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Night shooting lens
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:57 am    Post subject: Night shooting lens Reply with quote

Hi,

I am a newbie on the forum but watching and reading for some time Smile.

I am looking for a night photo lens for Nex5, as I am in "collectors" mode for M42 lenses, could be one of them.

In February I will go to Asia and would like to chase some urban landscapes as good as people.

I was thinking about Flektagon but as many people as many opinions, I am also searching among old russian lenses in.ex. Mir or Jupiter

Thanks a lot


PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a focal length around 50mm suits you there should be no shortage of fast affordable lenses, that can be adapted to your Nex. I'm rather keen on the Pentax M50 /1.7 though thats not a M42 mount. The Helios 44 series aren't significantly slower & are generally well thought of. Both of mine were under £5 & one came with a free camera Smile

Going wider there are many options to about 28mm though it will generally cost a stop or two of light. I find adapting lenses wider than 28mm often runs into problems, as the shorter focal lengths make bigger demands on adapter tolerances.

If a focal reducer is available it will restore some of the original FOV of full frame lenses & concentrate the light typically giving you an extra stop.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DConvert wrote:
If a focal length around 50mm suits you there should be no shortage of fast affordable lenses, that can be adapted to your Nex. I'm rather keen on the Pentax M50 /1.7 though thats not a M42 mount. The Helios 44 series aren't significantly slower & are generally well thought of. Both of mine were under £5 & one came with a free.


I have zero experience with Pentax lenses, regarding nex-pentax adaptor: does it work as M42 which means that all remains manual ?

Based on reviews and opinions (made mainly for daylight photo) I was thinking about :

- Schneider-Kreuznach Edixa Xenar 2.8/50 - I know that Schneider 1.7 is great but it's hard to find interesting bargain
- CZ Flektogon 35 2,8
- Zenitar 50 1.7
- Ennalyt 35 3,5
- CZ Biometar 80 2.8 or Vega 90 2.8
- Yashica 50 1,7
- Porst 55 1,4
- Helios 40 85 1,7
- Minolta Rokkor 50 1,4 or 28 2,8

I know that I have to keep in mind that APS-C means 1,5 which moves =/> 50 mm lenses to portrait and tele.
and I have no clue how all these lenses works in low light / night


PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minolta MD 1.4/58mm imho good choice

look at Nikon Nikkor-O 2.0/35mm and
Jupiter 2.0/50mm M39

i love at night the Meostigmat 1.0/70mm (works fine at APS-C on my Nex-6, here on the A7)



PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolfhansen wrote:
Minolta MD 1.4/58mm imho good choice

look at Nikon Nikkor-O 2.0/35mm and
Jupiter 2.0/50mm M39

i love at night the Meostigmat 1.0/70mm (works fine at APS-C on my Nex-6, here on the A7)



Great photo !!!

How to attach Meostigmat to Nex 5 ?


PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends also on what you mean for night photography. Static subjects can be photographed with any lens and sufficiently long times (thus, tripod). Dynamic subjects need a fast lens, thus look only at low aperture numbers: in your list the range is from 1.4 to 3.5, just something less than three stops! However, you know that shooting at 1.4 will give just few centimeters of depth of field, so it is not always adequate.
Anyway, the porst 55/1.4 you mention is available under many brand names, you can pick any and will likely be always the same.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

APS-C means you want a wide-angle lens for street shooting.
Vintage lenses are still pricey due to complicated retrofocus designs to deal with 35mm format registers.

f/2.8 is fast enough for shooting brightly lit urban environments. But f/2 and faster would be better.
There are some 24mm f/2 available, but hard to find for a good price. One would give you about 35mm focal length. A normal prime FOV.
But you'll need 18mm or less to hit the wide-angle range. Don't know of any that are f/2 or better. If there are any, they won't be affordable.

If you can accept a nifty-fifty, lot's of choices...
My suggestions...

Konica Hexanon AR 40mm f/1.8 (the 10mm less F.L. works in your favor. Compact.)
Konica Hexanon AR 50mm f/1.7 (still affordable, well built, fast focusing, razor sharp, but the largest body listed.)
Minolta MD Rokkor 50mm f/1.7 (the 55mm dia. filter version is the best one. alternative to the Konica 50-f/1.7.)
Olympus OM Zuiko 50mm f/1.8 (affordable, multi-coated versions better, edge-to-edge tack sharp. Very compact.)

