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No more dithering: Development kit is bought
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:37 am    Post subject: No more dithering: Development kit is bought Reply with quote
And speaking of kits, freestyle has one for about $50. I looked up the items for single-purchase and there are some savings there.
I can buy chemicals locally. Tri-X will be my film, I reckon, although the local supply house has Kentmere and Ilford, too. Is Kentmere re-badged Ilford?
Key question: which developer for Tri-X? This local shop has Ilford and Kodak products, powdered and liquid and one-shot. What say ye on developer for Tri-X, and why?
Keep it simple, please ... Cool

Last edited by fish4570 on Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: No more dithering: shopping for development kit Reply with quote
fish4570 wrote:
And speaking of kits, freestyle has one for about $50. I looked up the items for single-purchase and there are some savings there.


I looked at that kit myself, but I couldn't tell if it would still be worth it after getting the other things needed. Neutral We're talking about the $56 kit (http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5055-Arista-Classic-Darkroom-Kit?cat_id=1603), right?
freestylephoto wrote:
Arista Classic Darkroom Kit
Model: 5055

This darkroom kit is an outstanding value! It contains all the accessories you need to develop black and white or color film. Kit contains:
- 1 graduated 50 ml cylinder
- 1 graduated 600 ml vessel
- 1 film squeegee
- 2 film clips
- 1 Classic developing tank
- 1 stirring paddle
- 1 thermometer
- 3 - 8" x 10" developing trays
- 3 plastic printing tongs
- and 2 Classic film reels


The problem I saw with it was that it was sort of half way between a full darkroom kit (prints and all) and a film only (no prints / no darkroom) development kit.
  • If you're just doing film developing, you won't use half of the kit contents, and you still need to buy a film cartridge opener ($10), a changing bag ($22), etc.
  • If you have a darkroom and will be doing film AND prints, you will need a film cartridge opener ($10), a safelight ($25), an enlarger ($200+ with expensive shipping), a timer ($100+), and the plastic tongs in the kit will scratch prints, so you will need to pick up some rubber tongs ($5).



So... yeah... I haven't bought anything yet either. Neutral I have been looking at auctions though, as used darkroom equipment often comes as a package deal, sometimes includes an enlarger, and sells for a fraction of the new price if chemicals or an enlarger are involved because of the shipping hassles. Cool


PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: No more dithering: shopping for development kit Reply with quote
Scheimpflug wrote:
The problem I saw with it was that it was sort of half way between a full darkroom kit (prints and all) and a film only (no prints / no darkroom) development kit.
  • If you're just doing film developing, you won't use half of the kit contents, and you still need to buy a film cartridge opener ($10), a changing bag ($22), etc.
  • If you have a darkroom and will be doing film AND prints, you will need a film cartridge opener ($10), a safelight ($25), an enlarger ($200+ with expensive shipping), a timer ($100+), and the plastic tongs in the kit will scratch prints, so you will need to pick up some rubber tongs ($5).

I agree with this sensible thinking.

I would also recommend a 1 litre graduated jug for mixing and another 600ml container, one for dev and one for fixer. Having only one means you have to wash it out and mix the fixer during the development time. Rolling Eyes You'll also need a way of timing the processes, unless you do what I did at first, use the microwave dinger! Smile

As I don't have a darkroom I bought everything separately, and it cost less than the kit.

Could I suggest you read my sticky thread which lists all the equipment and chemicals you need:
http://forum.mflenses.com/bandw-developing-essential-answers-t3238.html

As for developer, for simplicity and ease of use I'd recommend starting with a liquid, such as Kodak T-Max or Ilford DD-X, and then you can try different types when you have a little experience.

Last edited by peterqd on Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
For film, you might want to look at Freestyle Legacy Pro 400 which is rebranded Fuji film and costs less than 2$ a roll.

As for the kit, as others have mentioned above you'd better shop on ebay.

A few things you will find locally: the thermometer at aquarium supply stores; the graduated jugs at kitchen stores; the bottles are only really useful for the fixer, if you use one-shot developer, and you can start by using a plastic milk bottle or similar; to hang the film you can use the clips you use to hang the laundry to dry. What you need to buy then is a changing bag and a tank. The film can opener is not necessary: you can simply use a bottle opener inside the changing bag, and pop off the film can lid.

The choice of developer might be trickier, but in your place I'd use a general purpose one-shot developer like Agfa Rodinal or Kodak HC-110. They are very easy to use, as you don't have to mix powders and the concentrate keeps almost indefinitely. And you can use different dilutions for regular, semi-stand, or stand development.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any of the liquid developers you mix into one-shot use are simple and easy to use - I re-started with Tmax developer, and I'm not sure why I haven't continued with it... Ilford makes several good ones as well. D-76 is the classic all purpose, you mix it from powder - you can get a liter size which is convenient to start with.

For easy use, I recommend the Patterson/Jobo style plastic tank/reel sets - if you get one that does 2 x 135 at a time you can use the tank for medium format as well. I bought the cheapest one at B&H, Samigon is the brand, and it works fine.

