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Re Auto Topcor 58 f/1.4 vs 58 1.8 : How much better
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re Auto Topcor 58 f/1.4 vs 58 1.8 : How much better Reply with quote
I have seen one or two comparison threads between the RE Auto Topcor 58 1.4 and RE Auto Topcor 58 1.8 and all I got from it was that the 1.4 may be a tad sharper stopped down and at 1.4 it has more chromatic abberrations than the 58 1.8 wide open.

Is there anything else someone can say who owns or has has owned both?
Any bokeh differences?
Is the 58 1.4 really sharper stopped down?


PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Klaus (kds315) has both and may comment.
There was some discussion here last year:

http://forum.mflenses.com/topcor-58mm-f-1-8-t79740,start,25.html

Tom


PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
They are both wonderful lenses, razor sharp wide open, colour is the same, Bokeh is a bit more smooth with thr 1.4 due to the larger PSF, the biggest difference to me is the size of the lens, the 1.4 is not a small lens, it's about the same size as my Rokkor 58/1.2 which is why I was on the hunt for a black RE 58/1.8 to replace my silver RE 58/1.8 in my Topcor kit (28/2.8, 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 85/1.Cool, I won't be selling the 58/1.4 because it's still better than most of my other 1.4 normals.

On eBay you are far more likely to find the 1.4 by a 5:1 margin, so that may be a factor.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's what I am looking at. The 58mm f/1.8 is a nice size including adapter and lens hood. I don't have a 58mm f/1.4 but in comparison it looks big. The other consideration is the 58mm f/1.8 can be found for half or sometimes a third of the price of the 58mm f/1.8. I don't care about the extra light gathering ability. However, I do care about performance such as sharpness, bokeh, colors, rendering, etc. So do they draw the same from f/2 onward?

Why is the 58 f/1.4 lengenday?


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the 58 1.8 is an exceptional lens. if you watch you can get them on the bay for 70 to 90 dollars. I think it might be just a bit sharper than its big brother, though I have never tried them side by side.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
Why is the 58 f/1.4 lengenday?
It was one of the first f/1.4 50-ish lenses. Plus it's enormous - the front ring is 62mm in diameter, compare that to all those 49mm ones. It's a unique feeling using it.

For sharpness on a FF camera go for the f/1.8 with s/n 116xxxxx. On crop it doesn't matter.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you are patient you can find a 58 f/1.8 for around $50. Anywhere from $40-70. I have watched for a long time and usually a good condition 58 1.4 doesn't go below $120. The ones that have sold for less than $120 were broken or in rough condition. Typically they sell closer to $150 or more these days.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
If you are patient you can find a 58 f/1.8 for around $50. Anywhere from $40-70. I have watched for a long time and usually a good condition 58 1.4 doesn't go below $120. The ones that have sold for less than $120 were broken or in rough condition. Typically they sell closer to $150 or more these days.


Last year I didn't buy-it-now for a set of 58mm/1.4, 35mm/2.8 and 135mm/3.5 for $169. I didn't know what I was thinking.
Nowadays 58mm/1.4 is so sought-after.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:

Last year I didn't buy-it-now for a set of 58mm/1.4, 35mm/2.8 and 135mm/3.5 for $169. I didn't know what I was thinking.
Nowadays 58mm/1.4 is so sought-after.


You should have bought that bundle. The 135mm f/3.5 is fairly common and cheap. The 58 also is fairly common but not cheap. The 35mm comes up for sale less frequently. More expensive than the 135 but usually cheaper than ther 58. At $169 you were looking at roughly $56/lens. That's a pretty good deal.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blazer0ne,
Thank you for the size comparison. Since you have both do you see any advantages to the 58 f/1.4 other than the light gathering? The problem for me is for the cost of a 58 f/1.4 I could get a Topcor 58 f/1.8 and a Minolta 58 f/1.4 and a Konica 57 f/1.4 and maybe even a Minolta 55 f/1.7 or a combination of other 50's.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Also, if this thread inspires anyone to look for some of these lenses on ebay. Be cautious with this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tokyo-Kogaku-RE-Auto-Topcor-5-8cm-f1-8-Lens-SLR-58mm-Topcon/293563096729?hash=item4459b95e99:g:bHUAAOSwS~teqTbg

It looks to be a black 58mm f/1.8 but it seems like someone has worked on it and pieced it together from a few lenses. The serial number is wrong for a black 58mm f/1.8. The bottom also is off. The color doesn't match the body and it has a groove like an earlier Topcor lens bottom. This groove would be missing from a black 58 f/1.8.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
Also, if this thread inspires anyone to look for some of these lenses on ebay. Be cautious with this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tokyo-Kogaku-RE-Auto-Topcor-5-8cm-f1-8-Lens-SLR-58mm-Topcon/293563096729?hash=item4459b95e99:g:bHUAAOSwS~teqTbg

It looks to be a black 58mm f/1.8 but it seems like someone has worked on it and pieced it together from a few lenses. The serial number is wrong for a black 58mm f/1.8. The bottom also is off. The color doesn't match the body and it has a groove like an earlier Topcor lens bottom. This groove would be missing from a black 58 f/1.8.


