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Revuenon 1.2/55 - Not easy to use.
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:13 am    Post subject: Revuenon 1.2/55 - Not easy to use. Reply with quote
My only f1.2 lens and it has taken me over two years to track one down at an affordable price.
It is the Revuenon 55mm f1.2 in PK mount - possibly made by Cosina (unsure of that)
Here is the lens:





I am having a devil of a time getting the focus correct with this lens (on K-10D)
It seems to give back focus issues - see image 1.
Otherwise it is quite well made and very positive in its functions.
There are only full f stops however all the way from f1.2-f16 - no lovely half stops like the wonderful Takumars.
And of course the bokeh wide open is interesting.
It is the focusing that is giving me the heebeejeebies.
Any advice would be most welcome.
Here are some of its better efforts
OH







PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Trippy, but beautiful!

Practice?


PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes. This lens is made by Cosina.

This is a lens which works wonderfully with Oriental style photos! My friend told me he like his Cosina 1.4/55. I think I should ask him to get the 1.2 too.


PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Congrats, this is a real gem! Considering the sharpness and contrast at f/1.2, it's really good. I don't see any clear glowing edge on the flowers and the CA is low! It's much better than my SMC Pentax 50/1.2 and some f/1.4 lenses at wide open.
I think the back focus is not a real problem. I found that people commonly said that they have back focus problem and it's mostly with fast lenses. Maybe it's just simply because making an accurate focus with that extremely thin DOF is not easy. Especially, the image you mentioned has two flowers in a very close position that you can shoot the wrong target easily. The best way is to use the live view or you should choose a target with reasonably large surface and distinguishable from other things around.


PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice shots OH. I've used the same combo for a while (well mine K10 was Samsung branded) and had similar experience.

I know lens is considered COSINA nevertheless i wonder how it is possible one company makes two totally different lenses like PORST Reflex 1.2/55 and this Revuenon 1.2/55mm.

Here's a funny thought that crossed my mind: COSINA worked on some projects with RICOH at the time.
Rikenon also sold 1.2/55mm PK that is Revuenon clone. RICOH made 1.4/50mm PK lens IMHO himself. What about F1.2?

One still can claim it is all made by COSINA. But if that is true, COSINA is simply a conglomerate name, whereas under it's name two separate companies made products.

urmelchen wrote:





PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Langstrum wrote:
Congrats, this is a real gem! Considering the sharpness and contrast at f/1.2, it's really good. I don't see any clear glowing edge on the flowers and the CA is low! It's much better than my SMC Pentax 50/1.2 and some f/1.4 lenses at wide open.
I think the back focus is not a real problem. I found that people commonly said that they have back focus problem and it's mostly with fast lenses. Maybe it's just simply because making an accurate focus with that extremely thin DOF is not easy. Especially, the image you mentioned has two flowers in a very close position that you can shoot the wrong target easily. The best way is to use the live view or you should choose a target with reasonably large surface and distinguishable from other things around.


Good answer. Thin DOF means hard to focus, but the images you (oldhand) have taken are nice.
Makes me want to buy such a lens, but I rarely see 1.2 lenses around here.
Would 1.4 be good enough for this type of shot?


PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks everyone for the feedback and kind words.
I cannot believe the similarities between the XR Rikeneon and the Revuenon - thank you Pancolart for posting.
Apart from the colour of the Ft markings they look to be the same lens.
OH


PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uddhava wrote:
Langstrum wrote:
Congrats, this is a real gem! Considering the sharpness and contrast at f/1.2, it's really good. I don't see any clear glowing edge on the flowers and the CA is low! It's much better than my SMC Pentax 50/1.2 and some f/1.4 lenses at wide open.
I think the back focus is not a real problem. I found that people commonly said that they have back focus problem and it's mostly with fast lenses. Maybe it's just simply because making an accurate focus with that extremely thin DOF is not easy. Especially, the image you mentioned has two flowers in a very close position that you can shoot the wrong target easily. The best way is to use the live view or you should choose a target with reasonably large surface and distinguishable from other things around.


Good answer. Thin DOF means hard to focus, but the images you (oldhand) have taken are nice.
Makes me want to buy such a lens, but I rarely see 1.2 lenses around here.
Would 1.4 be good enough for this type of shot?


