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Rare Find: Vivitar Series 1 450mm f/4.5 Catadioptric Lens
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:24 pm    Post subject: Rare Find: Vivitar Series 1 450mm f/4.5 Catadioptric Lens Reply with quote
So it's been a while since I've been here on this forum. I have a few hobbies (as I am sure many of you do) and I find I cycle through them each year focusing my time, energy, and bank account on only one at a time, haha! Probably for the best. I digress...



Last week, I lucked into an excellent buy, to pick up one of the last Vivitar Series 1 lenses (specifically primes) which I do not own. I bought it online and it was sold with the caveat of possible optical or cosmetic issues (one of those retailers with a grading system that doesn't specifically define any 1 issue). The price was right and they have a return policy so I snapped it up immediately. These lenses are not only rare, but when they do emerge for sale, in my experience, they go for some fairly high prices. For this sale, I picked up the lens, the rotating Series 1 T-mount in Nikon AI (perfect!, I'm a Nikon user), the hood, which was noticeably bent out of shape, original caps, branded case, and (4) 35.5mm Series 1 filters (Y, R, ND2, ND4...no UV but oh well I will keep an eye out for that one). I will be on the lookout for the matched 2x multiplier.

I love collecting these lenses because of what they are (beautifully crafted, high-performing* optics. *Obviously when taken into account with contemporary optics). Furthermore, we have lots of forum talk and legacy literature describing these things. What I do see, is a lot of results. How well do these lenses perform, now, on modern DSLRs? What do they render scenes like? Can I have some gratuitous shots of the lens to drool over also? Sadly however, many of these lenses have ended up in the hands of sales-minded photo shops where due to their rarity, they can only be had for premium prices, the likes of which collectors/appreciators like ourselves may be unwilling to pay given that we understand these lenses pragmatic limitations. I love Series 1 glass, but I won't be paying $1400 for a 30+ year old mirror lens that realistically will only be out on sunny days when I feel like experimenting (probably not being used on paid shoots...probably). Hopefully I can use this opportunity to answer both my own questions about this lens as well as any you have, AND learn more myself from those of you who have your own experiences with this lens.

A Brief Initial Impression



First off, let me say, WOW. I'm a nut for these old Series 1 lenses. I just think they represent some incredible craftsmanship and wholly embody form meeting function. This 450/4.5 is no exception. It's solid. Also, it's internal focus (IF)! That may not seem like much of a big deal until you've really worked with these larger lenses where either the camera, or the lens is mounted on the tripod and the other end is floating in and out as you find focus (I tend to mount the lens, leaving the camera body to float, but the weight/size is sometimes close with the solid cat lenses). The IF makes focusing this lens whilst on a tripod simply fantastic. The focusing action is buttery smooth and solid feeling. Cosmetically and mechanically, this lens I picked up is in excellent shape, barring the bent hood mentioned earlier. The hood of this lens is rubber. I had initially thought it might be metal with a rubber coating but it's just soft rubber attached to a hard plastic ring which mates with the end of the lens. Because of the material, I don't think it can be reshaped without heat, something I'd prefer not to risk as the hood doesn't interfere with the image.

While I did get a great deal, and I would buy it again in a heartbeat, this acquisition is not without caveats. Optics. Optically, the lens appears clean and clear at first. However, upon close inspection, specifically, the most trying test, shining a flashlight into the lens, I can see a hazing of one or more of the elements. If I understand correctly, this lens is a hybrid catadioptric in that it utilized mirrors and traditionally lens elements in combination. Presumably the haze is on one of those elements which could be accessible from the rear of the lens? I suppose it's a positive thing that it isn't so bad that it shows up with normal inspection, but I do imagine it is affecting image quality. I need to do more shooting at the moment.







QUESTION: I have experience opening lenses and repairing oily apertures and some various other minor fixes. I momentarily considered opening this lens to see if the haze was in a place that it could be cleaned (if it was cleanable at all) or if it is occurring between bonded elements, etc. From the images, or your own experience, does anyone think this is repairable or is the risk simply too great and possibly not worth it, if the lens can still perform well enough. I will need to get more sample images posted (and intend on doing so).

Gratuitous Lens Photos

Because we love the gear as much as we love what it does, right?





