Topcon has some minor variation for sure. the serial is 9901XXXX so it might be real and untouched!(but i think you are right its too random for a minor variation and probably its made of several lenses) i have a 28/2.8 that is a black body with chrome nose and very early serial no. although its not unique.i seen some lens with this exact combo as well.



PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blazer0ne wrote:
From KEH about 5 minutes ago. They have a return policy. Both are UG.

Yea, this is why KEH is often a waste of time. Photos of pristine lenses are for "illustration purposes only". UG often means a fungusy bent lens with missing rubber parts. You can return the lens but still your time got wasted.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have gotten many excellent deals from KEH. My guess they process so much stuff that a lot is not really evaluated. Many times I have purchased BGN "as is" stuff that was actually in excellent shape. It is a risk but I have so far been very lucky.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raxar wrote:

Topcon has some minor variation for sure. the serial is 9901XXXX so it might be real and untouched!(but i think you are right its too random for a minor variation and probably its made of several lenses) i have a 28/2.8 that is a black body with chrome nose and very early serial no. although its not unique.i seen some lens with this exact combo as well.



I think there are too many differences for it to be a minor variation. It's not just the serial number but the fact the bottom plate is a different shade of black from the lens body and the fact that it has a groove that I have only seen on earlier topcor lenses. That chrome nose you are showing has black sides. The one on ebay is completely chrome. I would be cautious.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do they cover the return shipping?

I bought BGN from them and it was pretty good. Never tried UG.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="cbass"]
Raxar wrote:

Topcon has some minor variation for sure. the serial is 9901XXXX so it might be real and untouched!(but i think you are right its too random for a minor variation and probably its made of several lenses) i have a 28/2.8 that is a black body with chrome nose and very early serial no. although its not unique.i seen some lens with this exact combo as well.

I think there are too many differences for it to be a minor variation. It's not just the serial number but the fact the bottom plate is a different shade of black from the lens body and the fact that it has a groove that I have only seen on earlier topcor lenses. That chrome nose you are showing has black sides. The one on ebay is completely chrome. I would be cautious.

no it just the reflection:




PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raxar,
Interesting. Still the bottom of that lens seems to be the same color as the body. If it isn't, then I will shut up. Ignore everything I said about that other lens.

As for Keh bargain is not ugly. Bargain you usually end up with a lens that is operationally and optically fine. Ugly is more of a rollercoaster in what you get. Still $109 for a 58 f/1.4 in ugly shape isn't cheap.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
Blazer0ne,
Thank you for the size comparison. Since you have both do you see any advantages to the 58 f/1.4 other than the light gathering? The problem for me is for the cost of a 58 f/1.4 I could get a Topcor 58 f/1.8 and a Minolta 58 f/1.4 and a Konica 57 f/1.4 and maybe even a Minolta 55 f/1.7 or a combination of other 50's.


Having the 1.4 version would cover all the other lenses, sometimes less is more. I feel well comfortable having the 1.4 version as my only 50 with me. I'm sure the 1.8 is a good option, but it depends what you after. Besides the size ,it's my preferred one for the wo rendering on half body shots.


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Damn it. I love this forum but you guys cost me too much money when it comes to old lenses. If I find the right 58 f/1.4 at the right price I will have to buy it and try it unless some mericiful person tells be the 58 f/1.8 is just as good as the 58 f/1.4 stopped down.


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
Damn it. I love this forum but you guys cost me too much money when it comes to old lenses. If I find the right 58 f/1.4 at the right price I will have to buy it and try it unless some mericiful person tells be the 58 f/1.8 is just as good as the 58 f/1.4 stopped down.


The strength of the f1.8 is its beautiful rendering of bokeh wide open.
It also resolves very nicely. I don't have the 1.4 so can't show that.
Here are some from the 1.8.
Wide open - notice how softly it renders the prickly leaves.
Followed by an image and its 100% crop


#1


#2


#3


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
Raxar,
Interesting. Still the bottom of that lens seems to be the same color as the body. If it isn't, then I will shut up. Ignore everything I said about that other lens.

As for Keh bargain is not ugly. Bargain you usually end up with a lens that is operationally and optically fine. Ugly is more of a rollercoaster in what you get. Still $109 for a 58 f/1.4 in ugly shape isn't cheap.


I added to cart but at the checkout page, I backed off.
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