Yes 1.2 lenses are hard to track down anywhere. I found this one in Germany after looking for a verrrry long time.
The OOF highlights that a 1.2 lens gives are much more exaggerated than those of a 1.4 or even an f2 lens.
But it does depend to some extent on the distance behind the subject that the OOF highlights occur.
Here are a few images - the first is from a Chinon 1.4/55 and the second from a Yashinon 1.4/50 and the third from a Yashinon 2/50.
Similar but not the same as a 1.2 lens.





PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
uddhava wrote:
Langstrum wrote:
Congrats, this is a real gem! Considering the sharpness and contrast at f/1.2, it's really good. I don't see any clear glowing edge on the flowers and the CA is low! It's much better than my SMC Pentax 50/1.2 and some f/1.4 lenses at wide open.
I think the back focus is not a real problem. I found that people commonly said that they have back focus problem and it's mostly with fast lenses. Maybe it's just simply because making an accurate focus with that extremely thin DOF is not easy. Especially, the image you mentioned has two flowers in a very close position that you can shoot the wrong target easily. The best way is to use the live view or you should choose a target with reasonably large surface and distinguishable from other things around.


Good answer. Thin DOF means hard to focus, but the images you (oldhand) have taken are nice.
Makes me want to buy such a lens, but I rarely see 1.2 lenses around here.
Would 1.4 be good enough for this type of shot?


Yes 1.2 lenses are hard to track down anywhere. I found this one in Germany after looking for a verrrry long time.
The OOF highlights that a 1.2 lens gives are much more exaggerated than those of a 1.4 or even an f2 lens.
But it does depend to some extent on the distance behind the subject that the OOF highlights occur.
Here are a few images - the first is from a Chinon 1.4/55 and the second from a Yashinon 1.4/50 and the third from a Yashinon 2/50.
Similar but not the same as a 1.2 lens.

Thanks for the answer and samples.


PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Beautiful images, OH!

Flowers make wonderful subjects for beautiful photos, however, they aren't so good as targets for focus tests. I usually use batteries Wink , they don't move much and they can be set up precisely. This kind of a test is really the only way I know of for determining once and for all if you are having a back focus problem. Frankly, though, your images would seem to indicate that you have everything under control. Great work - I really like the bokeh in your photos.

Here is the set up I used when practicing with the Nikkor 55mm f/1.2 on the full frame Sony A7:





PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:

I know lens is considered COSINA nevertheless i wonder how it is possible one company makes two totally different lenses like PORST Reflex 1.2/55 and this Revuenon 1.2/55mm.


What is so different in Porst? It has differently made mount and this is indeed quite unusual but apart of this it seems it's the same lens.


PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi, thats just wonderful crazy trippy bokeh, does it have that on higher aperture as well? My very beloved butterflies would definitely be too "fat" for 1.2 with 55mm Very Happy Thanks in advance.

I'm basically looking for a Domiron type-crazy short lens, but far more overlooked and cheaper or whatever.


PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is possible that the camera's focus sensor and mirrors are a bit miscalibrated. However, even if perfectly calibrated, the focus indicator on most DSLR cameras does not have enough accuracy to focus a F1.2 lens. A DSLR with liveview is ideal to shoot with fast lenses wide open, or better yet, a mirrorless camera, which allows liveview both with the LCD or the viewfinder.

Finally, remember that those F1.2 lenses were designed for 35mm film cameras when people were more interested in shooting with available light than in resolution, bokeh, "character", etc. The performance of those super-fast lenses wide open was so-so. Using today a legacy F1.2 lens on an APS-C camera makes even more evident the lack of sharpness of a F1.2 lens.


PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thought the Revuenon, Rikenon, Porst, Cosina/Cosinon, Chinon, Vivitar, Yashinon and Tomioka/Tominon were all the same lens with different mounts, coatings and decorations?

http://www.tomioka.de/tomioka_e_main.htm?action=news

My Auto Yashinon:


PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mike Deep wrote:
I thought the Revuenon, Rikenon, Porst, Cosina/Cosinon, Chinon, Vivitar, Yashinon and Tomioka/Tominon were all the same lens with different mounts, coatings and decorations?

Nope. The M42 lenses are Tomioka made, though Cosina-Tomioka co-branded lens also exists so may be Cosina participated in the manufacturing process in some way or another from the very beginning.

The later PK mount lenses are most chances Cosina made. We don't know if they share the same optical scheme. Most chances they do but we don't know this for sure.


PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
dimitrygo wrote:
Pancolart wrote:

I know lens is considered COSINA nevertheless i wonder how it is possible one company makes two totally different lenses like PORST Reflex 1.2/55 and this Revuenon 1.2/55mm.


What is so different in Porst? It has differently made mount and this is indeed quite unusual but apart of this it seems it's the same lens.

Everything is different Smile. I don't know the optical scheme though. To exclude misunderstanding: i am saying PORST-Reflex (COSINA) PK 1.2/55mm is totally different from Revuenon PK 1.2/55mm. I suspect Revuenon came out from the same plant that made XR Rikenons. Clearly very different from COSINA products of the same period.

Many differences discussed here: http://forum.mflenses.com/pentax-pk-bayonet-1-4-50mm-alternatives-chinon-cosina-ricoh-t60018.html
Regarding to above link one must consider RICOH 1.4/50mm PK is a smaller brother of REVUENON 1.2/55mm PK.


PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
dimitrygo wrote:
Pancolart wrote:

I know lens is considered COSINA nevertheless i wonder how it is possible one company makes two totally different lenses like PORST Reflex 1.2/55 and this Revuenon 1.2/55mm.


What is so different in Porst? It has differently made mount and this is indeed quite unusual but apart of this it seems it's the same lens.

Everything is different Smile. I don't know the optical scheme though. To exclude misunderstanding: i am saying PORST-Reflex (COSINA) PK 1.2/55mm is totally different from Revuenon PK 1.2/55mm. I suspect Revuenon came out from the same plant that made XR Rikenons. Clearly very different from COSINA products of the same period.

Many differences discussed here: http://forum.mflenses.com/pentax-pk-bayonet-1-4-50mm-alternatives-chinon-cosina-ricoh-t60018.html
Regarding to above link one must consider RICOH 1.4/50mm PK is a smaller brother of REVUENON 1.2/55mm PK.

Sorry, no idea what can be relevant in that thread to the current discussion.
From the pictures I can found in internet looks like there are 2 versions of Porst and 2 versions of Cosina:
Porst 1st version:



Porst 2nd version:




Cosina 1st version:




Cosina 2nd version:




Revuenon:




So it looks like the 2nd version of Porst is identical to the 1st version of Cosina and the Revuenon is identical to the 2nd version of Cosina. I would say these 2 groups are different generations of the same lens.
The 1st version of Porst is indeed quite different: it has different lens barrel and shorter MFD (0.5m vs. 0.6m in all other versions). But the mount is identical to the 2nd version and Cosina 1st version. If indeed there was a relationship between Cosina and Tomioka I would say this lens is a transition one from Tomioka version: some resemblance of the barrel and same MFD (0.5m).

Last edited by dimitrygo on Sun May 25, 2014 11:16 pm; edited 3 times in total


PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is beautiful post Dimitry, thank you. It would deserve separate thread. The serial numbers shown on Revuenon and COSINA 2nd version leaves little doubt of origin. Since i had Revuenon and PORST F1.2 lenses in the past i hold on to the idea of two separate manufacturers both working under the COSINA roof.


PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dimitrygo wrote:
Mike Deep wrote:
I thought the Revuenon, Rikenon, Porst, Cosina/Cosinon, Chinon, Vivitar, Yashinon and Tomioka/Tominon were all the same lens with different mounts, coatings and decorations?

Nope. The M42 lenses are Tomioka made, though Cosina-Tomioka co-branded lens also exists so may be Cosina participated in the manufacturing process in some way or another from the very beginning.

The later PK mount lenses are most chances Cosina made. We don't know if they share the same optical scheme. Most chances they do but we don't know this for sure.

Interesting, I did not know this.
Have any optical schemes ever been dug up?


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A word on differentiation of the models. Recently i have adapted Revuenon PK to 5DmkII. Infinity was reached without mirror being hit.
If i remember correctly that isn't possible with the PORST/COSINA PK variant. But let me know if i am wrong?


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cosina, Chinon and Tomioka were all located in the same place, they made glass and barrel parts for each other, therefore trying to work out who made what is close to impossible.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is a question regarding optical design difference particularly.

Does PK PORST/COSINA hit mirror at infinity on CANON 5DmkII? Revuenon does not.
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