cons and pros of each fo those very good lenses.
It seems a thing to do. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes, you're wrong, they used equipment that was capable of doing what they wanted and didn't care if there was technically better available.
Ansel Adams for example used the same Cooke Convertible for over 40 years and no doubt, in that time frame, technically 'better', more advanced designs came along. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015 Posts: 1658
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
Some did it, some not
Obviously, we are not one of them.
Some of us like to play with the lenses, and into that game, one of the things to know is which are the best.
Adams, Salgao, C-B, had their own game. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3751 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Yes, you're wrong, they used equipment that was capable of doing what they wanted and didn't care if there was technically better available.
Ansel Adams for example used the same Cooke Convertible for over 40 years and no doubt, in that time frame, technically 'better', more advanced designs came along. |
Many of the most iconic images of Ansel Adams were taken with a Hasselblad, certainly the most sophisticated and capable SLR of its time, e. g. for "The Dome".
Obviously - as i found with a quick internet search - he was using many of the very best large format lenses of the time:
"I know he used the 10" Wide Field Ektar, Turner Reich 12-1/4" triple convertible and 12" Dagor for some of his more famous photographs."
"I also seem to recall a letter to Weston suggesting a Protar, which he suggested offered the most "life-like" image, although the Dagor offered more enlargement potential - so he probably fooled around with the Protar also."
"Ansel used an 18" Zeiss Apo-Tessar on his 8x10. He also used an 18" on the 4x5 (Frozen Lake and Cliffs, Sierra Nevada) which may have been the aforementioned lens. "
Stephan _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It's long past the time when you should have shut up because you're completely off-topic and just being pedantic and annoying.
We can all throw up quotes to support our points, but it doesn't mean we have the definitive answer, and besides, it's got nothing to do with the Rokkor or Hexanon under discussion.
Quote: |
In 1932, Horace W. Lee patented (British patent 376,044) the Cooke Series XV Triple Convertible, which provided three focal lengths, with each half comprising two cemented doublets. The components gave excellent performance throughout the various focal length combinations.
Ansel Adams, famous American landscape photographer, shot many of his most famous images using this lens, as documented in his book "Examples: The Making of 40 Photographs." He appeared on BBC-TV stating that he used a convertible lens for many of his photos, then said, almost as a throw-away line, "A Cooke of course."This lens was made between 1935 through about 1962. The Series XV lens is difficult to find on the used market today, but is still sought-after by 8x10 inch format photographers due to it exemplary performance. |
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Sjak
Joined: 29 Sep 2017 Posts: 696
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Sjak wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
It's long past the time when you should have shut up because you're completely off-topic and just being pedantic and annoying. |
And this type of remarks clearly takes the forum to a higher level?
I noticed in quite some more threads that whenever there is a perceived disagreement with something you said, you often react with disproportionate language. I am sure that in real life, e.g. in a pub, in a similar difference in point of view, you would react differently. The safety of your keyboard is no excuse for insults.
You will need to understand and accept, that on an open internet forum, not everyone will agree with you all the time.
It's a shame that you sometimes react like this, because on other matters, you often have a lot of good input. |
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Well, I much prefer the Minolta 2/45, but I've never been anally retentive enough to care too much about the technical minutiae, I just take pictures and trust my eyes as to what is good enough or not. The Minolta has a very nice rendering and bright saturated colours, I've made some very nice images with it, two of which I've actually sold prints of, so to me, it's a fine lens and performs more than adequately.
I worked out a long time ago that there are some people who know a lot about technical crap to do with photography but take bloody awful photographs from an aesthetic, artistic point of view. I'm sure if those people spent more time taking pictures with an intent to create something aesthetically pleasing or with artistic merit then they would become far better photographers; spending lots of time analysing the technical minutiae of lenses is not going to do a damn thing to improve one's photography skills so it is of marginal interest to me. |
What is this theory ? Most great composers, painters and photographers were very much interested, if not obsessed, by the technical things. There is no contradiction between technique and art . |
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Arutemu
Joined: 16 Oct 2014 Posts: 72 Location: US/Japan
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Arutemu wrote:
I love the Rokkor 45/2. Compact, lightweight, well-made and good IQ. Not sure why people even discuss "rendering" and "saturated colors" in the age of digital photography. If you shoot in RAW (as well you should), "rendering" and colors will be what you decide them to be in post-processing
Some of my shots w/Rokkor 45/2
Spring colors by Artem, on Flickr
Nightly comforts by Artem, on Flickr
夕顔 by Artem, on Flickr _________________ 住めば都 |
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:38 am Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
I don’t think that you can recover in postprocessing something that the lens did not catch .
It does not make sense even to try. Just buy the lens you like. |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7548 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
If you don't mind the color accuracy or fidelity, you don't need a good lens. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16498 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:57 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
If you don't mind the color accuracy or fidelity, you don't need a good lens. |
Cannot more than agree to that! _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but decided to put my opinion in.
Looks like I am in the minority, but it's the Konica 40 for me. I prefer the rendering and character.
I use the lens on APS-C though.
It's a mess wide open at distance, but more than sharp enough wide open close up in the dark.
Stopping down to the next stop at f/2.8 and beyond the lens becomes scary sharp.
At least these MTF50 charts show the Konica to be sharper once stopped down:
Konica 40 1.8:
https://erphotoreview.com/wordpress/?p=1902
Minolta 45 2:
https://erphotoreview.com/wordpress/?p=2079#1 |
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Alun Thomas
Joined: 20 Aug 2018 Posts: 614 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Alun Thomas wrote:
With regards to the actual focal length og the Konica 40, I heard they rounded the other way, that the 40/1.8 was derived from their earlier 38/1.8 as fitted to some of their rangefinder cameras. The only place I could find that was: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Konica_Auto_SE_Electronic (see footnote at end of page), although I'm sure I saw it somewhere else too. Either way, it's hard to supply proof now. I have both lenses but aren't at home to check. And, tbh, I'd use either and not be too worried I wouldn't capture detail...
edit: having said that, another, reasonably authoritative, source refers to a 42-43mm focal length:
"On their quest for more compact lens designs, some manufacturers, Konica amongst them, developed so-called pancake lenses during the late 70s. These lenses with a real focal length of 42-43 mm could be built extremly flat – hence the name."
https://www.buhla.de/Foto/Konica/Objektive/e40_18.html
That source must be referring to some basic lens-design parameter all such pancake lenses had in common, and may be related to the native flange-film distance of most SLR cameras. |
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