Home
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Newbie questions???
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Newbie questions??? Reply with quote

Giday MF'ers,
Newly joined. Very Happy
Very fresh to M focussing lenses. Please look after me Smile

I've got a few questions:

1) How do you focus MF lens? Confused I am using Canon EOS 30D and I find it very hard to focus because there is no split image view finder.
2) Suggestion on wide angle lenses. I do not see wider than 20mm. Are there wider ones?
3) Is CZJ Flektogon that good? This model of CZJ is quite expensive.

Cheers
Ed


PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you can just focus on sight, which takes some practice.
But you can also buy an "AF-confirm-adapter" for Canon, which will give you a confirmation of focus.

MF lenses under 20mm exist, but are very hard to find...

CZJ has a very good reputation indeed. I think our forum member Orio will confirm that the Flektogons are excellent, he has at least 4 of them Wink

Welcome to the forum!

Tom


PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome aboard.
About focusing, all I can tell you is that it's a hit'n miss job.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see you here! I suggest to buy a chipped adapter (it has focus confirmation feedback beep).

I have almost all kind of CZJ lenses they are good as Nikkor lenses.
Take a look on them at mflenses.com gallery


PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ed, glad you've joined us.

Unfortunately, Canon EOS cameras are not the easiest to focus manually. Canon want to sell their expensive auto-focus lenses, so manual focussing is not high on their priorities. The viewfinder is darker than usual because some of the light entering through the lens is filtered through the main mirror for the auto-focussing sensors, and because the cameras use a penta-mirror in the viewfinder instead of a prism.

The camera can't control the lens aperture with MF lenses, so it's not possible to use Tv mode (shutter priority). You can use Av or M modes but you have to set the lens aperture manually. In Av mode the camera will meter the light and set the shutter speed to suit.

It's best to focus MF lenses with the aperture wide open first, and then stop down the aperture after you've focussed. You can do several things to help get sharp pictures - obviously using a tripod or other support is a big help, particularly in low light conditions. If you have enough light you can stop down the aperture near the minimum and use a slower shutter speed. This increases the depth of field, but you need to be more careful about keeping the camera still. Using a higher ISO value allows a smaller aperture, but image quality suffers sometimes. You can also use the "bracketting" method, where you take several shots of the same subject with slightly different focus settings, in the hope that one of them is perfect. Smile

As Attila mentioned, you can mount MF lenses on a Canon using an EOS adapter with an "Auto-focus chip". The chip fools the camera into thinking you're using an AF lens, and you'll see the red flash and hear a beep when the camera thinks the picture is in focus. It doesn't work properly in low light situations it has difficulty with indistinct subjects. You can also change the frosted focus screen in the viewfinder and fit a type that has a split image for focussing. I find this more useful than the adapter, but many people wouldn't agree. If you want to try either of these we can give lots of help, but try the AF-confirm adapter first.

As for short focal lengths, Orio will tell you all about Flek 20s. There are a few shorter lenses, Vivitar and Tamron both made 17mm lenses for instance. Anything much shorter gets you into fish-eye lenses, for instance the 16mm Zenitar or even the 8mm Peleng.

I hope this is helpful for you
Peter


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, great help.

I have used AF confirm adapter but keeper rate is very low. Must be something wrong. Sad
Generally I am having difficulty focussing wide angle lenses (shorter than 50mm) because objects show small.
I guess I have to keep practice, practice, and more practice.
As Peter suggested I must try "bracketting" method and see how I go.

The most attractive thing for MF for me was the cost of the lenses.
They are cheap as chips ..... except fleks. Sad
Is it worth buying one (20mm) for US$200 ?????
cheers
Ed


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

check some of Orio's posts and the gallery. Short answer seems to be yes (I do not have one)

patrickh


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi Ed,

any in depth answer would require to know more about your photographic habits, like what are your subjects, what kind of things you appreciate in a photograph etc.

With regards to the Fleks, I am the Prince of Fleks Wink no, seriously, they are very good lenses, but are lenses of the past, if you know what I mean. Today's standard for lenses is much sharper than way back then. At the time they were released, the Flektogons appeared like the most sharp of available wideangles. But later releases, like the wideangles by Nikon, Olympus, Leitz, Carl Zeiss raised the standard of sharpness for wide angle lenses.
However, many of more modern wide angles have sacrificed geometrical perfection for a more aggressive approach. Today, almost no one (except for architects and a few amateurs and professionals) values much geometrical fidelity in a wide angle lens. Everyone wants super sharpness and aggressive image for modern urban style. The Flektogons are amongst the most corrected wide angles available. The 4/20, in particular, has practically no geometrical distortion, and if placed properly (with a tripod and a spirit level), will render architectural images that need no correction at all.
So my answer is that if you privilege architecture photography and great linear fidelity, you should go for a Flektogon, if you prefer sharpness and aggressive approach and don't mind much about geometry, you should go for a Nikkor or a Zuiko.

About focusing with manual lenses, the shorter the focal lenght the most difficult, of course. I personally do not focus at all with lenses shorter than 35mm. I just set a distance on the barrel, set an appropriate aperture, and click. Old time zone focusing.
For normal and tele lenses, I have placed a viewfinder enlarger on the 400D, and I have changed focusing screen on the 5D. These helps, together with chipped adaptors, have solved my focusing problems at least most of the times.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

esrods wrote:
Thanks guys, great help.

