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wolan
Joined: 30 Jun 2015 Posts: 576 Location: Zurich
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: Rare Tomioka Cosinon 55mm f1.2 |
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wolan wrote:
Recently bought on ebay.de.
Breathtaking bokeh wide open and very very sharp stopped down.
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_________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/149089857@N03/ |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7547 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Not only bokeh, its flare are wonderful too. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
First and last are gorgeous to me. Thank you for sharing, i want to see more ! _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10463 Location: California
Expire: 2021-06-22
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:58 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Nice lens!
_________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony A7Rii, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Lenses:
Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200
Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300
Macro-Takumar 1:4/50
Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm
Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element),
Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17
Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500
Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100
Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100
SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
Other lenses:
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:24 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Look like typical double gauss bokeh to me, a bit busier than some. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6006 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
Very nicely done Wolan.
This lens also presents as a Revuenon and maybe even as a Porst.
I have the Revuenon in PK mount, and like it a lot.
If you do not mind me adding a few images - here are some made with the Revuenon
You are right Wolan - it is a lovely lens
Tom
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7547 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
The Revuenon in PK mount is not made by Tomioka but Cosina. The lens design should be different too. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
The Revuenon in PK mount is not made by Tomioka but Cosina. The lens design should be different too. |
+1
Cut off edge of rear element signify Tomioka optics 1.2. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7547 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
The cut off can't be used as the evidence: it is used for accommodate the aperture pin. If the mount is wider, there is no need to cut the rear element. The Canon 50/0.95 is similar to the Tomioka 55/1.2: the one for RF camera has a cut off in the rear element to accommodate the coupling part while the one for TV camera has not. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6006 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
Ah - so mine is made by Cosina but not made by Tomioka - and yes the rear element on mine is curved.
I don't quite understand why Cosina asked Tomioka to make a Cosinon when Cosina could make a similar spec lens for Revuenon.
Unless the Cosinon pre-dates my lens, and Cosina did not have the expertise to make the lens at the time.
Puzzled am I
Tom |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
I don't quite understand why Cosina asked Tomioka to make a Cosinon when Cosina could make a similar spec lens for Revuenon. |
You are not alone.
I think there are in absence of proven facts a lot of myths around, particularly if "Tomioka" is concerned. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
After some research on different web sites I found out that indeed Cosina made a 55mm/F1.2 lens much later than Tomioka (obviously until the late 1990's) with different specifications compared to the old style. They named it "Cosinon Auto MC" and this lens was also available as "Porst Color Reflex MC Auto" and maybe also in a Revuenon branded version as well, I don't know. However, this lens was available in PK mount only whereas the old Tomioka made version was obviously available in both versions M42 and PK in many different brandings.
That would at least make sense for me.
IMHO the easiest way to differentiate is the smallest aperture which is F16 for the old Tomioka (incl. the latest Yashica ML version) and F22 for the newer Cosina lens. Filter threads seems also to be different and lens construction as well.
In fact there are old Tomioka and newer Cosina versions available both with different brandings and markings; i.e. an old Cosinon/Tomioka and a newer Cosinon/Cosina lens.
Some folks say that the newer Cosina lens is the better one. I don't know but that would also make sense for me. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6006 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
After some research on different web sites I found out that indeed Cosina made a 55mm/F1.2 lens much later than Tomioka (obviously until the late 1990's) with different specifications compared to the old style. They named it "Cosinon Auto MC" and this lens was also available as "Porst Color Reflex MC Auto" and maybe also in a Revuenon branded version as well, I don't know. However, this lens was available in PK mount only whereas the old Tomioka made version was obviously available in both versions M42 and PK in many different brandings.
That would at least make sense for me.
IMHO the easiest way to differentiate is the smallest aperture which is F16 for the old Tomioka (incl. the latest Yashica ML version) and F22 for the newer Cosina lens. Filter threads seems also to be different and lens construction as well.
In fact there are old Tomioka and newer Cosina versions available both with different brandings and markings; i.e. an old Cosinon/Tomioka and a newer Cosinon/Cosina lens.
Some folks say that the newer Cosina lens is the better one. I don't know but that would also make sense for me. |
Thank you Thomas that is very helpful.
Well I always thought that my Revuenon was made by Cosina, but mine only has a minimum aperture of f16, so perhaps I am wrong about that.