I will be getting together some sample images from the lens later today and this week. So far, my initial experience has been pretty good. I am seeing a fair amount of contrast but do believe sharpness may be suffering either because this lens isn't as sharp as I hoped or the haze. I intend on shooting the other Vivitar catadioptric lenses along side it for comparison. I would like to also add in a modern lens, my Sigma 120-300/2.8 Sport lens with the 2x TC (I don't own the 1.4x unfortunately), to get an idea of the contrast and sharpness capabilities between these technologies. More to come! But I'd love to hear your experiences and what you think of the haze, with what we can see as of now. Thanks for reading!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1 WOW, congrats and thanks for such exciting "lens porn" Wink

P.S.: I would not open that up, cat lenses are very tricky about centering
and can only be done using a special collimator, so "hands off" if you ask me!!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Outstanding looks, really! It surely looks great in any collection.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
phwoaaar! Whoo Turtle


PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Never heard of the 450 version, nice one!!

Just picked up an S1 11/800 though, still need to test it properly, it's not the kind of lens for handheld shooting!

Vivitar S1 Solid Cat 800mm f/11 by René Maly, on Flickr


PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TrueLoveOne wrote:
Never heard of the 450 version, nice one!!

Just picked up an S1 11/800 though, still need to test it properly, it's not the kind of lens for handheld shooting!

Vivitar S1 Solid Cat 800mm f/11 by René Maly, on Flickr


That's a super cool lens! Now you have to get the 600/8. The 450mm f/4.5 is very rare indeed and quite unique in design utilizing mirrors and refractive optics. There was a post here on the forums from some years back which included some great info if you're interested:

http://forum.mflenses.com/vivitar-series-1-mirror-aspherical-450mm-f4-5-mirror-t68716.html

https://www.cameraquest.com/viv45045.htm


PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey, David, that's a nice find, especially nowadays. Smile [They were easier to find at one time (e.g., I had two of 'em once, back in "Ye Olde Film Days of Yore").]



Here's a 2-page magazine ad where Vivitar featured both its VS1 200/3.5 self-autofocusing lens and the VS1 450/4.5 mirror -



[I still have two copies of the 200/3.5 AF lens but no longer have either of the 450/4.5 mirrors (although I ~think~ I still have a couple copies of the 450/4.5's dedicated "Macro Focusing Matched Multiplier" 2X TC).]


PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's another cross-section diagram of the VS1 450/4.5 -



And here's a write-up in Modern Photo -





And here's an AP magazine lens test -





PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fwcetus wrote:
Hey, David, that's a nice find, especially nowadays. Smile [They were easier to find at one time (e.g., I had two of 'em once, back in "Ye Olde Film Days of Yore").]



Here's a 2-page magazine ad where Vivitar featured both its VS1 200/3.5 self-autofocusing lens and the VS1 450/4.5 mirror -



[I still have two copies of the 200/3.5 AF lens but no longer have either of the 450/4.5 mirrors (although I ~think~ I still have a couple copies of the 450/4.5's dedicated "Macro Focusing Matched Multiplier" 2X TC).]


Shocked You had TWO!! Wow. Awesome!! How'd you feel about their performance personally? Also, I'm totally interested in a 2x TC if you feel like getting rid of one! Thank you so much for posting all of this info!


PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
justtorchit wrote:
You had TWO!! Wow. Awesome!! How'd you feel about their performance personally?

My experiences with the VS1 450/4.5 (only on 35mm film bodies, not on DSLR's -- it has been quite a few years since I owned either copy) is that it is a noticeably sharper lens design than are either of the "solid cats", the VS1 600/8 and the VS1 800/11, and (IIRC) it had somewhat higher contrast, too. [BTW, I will also mention in turn that, IMHO, the 600/8 is sharper than is the 800/11.] [And, I should point out that, although Internet mentions often tend to lump these three lenses all together, the 450/4.5 is not a "solid cat" lens (although it is indeed a rugged lens in its own right).

My major disappointment was that I was hoping to be able to use this water-resistant mirror hand-held on the whale watch boats I worked on back then (I'm retired from my whale watch job nowadays), and it was just too difficult to focus under those conditions. [Yes, I do know that I was probably expecting too much.] For me, it wasn't just a motion blur problem, it was primarily a focusing problem. The focus knob was close to the mount end of the lens, so that the balance for hand-holding (and manual focusing) seemed a bit awkward to me (YMMV, of course). [This would not be a problem for a tripod-mounted 450/4.5 on land, however.] To further compound the problem, the DOF at 450/4.5 is razor thin (of course - Duh!).]

justtorchit wrote:
Also, I'm totally interested in a 2x TC if you feel like getting rid of one!