I have used AF confirm adapter but keeper rate is very low. Must be something wrong. Sad
Generally I am having difficulty focussing wide angle lenses (shorter than 50mm) because objects show small.
I guess I have to keep practice, practice, and more practice.
As Peter suggested I must try "bracketting" method and see how I go.

The most attractive thing for MF for me was the cost of the lenses.
They are cheap as chips ..... except fleks. Sad
Is it worth buying one (20mm) for US$200 ?????
cheers
Ed


Everybody start with cheap Manual Focus lenses, because price is attractive, but the best ones is never cheap except if you compare with AF brothers. I have many MF lens around $400 USD value. Orio has many much more expensive MF lenses. So $200 USD not a high price an excellent wide angle lens like Flekktogon.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

esrod et alii

I started to buy MF lenses for exactly that same reason - economics. It was the only way to get top class lenses at bearable prices. Then I discovered how much more fun it is to think about the shot while taking it - what aperture? what speed? where is the focus? etc Not to mention how much more solid most of these lenses feel. And who cares about looks?

patrickh


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all welcome! Enjoy!

There is some typical development until people find their ways here:

1. You have shot many years ago.
2. After having bought a digital cam (because everybody "needs" one these days), the hobby is revived.
3. After a while, you get your first DSLR (digital Reflex).
4. You first use only AF-lenses.
5. Suddenly (and often accidentally) you discover that you can use MF lenses at your DSLR.
6. You buy cheap MF lenses ("Look at this price!") and you start to like their "personalities".
7. This is moment you get hooked!
8. You start to look for and buy more expensive MF lenses, since you really want to get the highest possible performance.
9. You start to shoot on film again (for different reasons).
10. You are either totally happy or totally bankrupt. Wink

Sometimes certain steps are skipped. But generally every user here is in one of those stages. Wink


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LucisPictor wrote:

10. You are either totally happy or totally bankrupt. Wink


or both

LucisPictor wrote:
Sometimes certain steps are skipped. But generally every user here is in one of those stages. Wink
Razz

Yes indeed. Brilliant diagnosis, Dr. Carsten! Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LucisPictor wrote:
First of all welcome! Enjoy!

There is some typical development until people find their ways here:

1. You have shot many years ago.
2. After having bought a digital cam (because everybody "needs" one these days), the hobby is revived.
3. After a while, you get your first DSLR (digital Reflex).
4. You first use only AF-lenses.
5. Suddenly (and often accidentally) you discover that you can use MF lenses at your DSLR.
6. You buy cheap MF lenses ("Look at this price!") and you start to like their "personalities".
7. This is moment you get hooked!
8. You start to look for and buy more expensive MF lenses, since you really want to get the highest possible performance.
9. You start to shoot on film again (for different reasons).
10. You are either totally happy or totally bankrupt. Wink

Sometimes certain steps are skipped. But generally every user here is in one of those stages. Wink


Wow, uncannily accurate! I'm at stage 7, going on to 8. I've discovered a set of high-quality lenses I lusted after 30 years ago are now as cheap as a cheap thing in Cheapsville, relatively speaking.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farside wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
First of all welcome! Enjoy!

There is some typical development until people find their ways here:

1. You have shot many years ago.
2. After having bought a digital cam (because everybody "needs" one these days), the hobby is revived.
3. After a while, you get your first DSLR (digital Reflex).
4. You first use only AF-lenses.
5. Suddenly (and often accidentally) you discover that you can use MF lenses at your DSLR.
6. You buy cheap MF lenses ("Look at this price!") and you start to like their "personalities".
7. This is moment you get hooked!
8. You start to look for and buy more expensive MF lenses, since you really want to get the highest possible performance.
9. You start to shoot on film again (for different reasons).
10. You are either totally happy or totally bankrupt. Wink

Sometimes certain steps are skipped. But generally every user here is in one of those stages. Wink


Wow, uncannily accurate! I'm at stage 7, going on to 8. I've discovered a set of high-quality lenses I lusted after 30 years ago are now as cheap as a cheap thing in Cheapsville, relatively speaking.


Oh, how I lusted after a Spotmatic! I remember when it was first introduced, 1965 maybe, and I had a Zenit 3M at the time. Then after I bought the Praktica in '69 I used to lust after a Pancolar 1.8/50 because there was picture of one in the manual being used by a pretty girl. Both dreams are satisfied now Very Happy

Brilliant piece of psychological analysis there Carsten. I'm at stage 9, digital is great, but film+scan is much more fun.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterqd wrote:
Brilliant piece of psychological analysis there Carsten...


Actually, that was not difficult. I just tried to remember my steps to stage 9. Wink
Now, I hope that I can prevent bankruptcy and will end up in utter happiness. Very Happy


PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking of bankruptcy, where's my 20 quid Distagon 21.....? Laughing Wink


PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bob955i wrote:
Talking of bankruptcy, where's my 20 quid Distagon 21.....? Laughing Wink


Laughing

Ooops, I sold it to somebody else for 25 Pounds. Sorry, but it was a better offer!

Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks heaps guys,
You guys rock. Very Happy

I enjoyed taking photos with newly acquired MF lenses but I was starting to get sceptical about the whole setup - focussing and the false economy on lens prices. But now, I am completely convinced and think I will stay with MF for a long time. Smile

Patrich - you are on the money - that's exactly what I have experienced.
I started off buying a cheap lens by accident and got myself hooked on challenge of getting things right.
My MF lens number is steadily growing. Wink

LucisPictor, excellent chronology, Like it. Very Happy
I am at #8. Not sure I will go to #9 but surely I will ended up at #10. Crying or Very sad Wink
cheers
Ed


PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile