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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 1654
Location: Ireland
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 Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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Sheeit... I'll take two. 
_________________
Dave
The Lenses of Farside
"The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and
prosperity is no longer socialism. It is, instead, the ambitious,
arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism."
-- Czech President Vaclav Klaus |
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kansalliskala
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Hanko, Finland
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Since I opened the can of pixels here .. the final question:
Which would be better buy: Used 5D or used 1Ds (no "Marks")?
The prices are about the same. 1Ds are obviously older ones and more often come from professional use? |
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2673
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Kansalliskalla
My preference would be the 5D - personally I am not a professional photog (far far from it) and I suspect I would not even know what half the facilities on the machine were for. I also believe the age difference in terms of technology (and particularly internal software from Canon) would give as good picture quality or better on the 5D. Just my 10c or minieuros.
patrickh
_________________
DSLR: Nikon D70 Nikon D200 Canon 40D
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, Nikkor 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 3004.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Kiron 28/2 Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Flektogon 35/2.4, Curtagon 35/4, Arsat 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro,Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Industar 50/3.5, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Jupiter 135/4, Jupiter 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8 Jupiter 200/4
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8 |
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Athiril
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Brunswick Heads, NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| patrickh wrote: | Nikon seems to be driving them into panic mode. Of course, having just bought the 40D I am furious.
@Orio
I suspect that when the dust settles the extra pixels will not translate into better IQ. Hara kiri is no longer fashionable - and that's what they seem to be doing.
patrickh |
I prefer my 30D to a 450D, the xxxD camerasss are toys in comparison, they even feel like toys holding them.. |
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Athiril
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Brunswick Heads, NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| kansalliskala wrote: | Since I opened the can of pixels here .. the final question:
Which would be better buy: Used 5D or used 1Ds (no "Marks")?
The prices are about the same. 1Ds are obviously older ones and more often come from professional use? |
Id go for the 5D for its colour, marvelous for landscapes. |
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Athiril
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Brunswick Heads, NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Farside wrote: | | patrickh wrote: | | Customer loyalty is well demonstrated by the ease with which all those very expensive FD lenses are used. It's amazing to me that it is easier to mount a nikkor than a canon on a canon body! |
Indeed. If I'd been a Canon owner back then I'd have been royally pee'd off and probably never bought Canon again. Loyalty cuts both ways, as Nikon and Pentax have demonstrated with some measure of backwards compatibility, and it's ironic that the first decent SLR I owned was a Nikon - if I'd remained a Nikon owner I'd have made the transition to digital quite seamlessly.
After the Nikon period I had two OM1s in the next couple of decades and was quite happy with them. It's only that Oly were very slow to bring out half-decent dSLRs that made me look at a used Canon, else I'd have bought another Oly with backwards compatibility via adapters.
The saving grace of the EOS mount is its register distance and throat size, enabling most makes of lenses to fit. Luckily I now find myself in a situation where I'm able to change camera makers to a body that offers me what I need, complying with my long-standing camera-buying policy - never buy new. |
Personally I think what Canon did with the FD to EF mount was the right move, we can use new EF lenses on Canon EOS film SLRs, isn't it the only solution for IS on film as well?
Plus the film EOS mount is the same mount on Canon 35mm digital SLRs, Nikkor is differnet, F mount, which just happens to allow to be mounted on Nikon digital SLR, missing is exposure metering in aperture priority on a lot of Nikon digital SLRs.
If I had old Nikkor lenses, I'd still choose Canon, any new lenses I got would work on a Canon EOS film and digital SLRs, the Nikkor lenses would work with exposure metering on all cameras, plus as I had previously mentioned, IS on the both the digital and canon film body |
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 1654
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
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You miss the point. The way Canon left all their customers high and dry was disgraceful. It would have been assuaged a bit if they'd offered the converter to the general base of FD owners, not just a few professionals - and if they'd done that the unit price would have been far lower too.
It didn't affect me directly at the time, so I can take an objective view on it.
_________________
Dave
The Lenses of Farside
"The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and
prosperity is no longer socialism. It is, instead, the ambitious,
arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism."
-- Czech President Vaclav Klaus |
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Athiril
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Brunswick Heads, NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't miss it, I just think it was a necessity, I thought it was a good technical call to increase the registration distance, while still being comparitively short to other 35mm mounts.
In any case, I really enjoy my backwards compataibility with film cameras and Canon digital EF lenses, even though im getting rid of my last EF lens ;P (50mm f/1. , will def be getting a few more though in the future.
edit: in any case was there any reason for people to upgrade from a Canon FD body to EOS body? (other than for professionals integrated AF, fast shooting speed).
I mean if you have good lenses, and good film, do you suddenly need to change your 35mm body? |
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 1654
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Athiril wrote: | I didn't miss it, I just think it was a necessity, I thought it was a good technical call to increase the registration distance, while still being comparitively short to other 35mm mounts.
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I can see the technical point - the FD throat was a bit narrow for the new generation of electrical contacts, but other makers managed to fit them in.
By widening the throat they also improved the strength of the base, which would have been important for the behemoth lenses coming up.
As I said, though - the way they just dumped on their previous buyers was not acceptable.
| Quote: |
edit: in any case was there any reason for people to upgrade from a Canon FD body to EOS body? (other than for professionals integrated AF, fast shooting speed).
I mean if you have good lenses, and good film, do you suddenly need to change your 35mm body? |
There certainly was good reason to change upwards, as many people did and do. The amateur and semi-pro users drive the market by their disposable income purchases. What Canon failed to appreciate was that thousands of folk who'd recently bought into the old system and had planned to upgrade as time went on found that they'd effectively wasted their money and been shat upon well and truly. As I said previously, if Canon gave a crap about their customers they would have offered a reasonably priced good-quality converter to take the sting out of it.
I heard several Canon owners complain bitterly at the time and a few said they would never buy another Canon. I know a couple of them did buy Nikon after that and one or two went OM when it came time to change. Another factor, of course, was the sudden depreciation in the value of their camera and glass, it now being an orphaned system.
The other makers learned from this debacle, imo and have been careful to not piss people off too much. You only get one chance to get it right in this kind of market and companies who show a blatant disregard for their customers generate bad feeling that lasts and lasts.
I think Canon themselves learned a lot from the backlash - and they've not done anything remotely as stupid since.
_________________
Dave
The Lenses of Farside
"The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and
prosperity is no longer socialism. It is, instead, the ambitious,
arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism."
-- Czech President Vaclav Klaus |
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1303
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Farside wrote: | ...
I can see the technical point - the FD throat was a bit narrow for the new generation of electrical contacts, but other makers managed to fit them in.
... |
Yes, may be in the middle of the '80 , the technology wouldn't allow to insers a AF motor in a lens with a diameter like the FD lenses had. So the solution was a different mount , so it has bord the widest camera mount, the EF. Its just a supposition.
Motors for AF insertet in the lens were introduced my other makers more later, after the technology evolved.
The only thing I don't like about Nikon is the fact that they didn't want to make it capable for the entry level cameras to measure the light with manual lenses on (D40->D80). Otherwise its ok.
The most compatible mount with older lenses and cameras is the K Pentax bayonet.
_________________
Zenit E , Helios-44 58mm f:2.0 , Tair-11A 135mm f:2.8, Jupiter-9 85mm f:2.0
Porst Reflex TL , Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f:2.4 , Pentacon 50mm f:1.8 , Porst MC 135mm f:2.8
Ricoh XR7, Ricoh KR10, Petri GX-1 , Chinon MC 28mm f:2.8 , Varexon EEK 35mm f:2.8 , smc Pentax-M 50mm f:1.7, Ricoh 50mm f:1.7 , Soligor T 135mm f:2.8 , Chinon MC 200mm f:3.3
Pentax K100D , smc Pentax-DA 18-55 , smc Pentax-FA 80-320 |
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Athiril
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Brunswick Heads, NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| montecarlo wrote: | | Farside wrote: | ...
I can see the technical point - the FD throat was a bit narrow for the new generation of electrical contacts, but other makers managed to fit them in.
... |
Yes, may be in the middle of the '80 , the technology wouldn't allow to insers a AF motor in a lens with a diameter like the FD lenses had. So the solution was a different mount , so it has bord the widest camera mount, the EF. Its just a supposition.
Motors for AF insertet in the lens were introduced my other makers more later, after the technology evolved.
The only thing I don't like about Nikon is the fact that they didn't want to make it capable for the entry level cameras to measure the light with manual lenses on (D40->D80). Otherwise its ok.
The most compatible mount with older lenses and cameras is the K Pentax bayonet. |
most compatible is pentax K? but I can mount Pentax K lenses on my 30D with this adapter with infinite focus |
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1303
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Athiril wrote: | | montecarlo wrote: | | Farside wrote: | ...
I can see the technical point - the FD throat was a bit narrow for the new generation of electrical contacts, but other makers managed to fit them in.
... |
Yes, may be in the middle of the '80 , the technology wouldn't allow to insers a AF motor in a lens with a diameter like the FD lenses had. So the solution was a different mount , so it has bord the widest camera mount, the EF. Its just a supposition.
