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My Two Vegas - Images to Evaluate Lens Characteristics
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:57 am    Post subject: My Two Vegas - Images to Evaluate Lens Characteristics Reply with quote

I'll use this thread to try to evaluate two lenses that I have. The Vega 12B 90/2.8 and the Vega 26B 120/2.8, both in Pentacon 6 mounts, adapted to fit Pentax 645.

This first image is from the 90/2.8. This is a pristine little basin and meadow that is formed at sub-alpine elevations as "openings" in the forst of Pacific Silver Firs and Alaska Yellow Cedars. The open areas are formed from heavy snows gaining a foothold each winter with enough depth to keep trees from growing inside a certain periphery.

This image is early in the Spring at these elevations, which is usually about the first week of July. I've visited this hidden meadow often simply because every year I am stunned by the beauty of the grasses first, and then later in July and August by the proliferation of wildflowers that come up within the drying of the ground.

This is truly untrammeled by man. It is as natural as any place on Earth because of the non-visitation of man's possible destruction. I am EXCEEDINGLY careful in this fragile environment, although I doubt that my presence results in as much effect as say, the elk and deer and bears that frequent these places.

I have found examples of these out-of-the-way little meadows through simply "running into them" when exploring over the years; thus I have had the reward of being able to visit and know that no one else will be present there. A place of rewarding quiet and to contemplate the natural world.

Here is an image with the Vega 12B and Provia. As indicated in an earlier thread, Provia is not as saturated as Velvia, and so renders these already "naturally saturated" grasses in true colors.

The Vega produces fine landscapes, as well as nice semi-macro shots with its capability of close focus. It is puzzling to me why this lens does not have much respect. Perhaps I got a "good" one? A lens hood is almost a requirement with this uncoated lens. In this case, I used a hat to act as a shade.

Chikamin Basin Pocket Meadow

Vega 12B 90/2.8
Pentax 645
Fuji Provia 100
f:16 @ 1/60th second



Last edited by Laurence on Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:59 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a lovely composition - you really know how to use the square format.

From the thread title I was dreading shots of Neon signs Wink


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You live in Paradiseland, Laurence!
I love the composition, very effective with the path of the stream.

It's great to know that such places still exist, and that people like you still takes care about them.
-


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laurence

The Vega samples I have seen indicate that this is a much undervalued lens marque. I have been using P6 lenses on my D200 nikon and am enjoying the rather different feel the pictures have. It's a challenge to get to know them. Your pictures always make me want to rush out and get whatever lens you are using - but that's foolish because so much of the quality is in the composition and care of the shoot that you bring. Thanks again for this sample and I am looking forward to the next one - the 120


patrickh


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Richard, Orio, and patrick!

That's a lovely composition - you really know how to use the square format. From the thread title I was dreading shots of Neon signs

No neon in that particular part of the world! Haha! While it's not the square format, the little stream does lend itself to the composition. Basically, all I had to do was point and shoot.

The Vega samples I have seen indicate that this is a much undervalued lens marque. I have been using P6 lenses on my D200 nikon and am enjoying the rather different feel the pictures have. It's a challenge to get to know them. Your pictures always make me want to rush out and get whatever lens you are using - but that's foolish because so much of the quality is in the composition and care of the shoot that you bring. Thanks again for this sample and I am looking forward to the next one - the 120

I truly feel the same about undervalued. When I look at the 90/2.8 it even LOOKS rough. No coating visible, just clear glass - the inscribed lettering is crooked - the overall feel of the focusing ring is "rough"...but it has its own characteristics. One of which is that it seems to render greens in a sort of dreamy pastel hue. It's almost like with the grasses, it's "sharp but not sharp" if that makes any sense.

But then, when I shoot something close up, the sharpness is quite evident. I know the corners will never come near a high-end glass for clarity, but the overall lens is a big surprise. I would hesitate to get rid of it, especially at the ridiculous low prices.

I tried once to set up a "test pattern" type of test, but my results didn't work very well. Perhaps I was lacking the preciseness it calls for. So...I just gave up on it, because of the amount of time I would have had to devote to a decent testing paradigm. I just try to take images and compare them "overall" -- which is maybe as good as any.

I'll submit some closer images with the 90/2.8, as well as some with the 120/2.8, just as soon as I get a work break here.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
You live in Paradiseland, Laurence!
I love the composition, very effective with the path of the stream.

It's great to know that such places still exist, and that people like you still takes care about them.
-


Interesting about the stream, Orio. It is more or less the true "headwaters" of a creek named Chikamin Creek. The creek rises slowly enough to the subalpine heights that fish are abel to negotiate the series of falls that lead to this pristine "spawning ground".

The little stream was FULL of fingerling trout, and when you stepped (carefully) on the gravels alongside the stream, the fish would take off with a rush of sound! Pretty cool!

And, it was no WONDER that there is an Osprey that has a nest nearby! Lots of fish and salamanders and frogs, depending on the season! A gourmet's delight.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laurence wrote:

I tried once to set up a "test pattern" type of test, but my results didn't work very well.


I much prefer lenses to be compared "on the field" in real photographs, because real photographs are what I buy lenses for. I don't buy lenses to photograph rulers or newspaper pages Laughing
And, if I want to see the specs of a lens, there's always the MTF tests which are surely done more scientifically than what we as simple users could achieve.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laurence wrote:

The little stream was FULL of fingerling trout, and when you stepped (carefully) on the gravels alongside the stream, the fish would take off with a rush of sound! Pretty cool!


wow... I'd need some of that paradise now.
Thanks for keeping us posted with these images and stories. I appreciate them very much.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:12 am    Post subject: Vega 12B 90/2.8 Reply with quote

Here are a couple of scans from the 90/2.8 again.

This first scan shows some decent bokeh. I guess you would call it reverse bokeh since the foreground is out of focus? Very Happy

This was at the closest focusing distance of about 0.6 meters. Actually, I think it's more like 0.5 meters, because the last "mark" on the focusing ring is 0.6, but the ring goes a little farther than that.

Focus was directly on the little yellow stamen. Depth of field was extremely shallow.

My opinion:
Bokeh = acceptable, nothing to crow about, but good.
Sharpness at focal point = very good
Color rendition with Provia = excellent, even the old leaves showed true to their natural color - not saturated.

Crocus

Vega 12B 90/2.8
f:2.8 wide open @ 1/500
Fuji Provia



PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually like this background bokeh. It has something pictorial. But I reckon that with highlight this kind of bokeh is probably going to give some trouble.

Foreground bokeh is usually better than background bokeh, in all lenses. This because the curve from in-focus to out-of-focus is steeper towards camera than it is towards infinite.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the second scan of the Vega 12B 90/2.8.

This was to see how the "macro" capabilities would look, with extension tubes. This particular shot used two tubes - the 35mm and the 11mm, for a total of 46mm of tube extension, or a little better than 1:2.

The bokeh is almost "outstanding", but I'll call it a "solid excellent". The sharpness at the focal point of the stamens is also solid excellent to me.

My opinion:
Bokeh = excellent
Sharpness at focal point = excellent +
Color rendition with Provia = very good

Crocus 2

Vega 12B 90/2.8
f:2.8 wide open @ 1/250



PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
I actually like this background bokeh. It has something pictorial. But I reckon that with highlight this kind of bokeh is probably going to give some trouble.

Foreground bokeh is usually better than background bokeh, in all lenses. This because the curve from in-focus to out-of-focus is steeper towards camera than it is towards infinite.


I'll try to find one with strong highlights, Orio. Thanks for the feedback.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, beautiful bokeh without doubt!


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
Yes, beautiful bokeh without doubt!


Yes, seems nice to me too Orio.

Here is the one I was thinking of (the Madrona tree bark), with the strong background highlights. You were right, the strong light sources (in this case, the sun shining through holes in the foliage) are not outstanding.

http://forum.mflenses.com/medium-format-images-olympic-mountains-t4752,start,15.html

However, I've seen worse! I would call the bokeh in those highlights "moderately interesting". Cool

All in all, I won't throw this lens away yet.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laurence wrote:

However, I've seen worse!


Definitely! It is not bad at all. There is no bright rim to the highlights. This makes for a beautiful highlight bokeh in most cases. And it will even look better if you could under expose the image by half stop.
Actually, it seems to me that all these Vega 9 images are a bit on the bright side. I think colours and detail would stand out better if the image was slightly denser.

Laurence wrote:
All in all, I won't throw this lens away yet.

Absolutely not! It's a keeper. I'll be getting one myself when the occasion arises.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:57 am    Post subject: Vega28B 120/2.8 Reply with quote

On to the Vega 28B 120/2.8. This Zeiss clone is an outstanding lens (to me, anyway).

You can go to the net and search for this lens and there are a lot of opinions that it meets or exceeds the Zeiss Biotar 120/2.8. All a matter of personal opinion, of course.

I indicated in an earlier post that I felt good about this lens right out of the shipping box. Heavy, solid, massive, smooth, petite for its focal length. Good looking coated glass.
So, that's about all I can say, as I am no expert otherwise. Look at the upper left corner for a sort of indicator of corner sharpness. Not bad at all!



These can be found in excellent condition for less than $75 at times.

