Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Nikon DF retro FF "f" like body coming next week.
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Digital SLR Cameras
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK so I spent the first two hours this morning familiarizing myself with the Nikon Df body and 50/1.8G AF-S Special Edition lens. As usual with versions that have not passed quality control, I wasn't allowed to insert my own memory card and take photos with the kit. Specs are widely covered elsewhere, so I'll focus on first impressions.

- Split prism focusing screen. Not available from Nikon, but it'll likely take 1 week before a 3rd party manufacturer introduces one.

- Size. It's bigger than a Nikon FM2 but smaller than a D800. For someone who has used the D800/D800E and D4 side-by side daily for almost two years, I find the Df to be very handy in size and lightweight. Here are size comparison photos a gentleman attending the announcement this morning took: http://www.sulantoblog.fi/nikon-df-julkistettu/

- Mechanical quality is outstanding, very sturdy and professional feel coupled with good grip. I can easily imagine it being coupled with Zeiss ZF lenses to perfect the overall high mechanical quality and fine-clicking tolerances in controls. The control wheel clicks btw sound really good.

- Control layout. Unsurprisingly, drawing inspiration from the excellent 35mm SLRs Nikon made: FM2, F3 etc.
What I personally liked was how they'd kept good control solutions and mated them with new innovation. For example: The ability to control shutter speed with full f-stops from control wheel (like on the FM2 and F3) but also adding a 1/3 stop option, where rear control wheel changes shutter speed with 1/3 f-stop increments. Likewise, adding shooting modes without adding control wheels. So long to accidentally bumping control wheels, they're locked with switches and easily turned when needed.

- Closer look at control layout. I find it logical to place less often needed control wheels on my left (ISO, EV compensation) and they also have sturdy and easy to switch locks to avoid accidental turn of wheels. On the right hand side are shutter speed, aperture control wheel (for AF-D and AF-S lenses), shooting modes S/Cl/Ch/Q/Self timer/Mirror up and of course ON/OFF, shutter release and M/A/S/P exposure modes (and mini LCD backlight). Rear panel has all the stuff exactly where I'm used to see it on DSLRs, except for metering mode (Matrix/Center/Spot) which is far better solved than it is on the D800 & D800E

- Backwards compatibility. Sure, with Ai modification every Nikon F-mount lens can be used on a modern Nikon DSLR and they meter with pro bodies, but the Df goes further: no need for Ai modification, it has the mechanical "prong" you just switch down to enable lens to tell body what aperture you are in. Metering with every Nikon F-mount lens made since 1959, I know of no other camera manufacturer that provides this backwards compatibility for their camera system.

- Handsome. Yes, it sure is good-looking. Adding emotional reasons (retro style, fond memories etc.) to rationale (most sensitive DSLR sensor on the market) will likely make it very easy to sell to every lady and gentleman who have not sold their old manual focus Nikon F-mount lenses.

- Impact on aftermarket: I don't expect it to bump the price of old manual focus Nikkors, but I would be very surprised if it didn't mean an increase in eBay listings for F-mount lenses and SLR accessories like straps etc.

Did I order one? Yes, in black.

My Df will arrive by Nov/Dec change and after that it will see service as my wedding backup body (replacing the D800E which I can then put to studio product photography use only). It will also see daily use as a walk-around camera, because while I really prefer something smaller than say a D800, I don't want a smaller sensor because I really have become spoiled by the D4 sensors ability to turn night into hand-held day shooting. Living in Finland where from October to April daylight hours are scarce, you really want that sensitivity.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thx a lot Vilhelm for your return of experience.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:

Metering with every Nikon F-mount lens made since 1959, I know of no other camera manufacturer that provides this backwards compatibility for their camera system.

Pentax?


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vilhelm, that sounds like a really awesome camera for a dedicated Nikon user.

Got one question for you: do you happen to know what Nikon is referring to when they call it a "hybrid"?


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
do you happen to know what Nikon is referring to when they call it a "hybrid"?


As far as I can read, none of the official Nikon press release or brochure uses the word "hybrid". Df stands for "Digital Fusion", and the announcement informed us the camera was dubbed Df from "Digital Fusion" because it fuses/merges modern DSLR technology in a classical SLR shell and control layout.

I suspect the Nikon Rumors (and subsequently one million blogs) choice of word "hybrid" is originally a translation error Japanese to English (Nikon Rumors pre-release rumor post said that NR is confused to what "hybrid" may mean in this context).

