Home
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Recommendation For Unusual Bokeh Lens
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:38 pm    Post subject: Recommendation For Unusual Bokeh Lens Reply with quote

I own numerous lenses that date back from my film days up to current Canon DSLR's, but none that have really unusual bokeh's. Most are smooth and what one would normally expect. They shoot fine, provide me with the expected, but I feel I'm ready for something a bit different. I've never really experimented with anything too unusual besides attaching old FD's to my 7D. I mostly shoot close-ups of objects from the size of flowers to items no larger than a microwave. I can't really say I do macro work, just close-up; most objects are no further that just a few feet away. I do occasional landscapes and architecture, but feel I'm covered as far as lenses on that end.

Recently I saw the results of a Meyer-Gorlitz Trioplan 100mm and although I liked the unusual bokeh, I feel the "bubbles" were a bit over done and distracting for my taste. Even so, I briefly looked into a copy, where I became a tad uninterested after seeing what sellers were fetching. From there I researched other "unusual" bokeh lenses and saw ones that swirled, streaked and what-have-you, but again felt most were overly busy and not exactly complimenting the main subject. Then others that seem to meet my needs, but again overpriced.

I finally settled on a Helios 44M 2/58 MC M42 that ran me just $50+ the adapter. From images that I've seen on Flickr, 500px, Google and elsewhere it seems to fit my needs. It'll be a few weeks before it arrives and I have a chance to get out to really give it a test ride. At the same time (yes, maybe I caught the bug) I'm researching additional lenses. Before I make another purchase I'd like to get some advice as far as other lenses new or old that I'd consider checking out. They don't have to be "macro", but shoot sharp close-up and provide something a bit different as far as bokeh. I'd like to keep the cost around $200 as this isn't a money making game for me, but it is my high.

Recommendations?

Tony


Last edited by Ynot on Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first suggestion is for you to log in and use the search function (not quick search) for bokeh. Your question comes up often and there are years worth of suggestions with samples and examples available there.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you ask about unusual bokeh, some of us will think about the more extreme examples, but then when you say it can be distracting, it is almost a contradiction to unusual bokeh.

One cheap example - I've bought three,all below $50 - is the Trioplan 2.9/50. It has very similar bokeh to the big Triolan, but with the limitations of the focal length. I have the Altix versions and find them very sharp while giving beautiful creamy bokeh ot crazy bubbles depending on how you use it.







PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard to know what kind of "unusual" you want. Unusual to you, maybe usual for some people here.
check here http://forum.mflenses.com/bokeh-only-t69142.html
Friends


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I managed to find a Trioplan 50mm for less than $30, but that is a rarity. The trioplan lenses are very expensive these days. If you are interested in that effect, may I suggest this alternative: http://sjp.id.au/adapted-lenses/meyer-optik-trioplan-lens/

Steve


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

secludedsea wrote:
I managed to find a Trioplan 50mm for less than $30, but that is a rarity. The trioplan lenses are very expensive these days. If you are interested in that effect, may I suggest this alternative: http://sjp.id.au/adapted-lenses/meyer-optik-trioplan-lens/
Steve


Yes, the Diaplan, but is the OP ready for adapting a projector lens? The tightwad that I am, I too searched for and finally found a 2/8/100 Diaplan. I haven't takenthe time yet to adapt it properly, but still got some shots from it.




PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, fair point. I have the 80mm version. Should probably try and find a 100mm version just for the bigger pupil size.

woodrim wrote:
secludedsea wrote:
I managed to find a Trioplan 50mm for less than $30, but that is a rarity. The trioplan lenses are very expensive these days. If you are interested in that effect, may I suggest this alternative: http://sjp.id.au/adapted-lenses/meyer-optik-trioplan-lens/
Steve


Yes, the Diaplan, but is the OP ready for adapting a projector lens? The tightwad that I am, I too searched for and finally found a 2/8/100 Diaplan. I haven't takenthe time yet to adapt it properly, but still got some shots from it.




PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the Zenitar ME1

https://www.google.hu/search?q=zenitar+me1&espv=2&biw=1745&bih=903&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjejNPTrazJAhUJAHMKHY1VDaQQ_AUIBigB

Quite expensive though.
And the more I look at it, it seems to be a bit distracting...never mind Wink


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too expensive for me Zenitar ME1. There are some alternatives...



PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. As far as my distracting comment, I meant not so distracting that the image becomes soap bubble mania where the mass amount of bubbles or dizzying swirls become the focus and the actual subject matter comes second. For me, I feel that bokeh, like frames around an image (yet front and back instead), should be complimentary and not as I said the main focus, again for my imagery. I'd like the main subject to be sharp and still be the center of attention, yet if one looks outside that their eyes will still be pleased yet led back to the main subject. Also for me, I've grown tired of silky smooth bokeh and want to change it up a bit. Maybe this is one of those "when I see it I'll know it" moments. Of course bubbles and other unusual bokehs are new to me, not to mention very old glass and mounts, so don't mind my inexperience here.

Woodrim, are all the shots you posted above from the Trioplan 2.9/50? More examples? Is there a particular copy that I should be looking for?

Iaza, I don't want to shoot bokeh for the sake of just shooting bokeh, just not my bag, but seems like a fun project.

secludedsea, I'm not sure I really want to get into modding a projector lens, too many variables for my me at the moment, but I may consider it later if this becomes an addiction and I need a more potent fix. Knowing me this could very easily become the case.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the Petzval lens?

http://microsites.lomography.com/petzval-58-bokeh-control-lens/#bokehtool

http://shop.lomography.com/en/lenses


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm almost sold into trying the Trioplan 2.9/50.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ynot wrote:
I'm almost sold into trying the Trioplan 2.9/50. Where would I find an adapter from Altix to EOS (7D) EF, EF-S mount?


I don't believe there is such an adapter, but the Altix mount can be easily modified for M42 I think. Don't quote me on that, as I don't have any Altix lenses. The Altix version would be the cheapest, but even then I've seen it around for three figure sums. The M42 mount version is by far the most expensive version, with the 100mm big brother even moreso.
I was lucky to have found one on a beaten up Praktica for less than $30, but the lens has gone up even in the last year. This is one reason why I went for the Pentacon AV 80mm !
But I understand not wanting to get into modification.
You'll find that "interesting bokeh" is often narrowed to what you'd call distracting bokeh; swirly, star shaped, square, bubbly. There's a ton of bokeh that is less smooth. Pick up just about any old MF lens for less than $50 with less than 8 blades and you'll likely see some not so smooth bokeh, but certainly smoother than the likes of square or swirly bokeh.
Here are some more photos from not very expensive lenses with variable bokeh: http://sjp.id.au/photography/lensbaby-velvet-56-lens/
Not a comprehensive list by any means !


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

secludedsea wrote:
Ynot wrote:
I'm almost sold into trying the Trioplan 2.9/50. Where would I find an adapter from Altix to EOS (7D) EF, EF-S mount?


I don't believe there is such an adapter, but the Altix mount can be easily modified for M42 I think. Don't quote me on that, as I don't have any Altix lenses. The Altix version would be the cheapest, but even then I've seen it around for three figure sums. The M42 mount version is by far the most expensive version, with the 100mm big brother even moreso.
I was lucky to have found one on a beaten up Praktica for less than $30, but the lens has gone up even in the last year. This is one reason why I went for the Pentacon AV 80mm !
But I understand not wanting to get into modification.
You'll find that "interesting bokeh" is often narrowed to what you'd call distracting bokeh; swirly, star shaped, square, bubbly. There's a ton of bokeh that is less smooth. Pick up just about any old MF lens for less than $50 with less than 8 blades and you'll likely see some not so smooth bokeh, but certainly smoother than the likes of square or swirly bokeh.
Here are some more photos from not very expensive lenses with variable bokeh: http://sjp.id.au/photography/lensbaby-velvet-56-lens/
Not a comprehensive list by any means !


Thanks, just after posting I found a thread that includes the mount issue:

aoleg wrote:
I found it very easy to attach an M39-EOS adapter to the back of this lens. With some effort it can be screwed on to the flaps of the lens mount. It sits very tightly. I was able to achieve precise infinity focusing (at the correct position) for this lens on the EOS body. No issues hitting the mirror on my 5DmkII, too.


