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RF or SLR soviet M39
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:12 pm    Post subject: RF or SLR soviet M39 Reply with quote

I have made a simple chart for beginners who have problems to know which lens should be used with a RF M39 adapter, and which one should be used with M42 + m42 to m39.

As it is for beginners, it does not includes very rares lenses, and it does not go into details about the sligh difference of rear working distance, as it usualy works on cheap M42 adapters.

Still, I guess it could be interesting for some people here.



PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What cameras you can use with J-12?


PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job! Like 1 small Like 1


PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
What cameras you can use with J-12?


Any 24x36 mirrorless camera. I heard some APS-C one can, but I don't know which ones, and they are exceptions.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep Like 1 .


PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there issues with not reaching infinity with m39 Zenit lenses using a m39 to m42 adapter ring combined with a normal m42 adapter?


PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blotafton wrote:
Isn't there issues with not reaching infinity with m39 Zenit lenses using a m39 to m42 adapter ring combined with a normal m42 adapter?


Not at all, the M39 to M42 does not add distance, it just converts the thread on your lens from 39x1 to 42x1.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like 1 Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: RF or SLR soviet M39 Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
I have made a simple chart for beginners who have problems to know which lens should be used with a RF M39 adapter, and which one should be used with M42 + m42 to m39.

As it is for beginners, it does not includes very rares lenses, and it does not go into details about the sligh difference of rear working distance, as it usualy works on cheap M42 adapters.

Still, I guess it could be interesting for some people here.



Thank you! Thank you! Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent resource.
Thank you Pierre
Tom
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1 Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Isn't there issues with not reaching infinity with m39 Zenit lenses using a m39 to m42 adapter ring combined with a normal m42 adapter?


Not at all, the M39 to M42 does not add distance, it just converts the thread on your lens from 39x1 to 42x1.


According user tb_a the register distance is shorter which is what I've experienced. I found this old thread:

http://forum.mflenses.com/re-soviet-m39-help-t73812.html


PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blotafton wrote:
BurstMox wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Isn't there issues with not reaching infinity with m39 Zenit lenses using a m39 to m42 adapter ring combined with a normal m42 adapter?


Not at all, the M39 to M42 does not add distance, it just converts the thread on your lens from 39x1 to 42x1.


According user tb_a the register distance is shorter which is what I've experienced. I found this old thread:

http://forum.mflenses.com/re-soviet-m39-help-t73812.html


Most of M42 adapters, especialy the cheap ones allow past infinity on M42, so it makes no problem to use M39 on them. I have used several
M42 adapters on Canon 5D and Sony A7, and never had problem. I always bought the cheapest one on the bay (and still use them after several years, so quality is not that bad).

But this image especialy does not go deeply into the thing, it's mainly to help beginers to understand which lens is RF, which one is SLR, and the basis to adapt them.

Here and on facebook groups, most of problems reported are new users of soviet lenses using the wrong adapter, mixing up SLR and RF.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Isn't there issues with not reaching infinity with m39 Zenit lenses using a m39 to m42 adapter ring combined with a normal m42 adapter?


Not at all, the M39 to M42 does not add distance, it just converts the thread on your lens from 39x1 to 42x1.


Exactly! M42 has a flange distance of 45.46mm while Zenit M39 (Z39) is slightly shorter 45.2 IIRC.
To get infinity focus reliably you need an adapter that is roughly 0.3mm shorter than M42.

I prefer to use an LTM adapter & an extension tube to mount zenit lenses, it's a more compact adapter, I can carry it with M39 lenses without needing to know in advance which type it is & the tubes can give close focus with LTM lenses...

I'm sure it's not coincidence that the longest of my set of M39 tubes is exactly the right length to convert LTM mount to Z39 Smile


PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:


Most of M42 adapters, especialy the cheap ones allow past infinity on M42, so it makes no problem to use M39 on them. I have used several
M42 adapters on Canon 5D and Sony A7, and never had problem. I always bought the cheapest one on the bay (and still use them after several years, so quality is not that bad).

But this image especialy does not go deeply into the thing, it's mainly to help beginers to understand which lens is RF, which one is SLR, and the basis to adapt them.

Here and on facebook groups, most of problems reported are new users of soviet lenses using the wrong adapter, mixing up SLR and RF.


As long as you don't need infinity it's fine to use the M42 adapter with Zenit SLR M39 lenses, some will even focus almost sharp if stopped down.

However, NONE of my M39 SLR Zenit lenses work REALLY SHARP at infinity if used like this. It's simply 0.26 mm too long. Only the combination of the M39 RF adapter plus 16.4 distance ring provides the correct distance.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job. I didn't know some of those lenses. The m39-m42 problem is a bit annoying. There is no way to get the correct distance for infinity on a Pentax DSLR (same FF-Distance as m42) the wider the lens the more it is affected.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
Good job. I didn't know some of those lenses. The m39-m42 problem is a bit annoying. There is no way to get the correct distance for infinity on a Pentax DSLR (same FF-Distance as m42) the wider the lens the more it is affected.