M42 recommendations:

Yashica Yashinon DX 50mm f/1.7 (M42, the later DS version is identical, and the Thorium element provides better sharpness and bokeh. Warm colors. Still affordable, Sharp! fast focusing, very smooth operation thanks to the healthy sized brass barrel. Very attractive build....Bauhaus-like (DX).)
Super or S-M-C Takumar 55mm f/1.8 (M42, reputation precedes it, period.)
Mamiya/Sekor AUTO 55mm f/1.8 (M42, alternative to the Takumars, just as nice IMHO.)

Slower affordable f/2 lenses:
Jupiter 8 in M39
Helios 44M in M42 (but 58mm is pushing it way out there!)
Yashinon DS 50mm f/2 or f/1.9 in M42
Minolta MD-III 50mm f/2
Minolta MD Rokkor 45mm f/2
SMC Pentax-M 50mm f/2
Yashica ML 50mm f/1.9-2

Faster and more expensive f/1.4: (must deal with narrower DOF on the street)
Canon FD S.C.C. 50-f/1.4
Minolta MC Rokkor-PG or MD Rokkor (MD-I) 50-f/1.4
Konica Hexanon AR 50-f/1.4
Olympus OM Zuiko MC 50-f/1.4

Left out most European/Russian choices since they are less available and pricier in the USA.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schneider-Kreuznach Edixa Xenar 2.8/50 - I know that Schneider 1.7 is great but it's hard to find interesting bargain
I don't know this lens, good reputation though

- CZ Flektogon 35 2,8
Wonderful lens, I use it a lot on NEX5 and A6000

- Zenitar 50 1.7
- Ennalyt 35 3,5
- CZ Biometar 80 2.8 or Vega 90 2.8
Don't know these.

- Yashica 50 1,7
Great lens, it's cheap and sharp.

- Porst 55 1,4
Don't know this either

- Helios 40 85 1,7
I want one of these, great reputation.


- Minolta Rokkor 50 1,4 or 28 2,8
I have both, really nice lenses. They will not dissapoint you.

Also consider these M42 lenses, all are cheap and very good.
Takumar 28 / 2.8 + 50 / 1.8
MIR 1B 37 / 2.8 ( Russian Flektogon )
Mamiya Sekor 55 / 1.8 possibly the most under rated lens in the 50mm range, and dirt cheap.
If you like the bubble bokeh, try the Fujinon 55 / 2.2 it's slow, sharp and bubbly when wide ope. And so cheap you might get given one


PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're shooting from tripod, thigives you some interesting possibilities, I really liked my Olympus OM 21/3.5 and 50/1.4 for night shooting, bright lights didn't show any coma, my current favourite is the Voigtländer 15/4.5 Super Wide Heliar III.
If you really want to shoot hand held, save up for an A7s.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcin75 wrote:

I have zero experience with Pentax lenses, regarding nex-pentax adaptor: does it work as M42 which means that all remains manual ?


I have no experienc of the Nex range, but I'd certainly expect any adapters to be fully manual. There may be some that have a sliding control for aperture on newer lenses that have no aperture ring (DA lenses) but I tend to stick to the older lenses with aperture rings when adapting.
FWIW the PK mount has an identical flange distance to M42, and an adapter is available that fits within the mount so the lens still sits directly on the flange.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject: schneider C-mount? Reply with quote

Schneider 25mm f 0,95 C.mount;
considerable vignetting, no margin for focussing errors, but sharp.

p.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: schneider C-mount? Reply with quote

paulhofseth wrote:
Schneider 25mm f 0,95 C.mount;
considerable vignetting, no margin for focussing errors, but sharp.

p.

This lens vignettes on a M4/3 camera. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note, I love the old lenses and have a bunch of them. However, before you spend your money I would look into the Samyang/Rokinon (Same lens, different brand name) range of manual focus lenses. Excellent quality, priced reasonably, and available in E mount which eliminates the need for adapters.

I recently did a search for some of their Full Frame lenses and these were Amazon's prices:

$399.00 1.4/50
$299.00 2.8/14
$269.00 1.4/85
$549.00 1.4/24
$549.00 1.4/135
$479.00 1.4/35

Note that they have even more APS-C lenses in their line-up that I hadn't captured.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Night shooting lens Reply with quote

Marcin75 wrote:
I am looking for a night photo lens for Nex5, as I am in "collectors" mode for M42 lenses.

