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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:28 am Post subject: Risks of Buying a Lens With Fungus Issues |
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charley5 wrote:
Hi Everyone:
I have a chance to buy two cine lenses from a dealer here in India. They come in a two for one sale on eBay. However, the seller says that one of the lenses has fungus spots "inside". The seller says:"The fungus is from inside. Please note that as of now the lens can be used without cleaning & will give Exc results."
I tend to over-react to such things. So I want to check with this forum. Can the fungus spread to other lenses? Not only my lenses but even his lenses? I have expensive camera equipment which is fungus free. I keep all my equipment in coolers with desiccant. I will probably end up throwing away the fungus-blighted lens or offer a lower price without this lens, but does that mean I should not buy from him generally?
Anyways, any opinions on this topic will be appreciated.
-Charles |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:01 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
Fungus is already everywhere. Lenses get affected by it when used and or stored in moist conditions. As long as you keep the lens dry the fungus isn't going anywhere. You could of course try to clean of the fungus. _________________ pentaxian |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5019 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
As Dino says.....what I do with fungus on a lens bought is point the lens in direct sunlight (or UV source) and this usually kills it or at least send it dormant and if the lens is kept in a dry atmosphere preferably somewhere with moving air you should have no further problems. But of course if you can clean the lens it would be best esp if on the back element as this has more effect on the quality of your shot than if on the front lens. _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3751 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
While now I'm earning my money with photography, I've been studying chemistry and working at University in the field of mass spectrometry. Which means that there's some background here.
To get visible fungus growth inside a lens, you need
1) spores
2) "food" (e. g. dirt or fat / soap [=lubricants])
3) the right conditions (temperature, humidity)
The main reason leading to fungus growth is "food". As long as your lenses are internally clean, there will be no fungus - even though spores may ber there, and temperature/moisture may be suitable. To turn it the other way round - if you have focus growth inside a lens, it ususally points to another problem: That there is dirt and/or fat/soap from the lubricants on a glass surface. Which means that the lens should be cleand anyway!
I do not hesitate to buy "fungus" lenses if they are rare, and I keep them side-by-side with other (clean!) lenses. I've never seen spreading fungus from a dirty lens to a clean one.
Stephan _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
D1N0 wrote: |
Fungus is already everywhere. Lenses get affected by it when used and or stored in moist conditions. As long as you keep the lens dry the fungus isn't going anywhere. You could of course try to clean of the fungus. |
The fungus is apparently inside the lens. I wasn't sure whether that posed a problem for other lenses that get stored with it.
-Charles |
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
Excalibur wrote: |
As Dino says.....what I do with fungus on a lens bought is point the lens in direct sunlight (or UV source) and this usually kills it or at least send it dormant and if the lens is kept in a dry atmosphere preferably somewhere with moving air you should have no further problems. But of course if you can clean the lens it would be best esp if on the back element as this has more effect on the quality of your shot than if on the front lens. |
The fungus is apparently inside the lens so myself cleaning it is not an option. I might put it outside in the sun for a while. Thanks for the suggestion!
-Charles |
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
While now I'm earning my money with photography, I've been studying chemistry and working at University in the field of mass spectrometry. Which means that there's some background here.
To get visible fungus growth inside a lens, you need
1) spores
2) "food" (e. g. dirt or fat / soap [=lubricants])
3) the right conditions (temperature, humidity)
The main reason leading to fungus growth is "food". As long as your lenses are internally clean, there will be no fungus - even though spores may ber there, and temperature/moisture may be suitable. To turn it the other way round - if you have focus growth inside a lens, it ususally points to another problem: That there is dirt and/or fat/soap from the lubricants on a glass surface. Which means that the lens should be cleand anyway!
I do not hesitate to buy "fungus" lenses if they are rare, and I keep them side-by-side with other (clean!) lenses. I've never seen spreading fungus from a dirty lens to a clean one.
Stephan |
Thanks Stephan for this information. I can't clean the lens because the fungus is inside the lens. But your words are encouraging nonetheless. I keep all my lenses in a cooler with plenty of desiccant. Would you say that is a sufficiently safe or dry environment?
-Charles |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3751 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
charley5 wrote: |
I keep all my lenses in a cooler with plenty of desiccant. Would you say that is a sufficiently safe or dry environment?
-Charles |
I can't really answer that question - since I don't use coolers and/or desiccants. I suspect however that heating the lenses too much (well above 40°C) will may lead to some migration of lubricants, and therefore enhance the risk for fungus. I have seen also some dirt specs on some of my lenses transforming into fungus (mostly outside, sometiems inside the lens).
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
charley5 wrote: |
I keep all my lenses in a cooler with plenty of desiccant. Would you say that is a sufficiently safe or dry environment?
-Charles |
I can't really answer that question - since I don't use coolers and/or desiccants. I suspect however that heating the lenses too much (well above 40°C) will may lead to some migration of lubricants, and therefore enhance the risk for fungus. I have seen also some dirt specs on some of my lenses transforming into fungus (mostly outside, sometiems inside the lens).
S |
Yes, that is why keeping it in the hot Indian sun might be a bit counterproductive. |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
[quote="charley5"]
Excalibur wrote: |
The fungus is apparently inside the lens so myself cleaning it is not an option. I might put it outside in the sun for a while. Thanks for the suggestion!
-Charles |
Alternatively, you could leave the lens cap off when not in use (or use something like a vented clear plastic cup over it) and store in a room that receives natural light. Dispersed UV in natural light over long periods should replace the need to put in direct sunlight, all other things being equal of course. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10463 Location: California
Expire: 2021-06-22
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
charley5 wrote: |
stevemark wrote: |
charley5 wrote: |
I keep all my lenses in a cooler with plenty of desiccant. Would you say that is a sufficiently safe or dry environment?
-Charles |
I can't really answer that question - since I don't use coolers and/or desiccants. I suspect however that heating the lenses too much (well above 40°C) will may lead to some migration of lubricants, and therefore enhance the risk for fungus. I have seen also some dirt specs on some of my lenses transforming into fungus (mostly outside, sometiems inside the lens).
S |
Yes, that is why keeping it in the hot Indian sun might be a bit counterproductive. |
Desiccants can get too full of water to absorb any more -- silica gel for example needs to be renewed by gentle heating; too hot produces toxins... _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony A7Rii, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Lenses:
Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200
Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300
Macro-Takumar 1:4/50
Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm
Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element),
Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17
Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500
Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100
Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100
SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
Other lenses:
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
[quote="Sciolist"]
charley5 wrote: |
Excalibur wrote: |
The fungus is apparently inside the lens so myself cleaning it is not an option. I might put it outside in the sun for a while. Thanks for the suggestion!
-Charles |
Alternatively, you could leave the lens cap off when not in use (or use something like a vented clear plastic cup over it) and store in a room that receives natural light. Dispersed UV in natural light over long periods should replace the need to put in direct sunlight, all other things being equal of course. |
Interesting suggestion. |
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
charley5 wrote: |
stevemark wrote: |
charley5 wrote: |
I keep all my lenses in a cooler with plenty of desiccant. Would you say that is a sufficiently safe or dry environment?
-Charles |
I can't really answer that question - since I don't use coolers and/or desiccants. I suspect however that heating the lenses too much (well above 40°C) will may lead to some migration of lubricants, and therefore enhance the risk for fungus. I have seen also some dirt specs on some of my lenses transforming into fungus (mostly outside, sometiems inside the lens).
S |
Yes, that is why keeping it in the hot Indian sun might be a bit counterproductive. |
Desiccants can get too full of water to absorb any more -- silica gel for example needs to be renewed by gentle heating; too hot produces toxins... |
I have a humidex in the cooler that checks the level of humidity. It is always lower than what can be measured. So it is quite dry in that box. When the weather is dry I leave my lenses out in the open. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3751 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
charley5 wrote: |
Yes, that is why keeping it in the hot Indian sun might be a bit counterproductive. |
Certainly! I didn't know you live in India, since your profile says "Montreal"
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
UV-C does indeed kill fungus spores, it kills most living organisms. There is very little in sunlight, but you can buy cheap UV-C lights and exposing the lens to that (in a closed box, it will harm your eyes/skin) will kill the fungus. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013 Posts: 1534 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
UV-C does indeed kill fungus spores, it kills most living organisms. There is very little in sunlight, but you can buy cheap UV-C lights and exposing the lens to that (in a closed box, it will harm your eyes/skin) will kill the fungus. |
Will it kill plastics and rubber parts? |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
You don't need to expose the fungus for more than a few minutes, which isn't enough to damage plastics etc. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
And it can kill the corona virus in a matter of seconds _________________ pentaxian |
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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2913 Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:13 am Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
Fungi can actually grow on the coatings of some lenses (Oly lenses are notorious IMHO). But as described previously they need moisture to do that. They also need oxygen. If I am storing a lens away indefinitely I seal them in a plastic bag with a handful of dryzit paks. (I have access to an unlimited supply as I work in a pharmacy) If the lens is inexpensive and the infection not too pervasive it is often worthwhile to open and clean them. I just did that for a minor infection in a Kowa Prominar. You cannot tell it was ever infected. Expensive lenses with fungus? I avoid them. But might consider if they were cheap enough to risk cleaning or sending to a professional. Also note if the fungus has been there for a long enough period of time it can etch the glass. _________________ photos are moments frozen in time |
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:35 am Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
charley5 wrote: |
Yes, that is why keeping it in the hot Indian sun might be a bit counterproductive. |
Certainly! I didn't know you live in India, since your profile says "Montreal"
S |
My apologies. I moved to India in March, just before Covid struck. |
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:36 am Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
You don't need to expose the fungus for more than a few minutes, which isn't enough to damage plastics etc. |
I see. Thanks. |
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:37 am Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
jamaeolus wrote: |
Fungi can actually grow on the coatings of some lenses (Oly lenses are notorious IMHO). But as described previously they need moisture to do that. They also need oxygen. If I am storing a lens away indefinitely I seal them in a plastic bag with a handful of dryzit paks. (I have access to an unlimited supply as I work in a pharmacy) If the lens is inexpensive and the infection not too pervasive it is often worthwhile to open and clean them. I just did that for a minor infection in a Kowa Prominar. You cannot tell it was ever infected. Expensive lenses with fungus? I avoid them. But might consider if they were cheap enough to risk cleaning or sending to a professional. Also note if the fungus has been there for a long enough period of time it can etch the glass. |
So please forgive the obsessive nature of this question, but would you buy only one lens knowing that a second lens which was offered in the same sale had fungus? Some say it can spread to other equipment like a virus, but that may be an exaggeration. Would you buy another lens from the same dealer?
I apologize if this seems like a silly question.
-Charles |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5019 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
charley5 wrote: |
jamaeolus wrote: |
Fungi can actually grow on the coatings of some lenses (Oly lenses are notorious IMHO). But as described previously they need moisture to do that. They also need oxygen. If I am storing a lens away indefinitely I seal them in a plastic bag with a handful of dryzit paks. (I have access to an unlimited supply as I work in a pharmacy) If the lens is inexpensive and the infection not too pervasive it is often worthwhile to open and clean them. I just did that for a minor infection in a Kowa Prominar. You cannot tell it was ever infected. Expensive lenses with fungus? I avoid them. But might consider if they were cheap enough to risk cleaning or sending to a professional. Also note if the fungus has been there for a long enough period of time it can etch the glass. |
So please forgive the obsessive nature of this question, but would you buy only one lens knowing that a second lens which was offered in the same sale had fungus? Some say it can spread to other equipment like a virus, but that may be an exaggeration. Would you buy another lens from the same dealer?
I apologize if this seems like a silly question.
-Charles |
The point about buying a lens with fungus is you can buy it a lot cheaper, I wouldn't buy a lens completely covered with fungus but don't mind if a small amount if on the front element (or even a few small spots inside).
AAMOI all livings things on earth need water to survive and I always say when they open tombs in Egypt why isn't everything ruined by fungus, bacteria, wood worm etc etc _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I usually don't buy fungus lenses in winter. They can smell terribly inside house. I want discount from seller if he fails to mention it. Nevertheless there is little trick i read somewhere: put such lens in closed plastic bag together with coal. In month or two coal absorbs the smell. I usually add a tea bag . _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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charley5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020 Posts: 346 Location: India
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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charley5 wrote:
Excalibur wrote: |
charley5 wrote: |
jamaeolus wrote: |
Fungi can actually grow on the coatings of some lenses (Oly lenses are notorious IMHO). But as described previously they need moisture to do that. They also need oxygen. If I am storing a lens away indefinitely I seal them in a plastic bag with a handful of dryzit paks. (I have access to an unlimited supply as I work in a pharmacy) If the lens is inexpensive and the infection not too pervasive it is often worthwhile to open and clean them. I just did that for a minor infection in a Kowa Prominar. You cannot tell it was ever infected. Expensive lenses with fungus? I avoid them. But might consider if they were cheap enough to risk cleaning or sending to a professional. Also note if the fungus has been there for a long enough period of time it can etch the glass. |
So please forgive the obsessive nature of this question, but would you buy only one lens knowing that a second lens which was offered in the same sale had fungus? Some say it can spread to other equipment like a virus, but that may be an exaggeration. Would you buy another lens from the same dealer?
I apologize if this seems like a silly question.
-Charles |
The point about buying a lens with fungus is you can buy it a lot cheaper, I wouldn't buy a lens completely covered with fungus but don't mind if a small amount if on the front element (or even a few small spots inside).
AAMOI all livings things on earth need water to survive and I always say when they open tombs in Egypt why isn't everything ruined by fungus, bacteria, wood worm etc etc |
Because those tombs are dry as heck. I don't think any moisture can penetrate them. That is partly why the mummified remains are in such a high state of preservation. |
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