Farside wrote:
Pentax?


You mean Pentax has a full frame DSLR that would mechanically and electronically couple and meter with every lens ever made in M42 mount? Perhaps it's just me, but I don't see "adaptable" as a synonym to "supported" or "compatible".


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox lucius wrote:
but the Df goes further: no need for Ai modification, it has the mechanical "prong" you just switch down to enable lens to tell body what aperture you are in


did these people have some other version?
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-df/3

dpreview wrote:
But before you run out and buy up every old 1960s Nikkor prime you can find, bear in mind that without an Ai tab there remains no way for a lens to directly communicate its aperture to a moder Nikon camera's metering system. It's just not possible. As such, using a pre-Ai lens on the Df is not as fluid as using an Ai equivalent.


edit: 3199,90 € with 50/1.8 lens and 24% vat here


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was wrong in choice of words, yes. Physical aperture communication with pre-Ai is not possible.

Exposure meter coupling: Combined CPU and AI (collapsible metering coupling lever).

Which means that pre-Ai will meter and see correct exposures from CPU.

Semantics about method used aside, end result for camera user is the same.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here in France, I read that Hybrid means :

At first glance, it is indeed a "hybrid" as announced by Nikon, not in the usual sense, but a mix between a traditional film and digital ergonomics. Back to the top of the unit toothed wheels, gears and ISO, the expo shift. For Stops, it is likely through the wheel it will be, for lack of manual control on the lens.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Olivier wrote:
For Stops, it is likely through the wheel it will be, for lack of manual control on the lens.


For aperture control on the Df;

1) pre Ai lenses: change aperture by turning the aperture ring on the lens, CPU metering fully

2) Ai & Ai-S lenses: change aperture by turning the aperture ring on lens, CPU meters and also if you have programmed memory slot in menu with focal length and max aperture --> metering and correct EXIF saved in file

3) AF-D lenses: aperture change either from front control ring or lens aperture ring, your choice both work and meter fully

4) AF-S lenses: aperture change from front control ring only (AF-S lenses have no aperture ring), full metering of course


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox lucius wrote:

For aperture control on the Df;

1) pre Ai lenses: change aperture by turning the aperture ring on the lens, CPU metering fully


Don't you also have to select the (displayed) aperture on the body to match your lens's actual aperture in order for the metering to work? That's what I understood from reading the dpreview preview.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That sounds really weird and I smell misunderstanding or biased flaming, but as I don't have the Df by me I can't check that out right now.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
From dpreview :

Normally, pre-Ai lenses will jam if you try to mount them on a modern D/SLR body but the Ai indexing tab around the Df's lens mount can be folded out of the way to allow very old lenses designed before the Ai standard was introduced to be mounted without jamming.

For metering, you use the camera's command dials, and then transfer the appropriate aperture setting directly to the lens's aperture ring.

What the Df does allow you do, however, is specify a pre-Ai lens in the non-CPU lenses dialog, at which point you can flip the Ai tab out of the way, attach the lens then use the camera's command dial to select aperture (within the lens' aperture range) for metering, then physically set the aperture ring on the lens to the desired setting for exposure.

In this scenario the working method is rather like using a hand-held light meter and then transferring its recommended exposure settings to the camera, except it's the camera doing the metering. Hopefully that makes sense - if not, I'll give you a minute to read it again, slowly.

It seems to be the same as MF lenses mounted on a Canon body with EMF chip adapter ring.
In manual mode, let the aperture ring at wide open, set speed and aperture so that exposure is ok for what you want, for instance 1/200 f5.6, then close the aperture ring on the lens to 5.6 and take the shot. The inner metering system will tell you it's incorrect but photo will be well exposed.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
perhaps I am the only one to see the similarity...



Its a big ugly looking bugger


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I read that Dpreview text 4 times and I still don't get it. It sounds like Google Translate, worst English I have read in a long time.

Whatever, pre Ai will attach and meter with the Df - I really don't give a rat's ass how, as long as it does.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.whatblogisthis.com/2013/11/nikon-releases-df-camera-that-tom.html

Quote:
In an exclusive interview, we sat down with Nikon Df Large Team Leader Suzuki Kawasaki to discuss the inspiration and aspirations of the new dF.