My apologies to Wolan for sidetracking the thread
Tom |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:26 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
Well I always thought that my Revuenon was made by Cosina, but mine only has a minimum aperture of f16, so perhaps I am wrong about that. |
I've found these differences on various web-sites which I think is nice to know and IMHO still somehow on topic:
Tomioka made version:
Focal length: 55mm
Filter size: 58mm
Diaphragm blades: 9
Aperture range: f/1.2 to f/16
Optical formula: 7 elements in 6 groups
Closest focus: 60cm
Cosina made version:
Focal length: 55mm
Filter size: 55mm
Diaphragm blades: 8
Aperture range: f/1.2 to f/22
Optical formula: 6 elements in 4 groups
Closest focus: 40cm
Unfortunately there is no "official" source for that available but from the different lens pictures it seems to be plausible, at least for me. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6006 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
Oldhand wrote: |
Well I always thought that my Revuenon was made by Cosina, but mine only has a minimum aperture of f16, so perhaps I am wrong about that. |
I've found also this which I think is nice to know and IMHO still somehow on topic:
Tomioka made version:
Focal length: 55mm
Filter size: 58mm
Diaphragm blades: 9
Aperture range: f/1.2 to f/16
Optical formula: 7 elements in 6 groups
Closest focus: 60cm
Cosina made version:
Focal length: 55mm
Filter size: 55mm
Diaphragm blades: 8
Aperture range: f/1.2 to f/22
Optical formula: 6 elements in 4 groups
Closest focus: 40cm
Unfortunately there is no "official" source for that available but it seems to be plausible, at least for me. |
Well that just makes me even more puzzled.
My Revuenon has all the characteristics of the Tomioka made lens - except I am unsure of elements and groups.
Everything else is the same
Revuenon:
Focal length: 55mm
Filter size: 58mm
Diaphragm blades: 9
Aperture range: f/1.2 to f/16
Optical formula: 7 elements in 6 groups (unknown)
Closest focus: 60cm
Tom |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7547 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:25 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
My Tomioka Yashinon 1.2 has 55mm filter filter and mfd of just pass 0.5m. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:03 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
My Tomioka Yashinon 1.2 has 55mm filter filter and mfd of just pass 0.5m. |
OK, I give up.
It remains to be a miracle and obviously nobody really knows.
There is a lot of contradictory information around. Obviously there are even 3 different versions or designs. I don't know.
At least I tried to find out. Sorry for confusion. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7547 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:12 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
All m42 copies are 0.5m/55mm filter/F16 with Tomioka marked on the name ring. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6006 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
calvin83 wrote: |
My Tomioka Yashinon 1.2 has 55mm filter filter and mfd of just pass 0.5m. |
OK, I give up.
It remains to be a miracle and obviously nobody really knows.
There is a lot of contradictory information around. Obviously there are even 3 different versions or designs. I don't know.
At least I tried to find out. Sorry for confusion. |
Thank you Thomas for your input.
It is a quite a task to trace the ancestry of some Japanese lenses for sure.
One day perhaps we will know, but in the meantime we just enjoy using them.
Happy snaps
Tom |
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:45 am Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
Ah - so mine is made by Cosina but not made by Tomioka - and yes the rear element on mine is curved.
I don't quite understand why Cosina asked Tomioka to make a Cosinon when Cosina could make a similar spec lens for Revuenon.
Unless the Cosinon pre-dates my lens, and Cosina did not have the expertise to make the lens at the time.
Puzzled am I
Tom |
Why ? small numbers . |
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y
Joined: 11 Aug 2013 Posts: 304 Location: EU
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: |
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y wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
I've found these differences on various web-sites which I think is nice to know and IMHO still somehow on topic:
Tomioka made version:
Focal length: 55mm
Filter size: 58mm
Diaphragm blades: 9
Aperture range: f/1.2 to f/16
Optical formula: 7 elements in 6 groups
Closest focus: 60cm
Cosina made version:
Focal length: 55mm
Filter size: 55mm
Diaphragm blades: 8
Aperture range: f/1.2 to f/22
Optical formula: 6 elements in 4 groups
Closest focus: 40cm
Unfortunately there is no "official" source for that available but from the different lens pictures it seems to be plausible, at least for me. |
Don't trust random things on the internet. A modern double-gauss fifty featuring f/1.2 aperture can't really consist of 6 elements only. |
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blotafton
Joined: 08 Aug 2013 Posts: 1534 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: |
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blotafton wrote:
Kamlan 1.1/50. Not double gauss obviously, but a modern fifty with only five elements!
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
Early M42 versions are made by Tomioka have a 7/6 design 55mm filter thread and 8 aperture blades and .5m cfd. They are typically more expensive 600 tot 1000 than the later K-mount version of which there are two (in different brands)
Later K-mount made by Cosina:
- A 7/6 version 55mm with 58mm filter thread and 9 aperture blades and .6m CFD. Those are typically around 3 to 400 euro (e.g. Revuenon and Xr Rikenon)
- A 6/4 version 55mm with 55mm filterthread and 8 aperture blades and .6m CFD. Typically up to 200 euro (Porst is the most well known)
I would like to see a direct comparison of the Tomioka m42 version tot the K-mount 7/6 version. It is very likely the coatings are much more modern on the latter so it is a better lens (but in Vintage terms It may be worse because it may affect the bokeh making it less "special").
That Kamlan above is for APS-C and uses a different lens design. Not double gauss but more like a Sonnar or Ernostar portraiture design. _________________ pentaxian |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1250 Location: Kent, UK
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
blotafton wrote: |
Kamlan 1.1/50. Not double gauss obviously, but a modern fifty with only five elements!
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I'm confused; the lens diagram shows 6 glass elements, not 5? _________________ Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
Maybe they put in an ND filter _________________ pentaxian |
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