Pentax K10D or K100D?

Borges · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Moers, Germany

I'm a lucky man. Always but today more than normal. Not only I got a Rollei Sonnar HFT 2,8/85 made in west-germany with M42 mount that was a hidden gift of a zenit auction. The other reason is that my family made the decision that I should buy me a new camera Very Happy

I'm thinking about a pentax:
- same working distance as M42
- Image stabilizer in camera
- focus confirmation with any lens

Price for K100D is around 500 EUR here, for K10D 900 EUR.

I've read both manuals so I'm aware of the different specs. But money is hard to earn so I'm not sure what to do. I've heard about a light metering issue using manual lens with the K10D, anyone knows something about that? Really an issue? Is it true that the K10D produces more noise than the smaller camera?

Michael, confused

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

How about other lenses thank Pentax and M42 ? Is Nikon adapter available ? How about Contax perhaps Leica lenses ?

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Michael, I don't know if I remember correctly, but I seem to remember that you already have a 350D, am I correct?

If you do, I don't think you'll be really happy with the comparison with the K100D.
Look here, the K100D is an image-quality inferior camera than what you already have:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk100d/page19.asp

Also the same review states that the shake reduction in the K100D is not that decisive with regards to saving shots as one would hope:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk100d/page12.asp

The reviews of DPReview.com are accurate and reliable. They don't deal with manual lenses, but they are probably the most accurate reviews available.

I would really give a second thought about the K100D at 500 Euros.
Al least, read the full review.

And don't forget that there is the option of the 400D which at a street price of about 600-650 Euros offers the same 10,1 Megapixels as the K10D. Ok, it does not have the antishake and the focus confirmation, but costs 350 Euros less than the K10D, it can mount more manual lenses, and with regards to pure image quality it is, in my opinion, very hard to beat.

LucisPictor · Expire: 2013-12-03

Hi, Michael!

First of all congratulations to your great new lens!
And congratulations to your family!

If spending � 900,- doesn't hurt you much, I would go for the K10D.
I really can't believe that there is light meter issue with that cam. Quite a few manual lens fans use this cam very successfully!

Its stabiliser is priceless and it is a rather professional cam compared to the 3digit EOS (350D, 400D) or the K100D, due to its construction.

If I had the money, I would buy one without hesitation. And as soon as I get enough money to spend (there is a difference between having money and having money to spend on your hobby, right?) I will go for one - unless there is a better model until then.

But, of course, this is only my very personal opinion. Nobody can make this decision for you.

Carsten

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Rob Leslie · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1103 Location: UK Swindon

First of all K100D is excellent image-quality. All tests you see of the camera only ever show JPEG from the camera, usually at default settings. The Pentax is set up to please the average user and it does a very good job of that. However shoot in RAW and it is a very different camera. As an ex Canon D300. Minolta 5D and Sony Alpha owner I can say without doubt the Pentax is far better image quality. You will also find on the Pentax Forum, members showing side by side shots from the K100D which better such cameras as the Nikon D200.
The question of image quality is very dear to my heart as I sell a lot of 20 x 16 inch prints and exhibit them. The Pentax does a great job. image quality is also very subjective, which is why I would not buy the K10D IMO the Soy 10 million sensor is far too noisy and a picture taken at 400asa and above needs so much luminance smoothing and colour noise reduction fine detail and real sharpness have gone. Of all the 10 million pixel DSLR I have tried (Nikon D200, D80, Sony Alpha) The Pentax does seem to be the best but the noise is still there. If you are going to shoot at 200asa most of the time then no problem. Where the Pentax K10 takes some beating is build quality, feel and usability. It is the best DSLR I have felt in my hands. Build quality is full weather sealing and everything just feels so right. Even the shutter is quiter than any other DSLR I have tried or heard. It is a real quality camera, just beating the the Nikon D200 but not quite a EOS 1.
My final advice would be only use tests/reviews to check out features. I have yet to read one that gives the proper low down of a camera. Have you ever read a bad report about the Sony Alpha? A camera that would drive you crazy and fall apart in your hands.
Go to your dealers armed with your own memory cards and take lots of shoots to examine at home on your computer. Hold the camera, feel it, change a lens. How does it feel is it good or does it feel like something you could have bought from the local dime store. There is nothing more like the feel of cheap plastic, a camera that creaks and a viewfinder you have a problem to focus with when you use your camera most days.
Please ignore all if you have no intention of shooting RAW and only want to do snaps a couple of time a month.

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Jigt · Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 412 Location: Belgium

I have the Pentax ISt Ds, has a bright and large viewfinder (I compared with a 350 d).
The Fosussing aid works with all lenses and it has spotmetering.
You can find a Ist Ds for less than 400 second hand.

Guido

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

Borges · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Moers, Germany

Thanks very much for your comments.

"Da steh ich nun, ich armer Tor, und bin so klug als wie zuvor."
"And here I am, for all my lore, The wretched fool I was before"

I looked through the viewfinder of both cameras this morning - the pentaprism one of the k10d is a killer in comparison to the k100d. Better not mentioning the small dark hole of our 350D. My imagination: a bright viewfinder and a fast manual lens together with image stabilization - that must be a dream. But in reality? I'm shooting raw and mostly portrait work (although I'm mostly posting other stuff here). I'm not sure if 6MP is enough, on the other side I see rob's pictures and their quality.

And now Yvonne came from university and said a few minutes ago: He, Orio is right, stay with canon, but buy a 30D. Evil or Very Mad

I think she want's the camera for herself Very Happy

But I think this makes no sense, the difference between 350d and 30d is too small. And 5D is out of reach...

Everybody here has good arguments. I fear I have to decide for myself. Very Happy

Michael

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

Canon has the most flexible mount in that there's not much you can't hang on the front via some sort of adapter or gaffer tape at a push.... Laughing

That said, every camera has it's compromises in order to meet it's price point, even the 5D...

Since you know what you shoot and want in a camera body, you have to look at each marque and model and find the one that best fits your requirements, bank balance, existing lens roster and whose compromises you can live with.

Rob Leslie · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1103 Location: UK Swindon

The big difference between the Canon D30 and D400 is build quality. The D20/30 isn�t weather sealed etc but it does feel and operate like a quality camera. It�s been a couple of years since I had a D20 in my hands but I wasn�t too impressed with the viewfinder, everything else yes. I wouldn�t have paid the money or one however. I haven�t bothered to look at the D30 but if the finder has been improved it could be a better buy for you. To be fair to Canon it can�t be compared to the D350 or D400. Certainly worth a look and has to be the price for price competitor to the K10

On your point about 6 million pixels being enough. Having owned the 10 million pixel Sony Alpha and trying the Nikon 10 million cameras (Same Sony sensor) I have no doubt that there is less real detail with 10 million against 6 million. This can easily be seen in Shadow detail where noise obliterates detail. This might not be a big thing with portraits. With wildlife photography were sharpness is really required for feather or fur detail 10 million pixels can�t sharpened like 6 million, you are just sharpening noise and not fine detail.

Great respect to you as a Canon owner for "Not mentioning the small dark hole of our 350D"

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Rob Leslie · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1103 Location: UK Swindon

Orio is right I think I read something about a new 40D being released soon. On the question of build quality, I could mention a few things but just one. The 400D doesn't fit my hands. I don't believe I have huge hands but I just can't get a grip on the 400D and use the controls. Thats it for me I don't need to mention anything else, I couldn't consider the camera on any other level. I picked it up and put it down

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

Orio,
I think Rob was coming from a purely ergonomic viewpoint about the
400D. I am somewhat the same way, if it doesn't feel good in my hands
whether it's a particular model/brand of Italian foil or a digital camera, I'm not much interested. And granted, I am probably missing out on some things worthwhile.

I've got to say, Nikons certainly have the ergonomic thing down in
spades. Too bad about the register distance...

Bill

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Rob Leslie · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1103 Location: UK Swindon

I don�t have and have never believed in brand loyally. It is a silly concept. Nikon, Canon and Pentax have all made good cameras, they have also made some bad ones. They all have many good features and again they have bad ones. Nikon have always made super handling cameras and the D50, D70 models are in some ways the best value DSLR cameras on the market if you are only ever going to use Nikons AF lenses. I hated my Canon 300 although it took marvellous image I had it for two years and I was never a pleasure to use. It was (Fact) a ?1000 DSLR housed in the cheapest ?99 SLR body Canon had. I kept the camera two years only because of the image quality and price. I would be first to admit the 400 is not the 300 and improvements have been made but after two years experience using the 300 I only had to hold the 400 to know I wasn�t for me. I know this upsets Canon lovers but sorry that is their problem. Pentax, Nikon, Canon are only the tools we use, none of them are perfect and it is silly to cry that they are. The only important thing is the image you produce and enjoying the process and that includes holding the camera and looking through the viewfinder. If �Borges� likes the Pentax K100 or K10 and he tries out the shop model before buying I�m sure he will have made the right choice. Equally if he thinks his 350 and the 400 have better features and he likes the handling so be it, that will still be the right choice for him. There may be some disadvantage to running two different camera systems but there are also many advantages to it. Again it is down to what the end user wants
Finally I would add IMO the Canon 10 million crop sensor is probably about the best DSLR sensor available but there isn�t enough in it for me to be unhappy with the feel and pleasure of use from my camera.

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Rob Leslie · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1103 Location: UK Swindon

I am guilty of the common misuse of the phrase �Build quality� I do not wish to imply the camera will fall apart or be unreliable in any way. The phase is often used to describe the design, handling, feel and looks of the materials used. For example in my broad misuse of the phrase the poor viewfinder would be part of that �Build quality.� It was or should have been designed for the camera and should perform in the best way possible. If in the opinion of the user it doesn�t then it is broadly speaking part of the �Build quality� If the smooth plastic finish is not to the buyers taste then again that is build of the camera. I�m sure it won�t fall apart and it could even be the best shock proof material but if the buyer thinks it feels cheap then sorry that is how the camera is built. I use the very general descriptive phrase �Build quality� to describe design, function and the personal opinion of the buyer to the feel of the product. As such I see and more to the point I feel when I pick the camera little change from the D300. In fact on a very personal level (Maybe I do have big hands) it is worse because I can�t comfortable hold and handle the camera. As I said I have no brand loyalty or anything against any individual brand. I have and still use my Canon A80 PS and think for the money it was one of the best PS made. However I wouldn�t even bother to look at a Canon G7.
Right just finished a bit of work and now out to enjoy taking some pictures back at 5-00ish.

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Borges · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Moers, Germany

Thanks in advance to you all. I've read the hole night tests and specs. I argued with friends over the hole world via Internet.

K10D is out - I've seen pictures with the noise this camera produces with ISO800 and above. What's the use of image stabilization if I loose 2 stops to avoid this noise.

K100D is out - despite the impressive images Rob produces with this cam. I discussed with pentax users the use of M42 Adapter. They told me that my dream of an ideal camera for my russians wouldn't become true because of adapter problems.

Yvonne together with Orio had the right arguments this morning. I have four adapters M42-EOS, 2 with AF-Chip. If I go out I can scew this adapters on the lens and change same as easy as canon lens. We have much canon accessoires. So I buried my dream of Pentax as ideal M42-Camera.
A few hours ago I was at our local electronics store. And I've done something I shouldn't do: I tried a 5D. The have ONE with 24-105 VERY cheap, cheapter than the dubious hongkong sellers you'll found at ebay. And Yvonne isn't any help. I had the hope that she says "No, never" but she didn't do that. Orio! Help! Tell me that this camera is crap! The shop closes in about an hour! Very Happy

Michael

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04