Well, it did take me a few days to locate both copies of the TC (the VS1 450/4.5 "2X Macro Matched Multiplier"), and I'll soon add another post below for info about them...

Last edited by fwcetus on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:56 am; edited 6 times in total


PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Whoo Turtle Congrats


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fwcetus wrote:
justtorchit wrote:
You had TWO!! Wow. Awesome!! How'd you feel about their performance personally?

My experiences with the VS1 450/4.5 (only on 35mm film bodies, not on DSLR's -- it has been quite a few years since I owned either copy) is that it is a noticeably sharper lens design than are either of the "solid cats", the VS1 600/8 and the VS1 800/11, and (IIRC) it had somewhat higher contrast, too. [BTW, I will also mention in turn that, IMHO, the 600/8 is sharper than is the 800/11.] [And, I should point out that, although Internet mentions often tend to lump these three lenses all together, the 450/4.5 is not a "solid cat" lens (although it is indeed a rugged lens in its own right).

My major disappointment was that I was hoping to be able to use this water-resistant mirror hand-held on the whale watch boats I worked on back then (I'm retired from my whale watch job nowadays), and it was just too difficult to focus under those conditions. [Yes, I do know that I was probably expecting too much.] For me, it wasn't just a motion blur problem, it was primarily a focusing problem. The focus knob was close to the mount end of the lens, so that the balance for hand-holding (and manual focusing) seemed a bit awkward to me (YMMV, of course). [This would not be a problem for a tripod-mounted 450/4.5 on land, however.] To further compound the problem, the DOF at 450/4.5 is razor thin (of course - Duh!).]

justtorchit wrote:
Also, I'm totally interested in a 2x TC if you feel like getting rid of one!

Well, it did take me a few days to locate both copies of the TC (the VS1 450/4.5 "2X Macro Matched Multiplier"), and I'll soon add another post below for info about them...


I've been having the same experience with this lens. I actually took this to a botanical garden glow event recently simply because I was interested in how the donut bokeh would look with so many lights. Unfortunately (and I knew this before choosing to take it), the gardens prohibited the use of tripods (for safety/convenience of other event attendees). So I knew I would be pushing it but I brought my miniature tripod (Manfrotto 709B, solid and extremely handy) thinking I might be able to make things work. Ultimately, that DoF is so shallow, focusing in low light was extremely difficult and hand-holding was a joke. Suffice it to say, things just didn't really pan out with the specific experience, haha. And overall, mirror lenses are just a challenge to use on anything but a bright day (and even then...). This lens is no exception.

I have been trying to take this out to get a feel for what it's capable of but the weather here has been anything but cooperative lately. And I have not been feeling especially entrepid lately (it's 14°F outside currently).


PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fwcetus wrote:

justtorchit wrote:
Also, I'm totally interested in a 2x TC if you feel like getting rid of one!

Well, it did take me a few days to locate both copies of the TC (the VS1 450/4.5 "2X Macro Matched Multiplier"), and I'll soon add another post below for info about them...

OK, here are a couple pages fro the manual about the "Macro Focusing Matched Multiplier" for the VS1 450/4.5 along with a few pix of one of the TC's on one of the 450/4.5's -

















If it reminds you of the Vivitar 2X macro-focusing TC and its helicoid, it does so for me, too. However, it is not the same, with the most obvious differences being the T-mount flanges and the internal optics.

[And, BTW, David, please check your PM inbox.]


PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fwcetus wrote:

If it reminds you of the Vivitar 2X macro-focusing TC and its helicoid, it does so for me, too. However, it is not the same, with the most obvious differences being the T-mount flanges and the internal optics.

[And, BTW, David, please check your PM inbox.]


Are you sure that the internal optic is different ?? (my guess is that the "dedicated" promise is just a marketing trick)


PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PBFACTS wrote:

fwcetus wrote:
If it reminds you of the Vivitar 2X macro-focusing TC and its helicoid, it does so for me, too. However, it is not the same, with the most obvious differences being the T-mount flanges and the internal optics.

Are you sure that the internal optic is different ?? (my guess is that the "dedicated" promise is just a marketing trick)

The optics are definitely different. Visually, the outer surface of the rear element of the Vivitar 2X Macro Focusing TC appears almost flat (it's actually slightly concave). In contrast, the outer surface of the rear element of the VS1 450/4.5 2X Macro Focusing Marched Multiplier is quite convex (almost bulbous).