Confused and mixed goals in my point of view. I suggest that for night photography you use the camera with the lens that you already own, and develop more your photographic techniques. A lot of people take stunning night shots with smartphones. And in the early twentieth century, good photographers could take night photos with films with sensitivity as low as ISO 10. A Nex-5 can take great photos with ISO 3200, what means that the sensor of a Nex-5 is 320 times more sensitive than a film from the 1920s. If you close the aperture of the lens on your Nex-5 to F32, you will still be in advantage over Erich Salomon with his camera with an Ernostar F2! Even so Erich Salomon could take remarkable pictures like this:



As for the "collector mode", well I do not know what you meant. Maybe it's just the desire to spend money on something.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use speedbooster with a projection lens? I've got pretty fast times using such a combo.
A MEOPTA f1.4/70mm gets a f1.0 lens then for instance. Or a regular M42 f1.4/50mm
gets a f1.0 Wink


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Night shooting lens Reply with quote

Gerald wrote:
Marcin75 wrote:
I am looking for a night photo lens for Nex5, as I am in "collectors" mode for M42 lenses.

Confused and mixed goals in my point of view. I suggest that for night photography you use the camera with the lens that you already own, and develop more your photographic techniques. A lot of people take stunning night shots with smartphones. And in the early twentieth century, good photographers could take night photos with films with sensitivity as low as ISO 10. A Nex-5 can take great photos with ISO 3200, what means that the sensor of a Nex-5 is 320 times more sensitive than a film from the 1920s. If you close the aperture of the lens on your Nex-5 to F32, you will still be in advantage over Erich Salomon with his camera with an Ernostar F2! Even so Erich Salomon could take remarkable pictures like this:



As for the "collector mode", well I do not know what you meant. Maybe it's just the desire to spend money on something.


Gerald, thx Smile. I know. When I am looking the album "New York at night" sometimes I am wondering why some of photos are there as they are far away of what can be seen on the forum. I know that even with kit lenses and right moment and approach You can have a great photo. But what I see in old lenses is sort of vividity, colors and pinch of magic. I dont know why but shots taken with Helios seems to be greater than with kit 16-55. perhaps its the same as with cars old ones gives you unique pleasure despite technology gap. I think that one of important factors is the price, as new e-mount lenses costs north of 800 usd which is around dozen of m42lenses Wink.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
If you're shooting from tripod, thigives you some interesting possibilities, I really liked my Olympus OM 21/3.5 and 50/1.4 for night shooting, bright lights didn't show any coma, my current favourite is the Voigtl�nder 15/4.5 Super Wide Heliar III.
If you really want to shoot hand held, save up for an A7s.


No no tripod, my girlfriend will not stand for another kg in the luggage Wink


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some old lenses handle night lighting better than others, of the suggestions to date the Auto Rikenon ( Porst, Sears etc.) 55mm 1.4 is one of my favourites for night shooting, has a nice glow to it but retains enough sharpness at large apertures.





Both on APSC



On FF.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Night shooting lens Reply with quote

Marcin75 wrote:


I know that even with kit lenses and right moment and approach You can have a great photo. But what I see in old lenses is sort of vividity, colors and pinch of magic. I dont know why but shots taken with Helios seems to be greater than with kit 16-55.


Maybe it is just skill in post-processing. Photography can be deceiving. Not always pictures come from the camera with correct exposure, high contrast, vivid colors, or correct white balance. That was true at the era of photographic film (have you seen how hard Ansel Adams worked on his negatives?), as is now in the digital age. See the example below. The first photo is exactly how it came from the camera. The lighting conditions were difficult: extremely bright sun just behind the main subject, causing great loss of contrast, flare and ghosting. The second picture shows how the colors and the contrast could be reclaimed by post-processing. Post-processing can be magical.







Marcin75 wrote:
I think that one of important factors is the price, as new e-mount lenses costs north of 800 usd which is around dozen of m42lenses Wink.


One thing that should be obvious, but it seems a lot of people pretend to ignore: the more lenses you have, the less you use each of them. I read about a guy who ended up buying more than 100 normal lenses, many of them repeated. You can bet he never used most of the lenses he owns.

I'll tell you something that may be surprising to many people: perhaps it is better to buy just that great e-mount lens for $800 than a dozen cheap M42 lenses for the same price. A lens that cost you little but you never use is the most expensive lens in the world! An expensive lens that you use all the time, and makes you proud of the results, is a long-term cheap lens. Having just a good and expensive lens is better because it allows you to concentrate on shooting. On the contrary, when you have a dozen crap lenses, you will be wondering all the time which is the best lens for the job. If you have 12 lenses you'll be often unhappy and start to believe that happiness is in the 13th lens (that one you have not bought yet), which will bring you the magic that is missing in your photos. If you have 13 lenses, you'll be often unhappy and…


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikkor-S Auto 50mm f/1.4







PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, don't be deterred from your photographic goals and desires.
There is merit (and magic) in the variety of ways to pursue photography. Anyone who thinks it's a simple B&W matter (pun intended), is a fool. Either ignorant, or trying to justify their $$$$ decision as the best and only one.