I found that mount for under $6.

Although I'm not buying the following it does show the mount on the lens.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Meyer-Optik-Gorlitz-1Q-V-Trioplan-50mm-F2-9-50-2-9-Canon-EOS-EF-EF-S-5D-6D-7D-A7-/121823474252?hash=item1c5d3eb24c

Thanks for the link. A bit more research and I'll bite onto something to play around with.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ynot wrote:
I'm almost sold into trying the Trioplan 2.9/50. Where would I find an adapter from Altix to EOS (7D) EF, EF-S mount?

Woodrim, are all the shots you posted above from the Trioplan 2.9/50? More examples? Is there a particular copy that I should be looking for?


The second posting of two pictures is from Diaplan. You are welcome to visit my gallery from Trioplan lens: http://www.pbase.com/mdlempert/trio50

Adapting the Altix is very simple using an M42 adapter to your camera. All you have to do is file/grind away the threads in the M42 where the Altix mount bayonet tabs align. You will see in the first picture in my gallery, of the camera and lens, where I scratch marked the adapter to indicate the thread areas to grind away. Once that is done, the altix lens sits inside and the mating flanges can be glued. I used several small drops of CA glue. Actually, not much of the thread need to be removed; some people have force-screwed the lens into the threads.

I should also point out that the Tessar 2.8/50 is nearly identical. I have a gallery for that as well, except fewer pictures.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again Woodrim. Do you have any pics of the actual Tessar lens? If I go that route I want to make sure I pic up the right copy as I'm new to this. Thx


PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ynot wrote:
Thanks again Woodrim. Do you have any pics of the actual Tessar lens? If I go that route I want to make sure I pic up the right copy as I'm new to this. Thx


I believe there is only one Altix Tessar. Don't have a picture currently.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's correct. The Tessar's are cheaper to pick up than the Trioplans in Altix mount also.

woodrim wrote:
Ynot wrote:
Thanks again Woodrim. Do you have any pics of the actual Tessar lens? If I go that route I want to make sure I pic up the right copy as I'm new to this. Thx


I believe there is only one Altix Tessar. Don't have a picture currently.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steinheil Cassarit 2.8/50mm (also a Triplet design like the Trioplan)



PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
Steinheil Cassarit 2.8/50mm (also a Triplet design like the Trioplan)


And a nice bright outline to the bubble.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
kds315* wrote:
Steinheil Cassarit 2.8/50mm (also a Triplet design like the Trioplan)


And a nice bright outline to the bubble.


Yep, very nice this feature!


PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Culminar 135mm VL is the closest match I have found to the 100mm Trioplan bubbles

http://manuellfokus.no/steinheil-munchen-culminar-vl-135cm-f4-5/


PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end, there is no substitute for the big Trioplan, although in the right circumstances, I think the 2.9/50 comes close. However, while there is frequently much talk about the lenses, alternatives, and even acquiring bubbles with the big Trioplan, there is rarely talk about the conditions that are conducive for bubbles; and not just bubbles, but Trioplan-like bubbles.

These special Trioplan bubbles - the ones most coveted - are circular rings with the centers often clear or near clear and the outer ring highlighted brightly. Virtually all lenses will create bubbles from specular highlights, but typically filled with white or colors from the light source. One can use a Trioplan and still not get the elusive bubbles. I found this out (many times) when using the 50mm Trioplan, Primotar, and Primoplan - all capable of near big Trioplan-like bubbles.

The specular highlights must be present, but also the right combination of focus distance and distance behind the focus point. However, I've found that nothing is more important than the size and intensity of the light source. The below picture taught me that the highlights must be very small and intensely bright. In this example, the highlights behind the flowers were caused by bright sun reflecting off swamp covering in the water. The covering swamp scum caused very tiny reflections, but very bright. The lens used was Primoplan.



When I get the time and have the inclination, I will create a scene where I use glitter sprinkled sparingly behind a subject (of course in sunlight). Perhaps I will use a larger poster board of whatever color to contain the glitter flakes. If the board is placed well, it will be out of focus and not obvious in the picture. Will someone beat me to it? Never mind, I'll keep it my secret until I've done it.