Pollen Rafts, Lost River Watershed

Vega 28B 120/2.8
F:8, 1/125th
Fuji Reala 100



PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a macro with the 120.2.8. Good subject sharpness. In fact, excellent here. The bokeh is sort of odd - not displeasing, but a bit of that "swirl" that some people love and others don't. Laughing If you look in the upper middle part of the image, where the green fronds "melt" into the reddish background, you can see that the "fade" is, to me, outstanding.

Orio, you had mentioned "highlighted rims" on the circle spectra in the background bokeh. Those light sources in the upper left do show that; however, I don't think it is ugly - perhaps like the 90/2.8, it is "moderately interesting"?

This was with three extension tubes, and somewhere between 1:2 and 1:1. The blade of moss is about 1/2 inch long, and the little moss branchlets are probably about 1/8 inch. This is quite close, almost touching the moss.

Hyperium Moss Frond - Bigleaf Maple Trunk

Vega 28B 120/2.8
Exposure unrecorded (possibly f:5.6 and 1/60th)
Fuji Velvia

Again, excellent to outstanding corner sharpness, see upper right, as well as the in-focus edge areas down the right side of frame. No flare in any image I've yet taken.



PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Laurence for sharing these outstanding pictures of the beautiful nature around you. The pictures look awesome on my screen and I guess they look even better printed big on your walls .

Laurence wrote:
Here's a macro with the 120.2.8. Good subject sharpness. In fact, excellent here. The bokeh is sort of odd - not displeasing, but a bit of that "swirl" that some people love and others don't. Laughing If you look in the upper middle part of the image, where the green fronds "melt" into the reddish background, you can see that the "fade" is, to me, outstanding.


I love the bokeh of this lens. The way the background just melts away is amazing.

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you laurence - your contributions are magnificent. I just wish you didn't put ideas into my head. I have to be calm about my purchasing right now. BUT those are two lovely looking lenses - and I am just begining to feel comfortable using the medium format lenses...


patrickh


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbazz and Patrick: Thanks for your comments. All comments are a contribution to our knowledge, and I am grateful to see you join in on these evaluations of the lenses.

I'll share your opinion about the bokeh of both lenses: The 90/2.8 = pretty good; the 120/2.8 = excellent.

Abbazz: Unfortunately, I don't have the means ($$$) to put many images up on my walls, but it's still fun to review them on the computer.

I took another box out of the closet and found a few more images from the two lenses. Rather than take up all of Attila's bandwidth, and bore you in the process, I'll just post two more here and call it good. These are just representations anyway, and are hopefully showing at least SOME of the characteristics of the lenses.

This image is from the Vega 28B 120.2.8. Taken behind my home in the beaver ponds that inundate the old glacial depressions. I am lucky that behind my home I can hike for miles if I wish, through a whole area of linked beaver ponds.

I like this image for it sense of "topsy-turvy" reflection! It is difficult to find the waterline, as all the elements seem to coalesce with a lot of symmetry! That's part of the fun though!

Topsy Turvy at the Beaver Ponds #3

Vega 28B 120/2.8
f:8, 1/60th (with polarizer)
Fuji Velvia 100F



----------------------------------------------

And the Vega 12B 90/2.8. Back to the isolated meadow, and back to the rather "signature" color rendition of the Vega 12B - almost a pasteline countenance to the greens, and a good match for using the more natural coloration of the Fuji Provia 100.

I liked this because the log acts as a "natural planterbox", and gave the scene a sort of formality. Laughing

Edge sharpness here was excellent, in my opinion. Bokeh was pleasant, not outstanding...but pleasant enough.

Alaska Yellow Cedar - Natural Planter Box

Vega 12B 90/2.8
exposure unrecorded
Fuji Provia 100



PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Laurence, excellent images as usual. The last one is fantastic!

Both lenses deliver detail abundantly, with great colour density.
I read that you rate the bokeh of the 120 as better than that of the 90 - based on the images that you posted, for me is the contrary: I prefer the bokeh of the 90, which seems smoother to me, in spite of fact that the 120 has a longer focal lenght (a factor which usually accounts for smoother bokeh).

My conclusion is that both lenses are keepers - but you already know that Wink
Should I express a personal preferences, based on the images that you posted, I'd say that I would like to have both lenses (something that will likely happen sooner or later), but having to choose which one to buy first, it would be the 90.

-


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superb images as always Mr. "master of nature". I have also great experience with Vega-90 f2.8 I also rated above than CZJ Biometar 80mm f2.8.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovely shots.

The 'swirl' bokeh always reminds me of oil pastels.

My Nikkor 135/3.5 has this type whilst my Tair 35/2.8 has a more diffuse almost drier style that reminds me more of chalk pastels. It's these sort of details that givelenses a unique character.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Utterly cracking pics, Laurence.
I've been thinking of a Vega 12B for a while - this selection of shots with that and the 28B are something else.