Of course, the best proof is in the optical diagrams.

First, here is the 7-elements-in-5-groups diagram for the Vivitar 2X Macro Focusing TC -


Then, here is the 6-elements-in-4-groups diagram for the VS1 450/4.5 2X Macro Focusing Marched Multiplier -


This is not to say that I disagree with you over the fact that the "dedicated" promise may sometimes be just a marketing trick. [We've all seen examples of "engineering" that was actually created in marketing departments, right?]

Last edited by fwcetus on Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:23 pm; edited 4 times in total


PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Find: Vivitar Series 1 450mm f/4.5 Catadioptric Len Reply with quote
justtorchit wrote:
Gratuitous Lens Photos

Because we love the gear as much as we love what it does, right?

Indeed !!!

So, here's a couple of gratuitous shots of the Vivitar Series 1 600/8 -



And here's a couple more for the nearly identical Perkin Elmer Solid Cat 600/8 -


[And BTW, as far as I can tell, the only difference (besides the markings) between the VS1 and PE Solid Cats is in the lens coatings.]

Then, since the VS1 450/4.5 Macro Focusing Matched Multiplier has been part of this thread, here is one in "unmatched mode" ( Smile ) on a VS1 600/8 -




PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
1. i have a lens from the 80ties. interesting to know the order of quality in this thread here: worst 800/11, 600/8, 450/4.5. lense were tested in the lab.
and 450/4.5 was not that sharp. could dig out test.
2. had the 500/4 -15m (also 7m version was made)was not that contrasty. so must effective in contrasty situations only not backlit.
have also the this Vivitar macroconverter-C/Y-mount and a lot of T/T2 adapters. it will reduce aperture. lens-cap of sigma 500/4 had built-in f5.6 aperture(donutlike opening with door). by two. end up at f9.
with Contax AX we would have AF. i tested with Vivitar 600/8. thanks to catadioptric construction even f8 is working f5.6 overruled. i didnt own AX.
pity i already had to sell sigma 500/4 before Contax AX came out.

maybe best would be testing them again with contax RTS III vaccum back exclusively.could mount it on my KN-studiotechnik small body cam with Hasselblad-back, only dont know if one can switch copal-1 nikon-adapter by a contax one. i have nikon-m42-adapter plus c/y-adapter would match but infinity lost.
best mirror-lens. zeiss Mirotar 500/4. i have test. its like day and night compared to all others. there is a contarex-version named differently.
hadnt zeiss jena such a mirrorlens or do i confuse with a 1000/5.6 they made.
should attach cannot open a new message:
Ok here are some comparisons with other mirrors:
tamron 500/8 being the best. as i told i dont believe if not the vaccum-back-contax RTS III is used:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Tamron-SP-350mm-F5-6-Manual-Focus-Full-Frame-Mirror-Lens-Full-Kit-in-Exc-Cond-/112658223968
Part 3 more comparisons. Zeiss is the winner but Mirotar 500/4.5 not tested.
https://advancedphototech.wordpress.com/lenses/mirror-mirror-a-guide-to-choosing-and-using-mirror-lenses/

Last edited by europanorama on Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
europanorama wrote:
1. i have a lens from the 80ties. interesting to know the order of quality in this thread here: worst 800/11, 600/8, 450/4.5. lense were tested in the lab.
and 450/4.5 was not that sharp. could dig out test.
2. had the 500/4 (15m and 7m version)was not that contrasty. so must effective in contrasty situations only not backlit.
have also the is Vivitar macroconverter. will reduce aperture. lens-cap of sigma 500/4 had built-in f5.6 aperture.
with Contax AX we would have AF. i tested with Vivitar 600/8. thanks to catadioptric construction even f8 is working f5.6 overruled. i didnt own AX.
pity i already had the 500/4 sold when AX came out, had to sell.
maybe best would be testing them again with contax RTS III vaccum back exclusively.could mount it on my KN-studiotechnik small body cam with Hasselblad-back, only dont know if one can switch copal-1 nikon-adapter by a contax one. i have nikon-m42-adapter plus c/y-adapter would match but infinity lost.
best mirror-lens. zeiss Mirotar 500/4. i have test. itd like day and night compared to all others. there is a contarex-version named differently.
hadnt zeiss jena such a mirrorlens or do i confuse with a 1000/5.6 they made.
should attach cannot open a new message:
Ok here are some comparisons with other mirrors:
tamron 500/8 being the best. as i told i dont believe if not the vaccum-back-contax RTS III is used:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Tamron-SP-350mm-F5-6-Manual-Focus-Full-Frame-Mirror-Lens-Full-Kit-in-Exc-Cond-/112658223968
Part 3 more comparisons. Zeiss is the winner but not the nonaffordable f 4.5
https://advancedphototech.wordpress.com/lenses/mirror-mirror-a-guide-to-choosing-and-using-mirror-lenses/


