Odd 30's era 4x5

jamaeolus · Expire: 2015-08-20

This e-bay post has me totally puzzled. It says Bee Gee in the add but it clearly is Bee Bee on the camera. Other markers: Monitor, Vario, anastigmat velostigmat, and a partial image of what looks to me like an ANSCO logo. After a bit of research I find Bee Bee was a Certo name for a US model certotop per Camerapedia. "Bee Bee A (6.5�9) & B (9�12). Export version of the Certotrop, distributed in the U.S. by Burleigh Brooks.", also per Camerapedia. Monitor was a name used by Kodak. and Vario was a name used by Gauthier for a series of leaf shutters. While the velostigmat was a Wollensak lens. It seems a mashup of components. It seems to me Kodak would be unlikely to team with Ansco as they were part of IG Farben's conglomerate that also included one of kodaks main film competitors AGFA. My best guess: the Monitor viewfinder was not original, and the camera is actually a Certo Bee Bee.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-4X5-View-Camera-Monitor-Vario-Bee-Gee-As-Is-No-Back-/181540612622?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item2a44a9ea0e

philslizzy · Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4748 Location: Cheshire, England

The viewfinder is defo modern aftermarket. If it goes cheap enough it may be a nice little collectable - maybe even usable. Despite their pedigree, mongrels can be loveable and special.

Cameras - not dogs, well dogs too!! Very Happy

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Actually, the viewfinder is from a 1940s/50s Kodak Monitor folder which was a high end model with Supermatic shutters and Ektar lenses. They came in 620 and 616 formats.

jamaeolus · Expire: 2015-08-20

Right now its at 28 USD. I'm concerned at how hard it would be to find a back. The dimensions 6.5x9 or 9x12 are the #s given in camerapedia for Bee Bee plate cameras. I would assume the larger corresponds to 4 x 5. Were the backs of that era proprietary? Looking at the 1 example of certotrop on e-bay it is clear from the rack and pinion focus and general appearance of the base its from the same outfit. But the wollensak/ vario with ANSCO logo (I may be wrong on the logo) is still a bit puzzling to me.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Get a 6x9 Graflex, they aren't expensive and are a hell of a lot more camera, I adore mine - a Century Graphic.

http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/century-graphic.html

jamaeolus · Expire: 2015-08-20

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

Looks like a 6.5x9 version probably as that was typical with a 10.5cm lens.
Lens is most likely replaced later. The lens is a front cell focusing type, almost certainly a triplet, that probably came off a 6x9 format roll film folder.
These plate camera models could be had with triplets as the cheap options in the package, but I doubt very much that a front cell lens would have been offered.
The Certo Certotrop aka "Bee-Bee" often had quite high end lenses and an interchangable lens system. Quite a high end package, comparable with the Voigtlander Bergheil and Zeiss/Ica Ideal.

The back will very likely be a problem. The Certotrop had a proprietary pop-on back system similar to but not identical with the Zeiss Ideal. This one may be the more usual back with rails, but I doubt it. 6x9 120 film holders can be found for the rail back models but I have never seen one for the pop-on back types. I did a bit of tweaking on a Rada 120 back once and got it to stay on a Certotrop but there were light leaks and it didn't quite match the groundglass. 6x9 backs (Rada, Rollex, Suydam) are available but much harder to find than the cameras.

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

Ditto re Graflex/Graphic.
On top of everything roll film backs are very easy to find and affordable.
And even if the camera was not made for roll film backs they are very easily adapted.

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

9x12 was substantially smaller than 4x5
It was closer to the popular 3 1/4 x 4 1/4.
I have a couple of US-made spring backs for German 9x12 plate cameras that I believe were made to take the wooden 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 film holders.

dan_ · Expire: 2016-12-19

It looks like a 6.5x9 and not a 4"x5" or 9x12 camera to me. Not only the focal length of the lens but also the proportion of the front of the camera in relation with the Vario shutter lead to this conclusion.

The lens looks like a Velostigmat, which means it's probably a Tessar type. Not bad, but nothing special. The shutter is a cheap one, with only the basic speeds. Not very useful. A cheap shutter was usually used with a cheap lens.

The roll film backs that will most probably fit are the older and quite primitive Rollex. The Rada roll film backs, which are much better and easier to use, won't fit directly but, with a modification (on both the camera and the roll film back), they could be made to fit. The old metal sheet film holders may fit, but not all of them (Plaubel won't fit for sure). But most metal 6.5x9 film holders were made for glass and not for sheet film. You need to find the sheet film adapters for glass holders, as well. They are hard to find.

The camera won't be very easy to use, the roll film back is quite hard to find, the lens is nothing special, the shutter is a cheap one....
It's hard to make it work, not easy to use it and not very rewarding (due to the lens & shutter).
IMO the camera it's better for display than for actually making photos.
Ian's advice is probably the best.

jamaeolus · Expire: 2015-08-20

Thank you. You guys are amazing. I am trying hard to learn the ins and outs of these antique cameras and usually with a half hour of Google fu can solve most of my questions. But when I get really oddball things (like this!) you guys really know your stuff! Greatly appreciated.