“When I was asked to lead the Nikon Large Df Team, I was very excited. I knew that the Df needed to be special, incorporating the latest technology but also respecting our heritage and the roots of Nikon. Our history is filled with wonderful moments captured by talented photographers using Nikon cameras. So we asked ourselves, ‘what does it mean to be a Nikon? What does it mean to be a Nikonian?’ We were surprised by what we found as we looked back through time-a lot of ugly cameras.”

Widely recognized as one of the great camera makers, Nikon cameras can be seen on the sidelines of major sporting events, along the fashion runways of Milan, Paris, and New York, and in conflict zones around the world. What Kawasaki and the Large Df Team noticed time and time again, was that photographers bought Nikon whether or not they were beautiful.

“Let’s face it-we’ve made some ugly cameras. Like really ugly ones. But for some reason, people liked them. We made a lot of especially ugly cameras in the 90s, like the N5005 with “Nikon” written on the grip. And in the 70s, the F2 Photomic SB was, we really have to admit, just hideous. And the Nikonos? You really have to be drunk or underwater to think that is a beautiful camera. Yet people still bought them, and now we are highly regarded. But I think that over the years that we have gotten away from ugly cameras, moving instead to blobs. Only recently have we begun drawing inspiration from this part of our Nikon heritage.”



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Saw it just now ....well, THAT's a beautiful camera.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
my two cents: i think we all forgot what real analogue cameras actually look like! i am no nikon fan, but this camera, in function and form, makes me wish i were.
tony


PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
my two cents: i think we all forgot what real analogue cameras actually look like! i am no nikon fan, but this camera, in function and form, makes me wish i were.
tony


I agree, very nice camera indeed Wink


PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Nikon Df Gold Edition Reply with quote
Nikon Df Gold Edition camera announced in Japan:

http://www.nikon-image.com/event/campaign/df_gold_edition/index.htm
http://nikonrumors.com/2014/11/14/nikon-df-gold-edition-camera-announced-in-japan.aspx/
http://petapixel.com/2014/11/14/nikon-announces-a-gold-adorned-model-of-its-black-nikon-df-in-japan/


PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://petapixel.com/2014/10/30/41395-thats-much-24k-gold-nikon-df-will-cost/

Thanks to Nikon, THAT was what I'd waiting for sooo long!
Now my pics will get better & better!


PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
edz wrote:
Esox lucius wrote:

For aperture control on the Df;

1) pre Ai lenses: change aperture by turning the aperture ring on the lens, CPU metering fully


Don't you also have to select the (displayed) aperture on the body to match your lens's actual aperture in order for the metering to work? That's what I understood from reading the dpreview preview.

Yes.

The Df can use every Nikkor lens (except some really weird ones).

It's just like Esox wrote, only with the addition that you have to tell the camera the aperture set at the lens by turning the front wheel with your index finger. A very simple and quick process.

The Df meters perfectly with any Nikon bayonet lens I have tried so far.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox lucius wrote:
I read that Dpreview text 4 times and I still don't get it. It sounds like Google Translate, worst English I have read in a long time.


Normally, I like their tests, and they find out many pro and con aspects of a cam, but I do not agree to their results about image quality. The Df offes an image quality (JPG and RAW) that I haven't seen in any other cam, including the Sony A7 or the Fuji X-T1!
(And those two cams are darn good already!)


PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
duckrider wrote:
http://petapixel.com/2014/10/30/41395-thats-much-24k-gold-nikon-df-will-cost/

Thanks to Nikon, THAT was what I'd waiting for sooo long!
Now my pics will get better & better!


Yeah, indeed, another camera and another and another ....

No wonder people have no time anymore to concetrate on taking good pictures Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hehe, makes you wonder how folks like Ansel managed as well as they did, having to piddle and muss about with all those primitive bellows and film holders and noxious chemicals and such . . .

Honestly, I can't help but like the looks of the DF and the fact that any Nikkor (except for a small handful of specialty lenses) can be used with it, but also honestly, its price puts me off, especially when considering it's "only" a 16mp camera. Even the Samsung Galaxy S5 smartphone has 16mp. But mp aren't everything, I remind myself. Still, I wish it weren't priced out of my range, cuz it sure would be nice to have a FF Nikon for my old pre-AI Nikkors.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
16MP??? That 16MP sensor is right out of the D4s and has awesome low light capability. I am even liking the look at 3200 iso. It is a bit pricey but it really wakes up all my MF lenses.
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Digital SLR Cameras
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3