Thanks for this, quite interesting as I'm currently looking into mirror lenses ... Wink


PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
why did you sell then the best one the Mirotar 500/4.5?


PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Someone recently asked me for some samples from this lens and I do realize there really aren't a lot of sample images out there. Well, it's gorgeous outside and after work I decided to just relax on the back patio and snap some photos of whatever was milling about. These are straight out of Adobe Camera Raw with a couple minor exposure adjustments and using Adobe's Landscape color profile. No sharpening or other edits were added yet. All shots made on the Nikon Z 7.

Birds at the feeder


CROP


Victor playing in the rocks


CROP


Birdling preening


CROP


Mama bunny (who recently had some babies in the yard)


CROP


Cardinal


CROP


Some reflections on the results:
These are the better shots. There were some instances where, even though the lens was sitting on a tripod, I was racking focus ever so carefully, zoomed in in the EVF, and I could not, for the life of me, achieve the same sharpness as other cases. This didn't seem to follow any pattern (only at certain distances, only in certain lighting, etc). I can't explain it. It's like the lens is only sharp when it wants to be. And even then, I'm not nearly as impressed as I am using the Tamron 350/5.6. Contrast, similarly, is a bit all over. I'm sure this is somewhat dependent on how light is entering the lens. With quite a bit of massaging, I can turn the above into these sorts of images (after editing in Adobe Camera Raw, not necessarily all the exact same takes):

















To wrap up this little evening experimenting, while this lens is very intriguing and rare, I can't really say I go out of my way to use it. I don't find a particularly compelling rendering or capability that I cannot get in other equipment. In fact, the Nikon 300/4 PF has made all other short/small telephotos obsolete for me. That lens is incredible and small to boot. Add a 1.4x and less than a stop slower than this lens but with AF, less weight, though a physically longer package. It's quite possible the light haze in my copy somewhat affects contrast. And as with all lenses, individual samples are in and of themselves unique.

One final question I have, is that I noticed by accident really, that in some instances, I could achieve better sharpness by putting my hand in front of specific portions of the lens. Obviously I knocked down the amount of light entering the lens and had to compensate, but I tried some shorts without my hand and with my hand in different places and discovered sharpness (perceived at least) would improve. Is this somehow akin to 'stopping down'? Is there something else at play here?


PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your photos and summary are appreciated. Thank you, David.

Like 1


PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
justtorchit wrote:
Someone recently asked me for some samples from this lens and I do realize there really aren't a lot of sample images out there. Well, it's gorgeous outside and after work I decided to just relax on the back patio and snap some photos of whatever was milling about. These are straight out of Adobe Camera Raw with a couple minor exposure adjustments and using Adobe's Landscape color profile. No sharpening or other edits were added yet. All shots made on the Nikon Z 7.

Some reflections on the results:
These are the better shots. There were some instances where, even though the lens was sitting on a tripod, I was racking focus ever so carefully, zoomed in in the EVF, and I could not, for the life of me, achieve the same sharpness as other cases. This didn't seem to follow any pattern (only at certain distances, only in certain lighting, etc). I can't explain it. It's like the lens is only sharp when it wants to be. And even then, I'm not nearly as impressed as I am using the Tamron 350/5.6. Contrast, similarly, is a bit all over. I'm sure this is somewhat dependent on how light is entering the lens. With quite a bit of massaging, I can turn the above into these sorts of images (after editing in Adobe Camera Raw, not necessarily all the exact same takes):

To wrap up this little evening experimenting, while this lens is very intriguing and rare, I can't really say I go out of my way to use it. I don't find a particularly compelling rendering or capability that I cannot get in other equipment. In fact, the Nikon 300/4 PF has made all other short/small telephotos obsolete for me. That lens is incredible and small to boot. Add a 1.4x and less than a stop slower than this lens but with AF, less weight, though a physically longer package. It's quite possible the light haze in my copy somewhat affects contrast. And as with all lenses, individual samples are in and of themselves unique.