You could add a negative diopter in front of the lens, similar to the Carl Zeiss Distar (IIRC something like 'tylek? was Kodak's name) used in early bellows cameras to get a longer focal length. Admittedly its not easy to track something suitable down and it would probably ruin thhe lenses look...


PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DConvert wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Good job. I didn't know some of those lenses. The m39-m42 problem is a bit annoying. There is no way to get the correct distance for infinity on a Pentax DSLR (same FF-Distance as m42) the wider the lens the more it is affected.


You could add a negative diopter in front of the lens, similar to the Carl Zeiss Distar (IIRC something like 'tylek? was Kodak's name) used in early bellows cameras to get a longer focal length. Admittedly its not easy to track something suitable down and it would probably ruin thhe lenses look...


The zeiss has a pretty small diameter. Maybe I could find one in some broken lens I have lying around, but no telling how much it would compensate or maybe order some Harry Potter style eyeglasses and use one of those Wink


PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:

The zeiss has a pretty small diameter. Maybe I could find one in some broken lens I have lying around, but no telling how much it would compensate or maybe order some Harry Potter style eyeglasses and use one of those Wink


The Zeiss range apparently include some that are 51mm diameter but getting glasses made is probably a better option, even if they might not be any bigger. It's an approach I've been considering for some time but I'll try out the 80mm diameter -100mm lenses I have on order first. Smile Tracking has had then static at 'JIAXING, ZHEJIANG' for the last 10 days so I may have quite a wait.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DConvert wrote:
D1N0 wrote:

The zeiss has a pretty small diameter. Maybe I could find one in some broken lens I have lying around, but no telling how much it would compensate or maybe order some Harry Potter style eyeglasses and use one of those Wink


The Zeiss range apparently include some that are 51mm diameter but getting glasses made is probably a better option, even if they might not be any bigger. It's an approach I've been considering for some time but I'll try out the 80mm diameter -100mm lenses I have on order first. Smile Tracking has had then static at 'JIAXING, ZHEJIANG' for the last 10 days so I may have quite a wait.


I just tried holding a -1 eyeglass lens in front of my Takumar 58/2. Heavy correction. Infinity is reached at about 1 meter. On my Tair 11 133mm I can get noting in focus (cfd is 1.5 meters (a bit closer on my k-1) Getting the eyeglass centered right will be a pain even if perfectly round like harry potter glasses there is no guarantee the lens is ground symmetrically. I think you would need a correction of at most -0.5 or less. I don't know how the glasses correction number corresponds to millimetres though.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:


I just tried holding a -1 eyeglass lens in front of my Takumar 58/2. Heavy correction. Infinity is reached at about 1 meter. On my Tair 11 133mm I can get noting in focus (cfd is 1.5 meters (a bit closer on my k-1) Getting the eyeglass centered right will be a pain even if perfectly round like harry potter glasses there is no guarantee the lens is ground symmetrically. I think you would need a correction of at most -0.5 or less. I don't know how the glasses correction number corresponds to millimetres though.


I can at least answer the last part. Eyeglass lenses are sold in Diopters which are 1/(focal length in m). I'd expect -0.1 diopter to be workable, but I've not bothered doing the math.

There are numerous other suppliers of laboratory lenses that could be used as a supplier. I've previously used Greenweld http://www.greenweld.co.uk/acatalog/Shop_Lenses_202.html and UQG optics (both in the UK) for technical glasses but they do some lenses too https://www.uqgoptics.com/catalogue/lenses/ Stock options tend to be small diameters again.

In the states Edmunds optics & surplus shed are possibilities.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DConvert wrote:

I'm sure it's not coincidence that the longest of my set of M39 tubes is exactly the right length to convert LTM mount to Z39 Smile

I'm not sure exacty what kind of M39 tube set we're talking of (there are many), but the tube #3 of the original Soviet set (5mm, 8mm, 16.4mm and 26mm) was made specifically for that job indeed Smile


PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blotafton wrote:
Isn't there issues with not reaching infinity with m39 Zenit lenses using a m39 to m42 adapter ring combined with a normal m42 adapter?


There is a quarter of a millimetre difference, the M39 lens being a shorter flange focal distance. Testing an I50 with an m39 thread on my Sony A7 with a M42 ring and M42 adapter it focuses past infinity. Infinity being at the 5 metre mark. Not a problem unless you're scale focusing but it does lengthen the minimum focus from 65cm to 75cm.

but yes it will reach infinity


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philslizzy wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Isn't there issues with not reaching infinity with m39 Zenit lenses using a m39 to m42 adapter ring combined with a normal m42 adapter?


There is a quarter of a millimetre difference, the M39 lens being a shorter flange focal distance. Testing an I50 with an m39 thread on my Sony A7 with a M42 ring and M42 adapter it focuses past infinity. Infinity being at the 5 metre mark. Not a problem unless you're scale focusing but it does lengthen the minimum focus from 65cm to 75cm.

but yes it will reach infinity


In my case one MIR-1 did reach infinity. But another did not and my Jupiter 11 did not. So 1 of 3.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On any mirrorless you may be able to swap the brass inserts, I assume the O.D. is machined to the same spec/profile, then you can shim to your hearts content and have dedicated Z39 adapters. I'm kinda surprised they don't sell them....I haven't seen any.