You don't need some of the bits in the kit, e.g. the squeegee and tongs and trays for film only.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good advice, all. No printing for me; negs only. First decision made: I will not buy the kit.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Make sure you report back when you do end up purchasing supplies. Like I said, I'm in the same boat and haven't bought anything yet either. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I ordered tonight from B&H a Paterson plastic two-reel tank that comes with one reel, plus an extra reel. I will pick up the rest of the kit at Walmart and pet store and other such places. The chems I will get at a local pro shop. Thanks for all of the help, guys.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fish4570 wrote:
I ordered tonight from B&H a Paterson plastic two-reel tank that comes with one reel, plus an extra reel. I will pick up the rest of the kit at Walmart and pet store and other such places. The chems I will get at a local pro shop. Thanks for all of the help, guys.


Don't forget distilled water for the final rinse.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, I just got back from buying all the rest of the kit, including chemicals.
HC-110 was not available. Ended up with TMax developer, Kodafix and Photo-Flo for an all-Kodak chemical line-up. I will have to get some distilled water at the grocery store.
And I bought two rolls of Tri-X while I was in the pro shop. Man, that stuff is expensive when bought in a boutique, $5 per roll. Shocked (I smell some 'net shopping for film.)
As for the graduated bottles and stirrer and such, I got all of that at Walmart. Here is the cost list:
Aquarium thermometer: $1.63
Bottle opener: $1.50
Film clips, pack of six, heavy plastic with wide mouths: $1.97
Stirrer: my choice of one long-handled plastic spoon in a pack of four: $.97
1.9 liter graduated mixing jug: $1.97
3 750-milliliter graduated storage containers with screw-on lids: $2.94
Syringe for meat flavor injection graduated in milliliters: $3.97
variety pack of 4 funnels: $1.97
Timer (we have stuff to handle that): $0.
Total cost from Walmart: $16.92

Cost of Paterson Universal tank and extra reel from B&H: $31 with free shipping (saved $6 under cost at cost pro shop) .

Total non-chemical start-up cost: $46.92. I know I could haved a bunch on a used tank and reels, but I want to start clean with something I know has no defects.

Tmax developer, 757 mls (makes 1 gallon): $16.
Kodafix, 946 mls, (makes 1 gallon): $10.
Photo-Flo, 473 mls, mixes 1/200: $9. (I figure I will not to buy more of that for a long while)

Total: $81.92

What say ye? Have I forgotten anything but distilled water?


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No changing bag? Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am going with a dark bathroom first. If I have trouble there, I will get a changing bag. But if I can find a bargain, maybe I will go ahead and order one tonight ... Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can't wait to hear news of your first development: opening the tank for the first time is something magical. I see an enlarger in your future... Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paul, if you can wait for the postage, I have a spare brand new changing bag, unopened. It's yours if you want it.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh no, Peter! About an hour ago I ordered a changing bag from Adorama. Thank you, though, for your kind offer.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ludo, I seldom had to develop film 30 and more years ago when I was city editor at a smaller paper. The photogs would slip me some bulk rolled Tri-X every now and then, and run my film with theirs. But I did my own prints, with my own paper. I spent many an hour in the darkroom dodging this and burning that. My daughter has one print. I have asked her to get a pro-shop scan done of it so I can share it with you guys. That framed print is 31 years old and looks as well as it did on its birthday. It always has been hung out of direct sunlight ...


PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fish4570 wrote:
And I bought two rolls of Tri-X while I was in the pro shop. Man, that stuff is expensive when bought in a boutique, $5 per roll. Shocked (I smell some 'net shopping for film.)


Sometimes you have to take what you can get... Tri-X runs about NZ $10.20/roll ($US 6.80) plus shipping here in NZ. The only locally available B&W film for me is old-stock Fuji Neopan at NZ $20/roll (US $13.32). Shocked Most places just stock the C-41 B&W films. Sad


PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ow! Shocked


PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just a word of warning: Kodak's bottles are alike. Photo-flo does NOT develop film well, though your equipment will be clean. Go ahead, ask me how I know that.

I put the photo-flo into a tiny dropper bottle, re purposed from nose drops, say, or kids medicine. Then I put the Kodak bottle in a place where I will not ever again mistake it for Tmax developer.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh my, I see what you are talking about. They are three different sizes, but all the same shape ... Shocked
That is good info, Jussi. Decanting may be required ...


PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My tank and reels came today while I was driving home from Florida. Already I have practiced spooling film with eyes closed tight. The Paterson reels seem to do a bang-up job. I will buy distilled water Saturday morning, but we have to attend an evening wedding. Perhaps I will try to develop my first roll of Tri-X on Saturday night or early Sunday morning. I had better be successful. I got some good shots on the docks and on the bay in Pensacola ... Shocked


PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is the China solution Click here to see on Ebay
Is that about $2,50/roll?

How I have a feeling that there is some difference between Tri-X developing and other films in times, temperatures and other parameters?


PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you have an iPhone or iPod touch or iPad, get Massive Dev Chart app. It has all the info you can get from their website, plus a handy automatic calculator for temperature compensation, etc. Much easier to use it than always trying to get all your chemicals and baths to 20˚C (especially hard to do during the warm months of the year, when room temperature is already 25˚C Smile

In terms of film, I've been shooting & developing film for over 1 year now, and I currently have 200+ rolls of MF film, 300+ sheets of 4x5, and 30 rolls of 35mm in the fridge right now, and 95% of that are expired and gotten for anywhere from free (as in beer) to half the retail price. Very rarely have I been dissatisfied with them (and those were ones I *knew* would be problematic. The ones that had been kept refrigerated/frozen, have no problems at all).
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