Your NEX-5 will NOT return brilliant photos at ISO 3200. Anything higher than 1250 and the noise will be unsatisfactory.
Thus your inquiry for a fast night street photography lens, will help yield more keepers than deletes. No amount of post is going to fix a shot that has no usable information, or blurred.

The Schneider-Kreuznach Edixa-Laudar you listed is a fine lens, I have a copy and love it. But its size and build makes it a poor choice for what you want to do. You'll be fumbling with the small rings.

The suggested Tomioka-made 55mm f/1.4 sold under a variety of brands (Sears, Mamiya/Sekor, Rikenon, etc.) is another that I won't recommend for Sony APS-C.
This lens has a flat rear element which produces sensor reflection flare with an a6000. If you only shoot wide open, it won't be noticed, but once stopped down to f/8 or smaller, a green flare is visible a the center whenever there is bright lighting (indirect or direct).

Real experience gains you these insights.

With Sony APS-C, mirrorless, a fast UWA or WA vintage lens becomes a costly proposition. You're better off sticking to E-mount native solutions. The Sigma 19mm f/2.8 worked well as an all around street shooter, even at night in Manhattan.
The other that wasn't listed earlier is the Rokinon/Samyang 12mm f/2.0 for APS-C E-mount. It's manual focus, and about $310. But it's an excellent lens.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use your kit lens(18-55) when you need a wide angle. The OSS will help you get sharp photos with low shutter speed.

A portraits, I will get a Minolta Rokkor MD 50 1,4. Decently sharp @F1.4 and lightweight. If you want to go wider, the Sony E 35/1.8 with OSS will be helpful if you want to do available light portraits. The small flash on your camera will help too.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To whom still have a doubt about the capacity of the Sony Nex-5 to take 'brilliant photos" at ISO 3200, I suggest taking a look at the picture below from the Nex-5 review by dpreview.




EDIT:
I replaced the original picture, which was inconveniently large, by a downscaled version of more reasonable size. Anyway, you can see the original picture here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews_data/sony_nex5/boxshot/sonynex5-iso3200.jpg


Last edited by Gerald on Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gerald,

There's a difference between getting the shot and making the shot. That shot above is not 'brilliant' in my book.
Acceptable is a more accurate. Compare it to the same shots taken at lower ISO's the noise level will drop significantly.
Search somewhat deeper and wider, and owners' experiences will conclude that one will not be happy with low-light results at 3200. Not even 1600.
Cameras have come a long way ISO performance-wise. And my a6000 is incrementally improved over the NEX-5x. But after tens of thousands of shots,
there is a real world limit to what the ISO ceiling is for a clean image for each platform.
Besides getting in focus, achieving a noise free image is my next priority.
I think it's pretty universally accepted that one doesn't shoot at high ISO if you don't have to.

Yes, the OP will get acceptable photos from the NEX-5, even with the native kit lens.
I have done so in the past, when I had no choice and the kit lens was all I had with me.
But the results would've been better if I had more options.

Advising the OP that he's better off 'investing' on one $$$$ native lens instead of chasing the proverbial rabbit down a hole with a collection of old lenses, is not the definitive choice.
Just one option.
And one can surmise he is here posting because he isn't considering dropping $1000 on a Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 E-mount.

Aside:
You're obviously a passionate photographer with experience you'd like to share.
But you took some rather broad assumptions in your statements about others and their approach to this hobby.
How unhappy others are, and equating it to lack of camera time per lens.
Rather condescending and negative, especially odd given that this is a forum dedicated to manual-focus lenses.
Are you drawing a line in the sand and daring the collectors to challenge you?
It seems you are egging for a confrontation. A heated debate seems to ensue whenever those don't agree with you.

Hate to see this thread become the Lens Hood battle. Even when rebutted with validity, you won't accept their merits.
Worse, have moderators lock this thread if it gets out of hand with obnoxious and blatantly rude posts.

Better to agree to disagree, it's all subjective.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Night shooting lens Reply with quote

Gerald wrote:


the more lenses you have, the less you use each of them.



Yes very real.



Gerald wrote:


perhaps it is better to buy just that great e-mount lens for $800 than a dozen cheap M42 lenses for the same price. A lens that cost you little but you never use is the most expensive lens in the world! An expensive lens that you use all the time, and makes you proud of the results, is a long-term cheap lens.




Debatable.