Motors for AF insertet in the lens were introduced my other makers more later, after the technology evolved.
The only thing I don't like about Nikon is the fact that they didn't want to make it capable for the entry level cameras to measure the light with manual lenses on (D40->D80). Otherwise its ok.
The most compatible mount with older lenses and cameras is the K Pentax bayonet. |
most compatible is pentax K? but I can mount Pentax K lenses on my 30D with this adapter with infinite focus |
I ment compatible by construction (without an adapter). You can mount the first K Pentax mount lens ever made on the latest K Pentax dSLR (K20D) and use it in M mode, having focus confirmation and metering. (Almost) the same is with the lenses. Unfortunately Pentax get rid of the aperture ring and those lenses can not be used on K pentax (only KA Pentax and newer). Otherwise, you could use a FA-D smc Pentax 100mm f:2.8 macro lens ( http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/Pentax%20Lens%20Tests/48-pentax/129-pentax-smc-d-fa-100mm-f28-macro-review--test-report ) (or another K Pentax lens AF or MF with aperture ring) on an old Pentax K1000 without any problem.
Here is a table: http://www.mosphotos.com/PentaxLensCompatibility.html
_________________
Zenit E , Helios-44 58mm f:2.0 , Tair-11A 135mm f:2.8, Jupiter-9 85mm f:2.0
Porst Reflex TL , Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f:2.4 , Pentacon 50mm f:1.8 , Porst MC 135mm f:2.8
Ricoh XR7, Ricoh KR10, Petri GX-1 , Chinon MC 28mm f:2.8 , Varexon EEK 35mm f:2.8 , smc Pentax-M 50mm f:1.7, Ricoh 50mm f:1.7 , Soligor T 135mm f:2.8 , Chinon MC 200mm f:3.3
Pentax K100D , smc Pentax-DA 18-55 , smc Pentax-FA 80-320 |
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1303
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Here is the 450D's review :
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos450d/page34.asp
The best feature I would say it is the bigger viewfinder (than the previous models).
_________________
Zenit E , Helios-44 58mm f:2.0 , Tair-11A 135mm f:2.8, Jupiter-9 85mm f:2.0
Porst Reflex TL , Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f:2.4 , Pentacon 50mm f:1.8 , Porst MC 135mm f:2.8
Ricoh XR7, Ricoh KR10, Petri GX-1 , Chinon MC 28mm f:2.8 , Varexon EEK 35mm f:2.8 , smc Pentax-M 50mm f:1.7, Ricoh 50mm f:1.7 , Soligor T 135mm f:2.8 , Chinon MC 200mm f:3.3
Pentax K100D , smc Pentax-DA 18-55 , smc Pentax-FA 80-320 |
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Thirrouard
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Paris
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard_D wrote: | | patrickh wrote: | Nikon seems to be driving them into panic mode. Of course, having just bought the 40D I am furious.
@Orio
I suspect that when the dust settles the extra pixels will not translate into better IQ. Hara kiri is no longer fashionable - and that's what they seem to be doing.
patrickh |
It's taken Nikon a few years (20ish  ) to start putting Canon under serious pressure since Nikon took there eye of the ball with AF development and consumer pricing, but with the D40/X at the base and the D3 at the top Nikon seem to be slowly getting there. |
I don't understand your point....
The 40D is 10x better than the 450D, and it's the same price!
There is more MP in the 450D but look at any test: the 40D have a far superior image quality!
And more over, the 40D have a brighter viewfinder, essential for MF, the xxxD serie always use cheap darker viewfinder...
eventhough the viewfinder seemed to improve in the 450D over the 400D, you will never get what you have on the 40D.
And anyway I just hate how small and hard to use the xxxD serie is...
If I had to choose between a 10D and a 450D, I might choose the 10D honestly!
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Thierry Brouard, Thirrouard Koa!
www.THIRROUARD.com |
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1303
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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new mini Canon http://www.dpreview.com/news/0806/08061002Canon1000D.asp
_________________
Zenit E , Helios-44 58mm f:2.0 , Tair-11A 135mm f:2.8, Jupiter-9 85mm f:2.0
Porst Reflex TL , Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f:2.4 , Pentacon 50mm f:1.8 , Porst MC 135mm f:2.8
Ricoh XR7, Ricoh KR10, Petri GX-1 , Chinon MC 28mm f:2.8 , Varexon EEK 35mm f:2.8 , smc Pentax-M 50mm f:1.7, Ricoh 50mm f:1.7 , Soligor T 135mm f:2.8 , Chinon MC 200mm f:3.3
Pentax K100D , smc Pentax-DA 18-55 , smc Pentax-FA 80-320 |
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