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Okaya Highkor 40mm f1.8 lens
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:53 am    Post subject: Okaya Highkor 40mm f1.8 lens Reply with quote
This is a marvelous little lens that was produced only for two different cameras, the Lord SE and the Lord Martian. There are also Highkor 40mm f1.9 and f2.0 lenses made for other Lord cameras. I also have the f 1.9 but the f1.8 is even a bit wilder. It is notable for being semi-wide but still able to cover FF with little light falloff at the edges. It is also quite sharp! Here are a couple of first tries.













PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 you keep finding some interesting lenses Toby!


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very interesting lens, in fact. Thanks for sharing!

That looks like you have a special bite for lenses with watercolour bokeh. I wonder if you may have similar effects with more conventional photo lenses? I mean, is it definitely the lenses you prefer, or it is also the way you use them. Could you please post a shot taken with some "classic" photo lens, to let see how you work with bokeh.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:
Very interesting lens, in fact. Thanks for sharing!

That looks like you have a special bite for lenses with watercolour bokeh. I wonder if you may have similar effects with more conventional photo lenses? I mean, is it definitely the lenses you prefer, or it is also the way you use them. Could you please post a shot taken with some "classic" photo lens, to let see how you work with bokeh.


@Klaus--I keep hoping to stop finding interesting lenses!

@Alex--The lens that come closest to the Highkor in a normal mount is the Leotax Leonon 50mm f2, which is an old LTM lens from Japan. It has the same edgy bokeh. Apart from that, the Leitz Summitar 5cm f2 is somewhat similar, but the bokeh rings are less crisp. In terms of 35mm SLR lenses, I find the Cosina 55mm f1.2 to have some of that characteristic (that's the one in PK mount, not M42, and with 58mm front filter thread. The lens marked Cosina 55mm f1.2 with 55mm front filter thread is by Porst and is a different beast).

Another that I really like is the old Canon 50mm f1.2 LTM for the Canon 7. Some examples follow. I do do some post processing to emphasize the bokeh, but I have to say that it will not make a lens without the bokeh to begin with look like that. I do have an affection for a very edgy bokeh (called in Japanese nisen bokeh, "ni sen" meaning two lines.) It is generally caused by overcorrected spherical aberration. But overcorrecting the spherical aberration does not always result in the same kinds of gradations in the circles of confusion. These lenses all have thin bright outer edges to the circles.


#1 Leotax Leonon


#2 Leotax Leonon


#3 Leotax Leonon


#4 Leitz Summitar


#5 Leitz Summitar


#6 Cosina 55mm f1.2


#7 Cosina 55mm f1.2


#8 Canon 50mm f1.2 LTM


#9 Canon 50mm f1.2 LTM


But there are a bunch of "standard" lenses with interesting bokeh. We could start a thread on that. One I especially like is the Canon 50mm f0.95. A very different bokeh, but indeed "dreamy"



#1


#2


#3


#4


One thing to be kept in mind is that the "etched" effect appears only at certain focusing distances (as you can see a bit here). Too far away and the OOF areas are too small to really stand out, and too close and the OOF areas get soft and indistinct. So part of the "trick" is to find the right size subject at the right distance from at least some other elements in different focus areas. And of course, if you have bright highlights, especially specular ones, that really emphasizes the character of the bokeh.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is your site, right?

https://toby-marshall.com/


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yep, that's me


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Okaya Highkor 40mm f1.8 lens Reply with quote
[quote="kymarto"]This is a marvelous little lens that was produced only for two different cameras, the Lord SE and the Lord Martian. There are also Highkor 40mm f1.9 and f2.0 lenses made for other Lord cameras. I also have the f 1.9 but the f1.8 is even a bit wilder. It is notable for being semi-wide but still able to cover FF with little light falloff at the edges. It is also quite sharp! Here are a couple of first tries...[/quote]

Very nice indeed. I can see some flower shots that can be post-processed and enlarged to hang on the wall.
You made me go looking up ebay. I wonder how it can be adapted to a Nikon Z7, any ideas?
The Leotax Leonon 50mm f2 at least is an LTM mount, and maybe there is an LTM-to-Z helicoid adapter.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kymarto wrote:
Yep, that's me


I bought the Isco Westromat 35 f2.8 after i saw the samples on your site Smile So, thank you. I also got the Westromat 50 f1.9 (mine are the "plastic" versions from the 1964-1970 period), which should be the same optically as your Isco-mat 50 f1.9 https://photobutmore.de/exakta/isco/

One question, do you use an extension of some sort with the Canon LTM 50 F1.2? I have the lens and it has a long MFD.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you, Kymarto! I've already seen some of these shots in your posts. Presented this way now, it gives a very comprehensive overview.

I see better the point, and the lenses range. I find attractive your idea to create a thread on "special" bokeh. Looking at your samples, other two lenses came to my mind. The first is Fujian 1.7/35 which sometimes gives bokeh which may look a bit edgy like that, but triangular, not rounded as in your shots. The second is Hexanon 1.7/50 which has a much smoother OOF but with some post-procession close distance shots may look pretty unusual.

Here is an old example from Fujian



PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:17 am    Post subject: Telephoto Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is very unique bokeh and rendering.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Huh, this is special, i love it. Anyone knows the lens design?


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
Huh, this is special, i love it. Anyone knows the lens design?


Standard double gauss 6/4 most probably.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Okaya Highkor 40mm f1.8 lens Reply with quote
nightstreet wrote:
kymarto wrote:
This is a marvelous little lens that was produced only for two different cameras, the Lord SE and the Lord Martian. There are also Highkor 40mm f1.9 and f2.0 lenses made for other Lord cameras. I also have the f 1.9 but the f1.8 is even a bit wilder. It is notable for being semi-wide but still able to cover FF with little light falloff at the edges. It is also quite sharp! Here are a couple of first tries...


Very nice indeed. I can see some flower shots that can be post-processed and enlarged to hang on the wall.
You made me go looking up ebay. I wonder how it can be adapted to a Nikon Z7, any ideas?
The Leotax Leonon 50mm f2 at least is an LTM mount, and maybe there is an LTM-to-Z helicoid adapter.


The lens, I am told, screws directly into a C mount to M42 adapter ring, and that can be screwed directly into a 12-19mm M42 helicoid. Even if that is not the case, you can use the retaining ring that holds it on the camera body to secure it to a M42 flat ring. Disabling the shutter is a bit more of an issue, but if you are interested I can describe what I did.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tomasg wrote:
kymarto wrote:
Yep, that's me


I bought the Isco Westromat 35 f2.8 after i saw the samples on your site Smile So, thank you. I also got the Westromat 50 f1.9 (mine are the "plastic" versions from the 1964-1970 period), which should be the same optically as your Isco-mat 50 f1.9 https://photobutmore.de/exakta/isco/

One question, do you use an extension of some sort with the Canon LTM 50 F1.2? I have the lens and it has a long MFD.


What I did was to buy a macro focusing helicoid adapter for Leica M to Sony E, and the used a LTM to Leica M adapter ring to mount the lens. You can also pick up a set of Zenit M39 extension tubes, the shortest of which is 5mm, but I'm afraid you will miss a mid-close focusing range that way.

Another option is a M39 to M42 adapter ring and the mount in a 10-15mm M42 helicoid, but you will probably just miss infinity focus with that.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kymarto wrote:
tomasg wrote:
kymarto wrote:
Yep, that's me


I bought the Isco Westromat 35 f2.8 after i saw the samples on your site Smile So, thank you. I also got the Westromat 50 f1.9 (mine are the "plastic" versions from the 1964-1970 period), which should be the same optically as your Isco-mat 50 f1.9 https://photobutmore.de/exakta/isco/

One question, do you use an extension of some sort with the Canon LTM 50 F1.2? I have the lens and it has a long MFD.


What I did was to buy a macro focusing helicoid adapter for Leica M to Sony E, and the used a LTM to Leica M adapter ring to mount the lens. You can also pick up a set of Zenit M39 extension tubes, the shortest of which is 5mm, but I'm afraid you will miss a mid-close focusing range that way.

Another option is a M39 to M42 adapter ring and the mount in a 10-15mm M42 helicoid, but you will probably just miss infinity focus with that.
Like 1


PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been looking for an optical diagram for the Leonon lens, but no luck so far....

The Topcor was easier, I had found them before.
https://l39camera.com/紅塵緣影-tokyo-kogaku-topcor-l39系列/

http://www.topgabacho.jp/Topconclub/lenscut.htm


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
I've been looking for an optical diagram for the Leonon lens, but no luck so far....

The Topcor was easier, I had found them before.
https://l39camera.com/紅塵緣影-tokyo-kogaku-topcor-l39系列/

http://www.topgabacho.jp/Topconclub/lenscut.htm


All that I have seen suggests that the Topcor S renders quite differently than the Leonon. All the images that I have seen from the Topcor show a much smoother OOF circle (or oval). It is a bit misleading to try to discern the bokeh from the optical formula. It seems pretty certain, judging from internal reflections, that the Leonon is a classic 6/4 double gauss design, just as the Topcor S is, but there are wildly different kinds of bokeh renderings from classic double gauss lenses, depending on the correction for spherical aberration. I have a number of double gauss lenses, and they bokeh is quite different between them. For example, I just adapted a "Canter-S" 4.5cm f1.9 from another old Japanese rangefinder camera, which I know is double gauss, and in fact resembles somewhat the Topcor-S diagram that you posted. Here is the diagram, a slightly atypical asymmetrical double gauss (which uses lanthanum glass):




Here is a pic taken with this lens, followed by a pic taken with the Leonon. You'll see quite a difference in rendering.


#1 Canter


#2 Leonon


From all I have seen, the Topcon should render closer to what the Canter does.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, what I meant was that the Leotax cameras were also often fitted with the Topcor-S 50mm f2. I don't understand why there were two different 50mm f2 lenses available at the same time. There was also a faster option available, the Leotax Simlar 50mm f1.5, and there was also a Leotax Leonon-S version, which had a slightly different mechanical design. I don't know if the optics were different.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blazer0ne: Congratulations on finding that wonderful lens. You're not going to get the funky bokeh that Toby gets without extensive enhancement through post processing. However, once you find the distances where the lens renders the best bokeh, you'll really enjoy it. I find mine to be very sharp in the center, and when the bokeh plays well, it all comes together very well.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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