One final question I have, is that I noticed by accident really, that in some instances, I could achieve better sharpness by putting my hand in front of specific portions of the lens. Obviously I knocked down the amount of light entering the lens and had to compensate, but I tried some shorts without my hand and with my hand in different places and discovered sharpness (perceived at least) would improve. Is this somehow akin to 'stopping down'? Is there something else at play here?


Thanks very much for sharing the photos and your experience. Sorry I had to remove the photos as someone blamed me not doing so when I just joined the forum a few years ago.

Do you happen to have the dedicated 2X to try them out on your Z7? I guess manual focus could be very tricky.

I only spotted this lens twice in the past three years, one sold for above $900 and another one, initially having BIN for $700+. I decided to bid and lost in the end at $900+. Now I only have the S1 800mm (would take some years to spot this 450mm and 600mm).


PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:


Do you happen to have the dedicated 2X to try them out on your Z7? I guess manual focus could be very tricky.

I only spotted this lens twice in the past three years, one sold for above $900 and another one, initially having BIN for $700+. I decided to bid and lost in the end at $900+. Now I only have the S1 800mm (would take some years to spot this 450mm and 600mm).


I do have the 2x! Honestly, given how much trouble I had nailing focus with the lens alone, I haven't had a huge inclination to double the trouble, so-to-speak. I should try it for the sake of science! I will post something here when I've got a few to share.


PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have read about the vivitar 450, had the 600. both not that sharp. i was told one must use mirror-lock. i never understood the latter for long lenses on tripod.

Had the 500/4-sigma- longer closefocus-version 15m. i have leaflet showing both data. Under difficult light not that brilliant. but i made superglossy prints of animal-shots. Wow!


if one needs supersharp 500mm mirror the only solution is Zeiss Mirotar 500/4.5. have test comparison-report from 80ties. Not affordable lens. there are a lot of reports about multiple mirror-lenses.
Pity i had to sell the sigma since that was before contax AX. the only almost every lens can AF-SRL. i tested 600/8 at night in a shop and was surprised that AF worked despite saying AX-AF only goes til f 5.6. It catadioptic construction which enables AF i have read.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:17 am    Post subject: focussing difficult-solution Reply with quote
fwcetus wrote:
justtorchit wrote:
You had TWO!! Wow. Awesome!! How'd you feel about their performance personally?

My experiences with the VS1 450/4.5 (only on 35mm film bodies, not on DSLR's -- it has been quite a few years since I owned either copy) is that it is a noticeably sharper lens design than are either of the "solid cats", the VS1 600/8 and the VS1 800/11, and (IIRC) it had somewhat higher contrast, too. [BTW, I will also mention in turn that, IMHO, the 600/8 is sharper than is the 800/11.] [And, I should point out that, although Internet mentions often tend to lump these three lenses all together, the 450/4.5 is not a "solid cat" lens (although it is indeed a rugged lens in its own right).

My major disappointment was that I was hoping to be able to use this water-resistant mirror hand-held on the whale watch boats I worked on back then (I'm retired from my whale watch job nowadays), and it was just too difficult to focus under those conditions. [Yes, I do know that I was probably expecting too much.] For me, it wasn't just a motion blur problem, it was primarily a focusing problem. The focus knob was close to the mount end of the lens, so that the balance for hand-holding (and manual focusing) seemed a bit awkward to me (YMMV, of course). [This would not be a problem for a tripod-mounted 450/4.5 on land, however.] To further compound the problem, the DOF at 450/4.5 is razor thin (of course - Duh!).]

justtorchit wrote:
Also, I'm totally interested in a 2x TC if you feel like getting rid of one!

Well, it did take me a few days to locate both copies of the TC (the VS1 450/4.5 "2X Macro Matched Multiplier"), and I'll soon add another post below for info about them...


from my sigma 500/4-experience i can tell: repairman overhauled the helicoid. 2. it had a handle. could be easily implemented.
one should use the 450/4.5 with AF easily possible with digital adapters. new techart presented on dpreview.
have tested briefly at evening at shop 600/8 Cat on Contax AX was surprised AF worked despite f5.6 limit. cat-design makes it possible l learned online. slow lens and AF on digital may be a big problem but can be solved depending camera. e.g. i couldnt focus my slow novoflex 600/8 when cam was vertical. yes i have read about that in a review about chipped adapters.
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