My position as administrator

[Orio]

I think it is opportune that I make my views public about the way I conceive my role of administrator in this forum.

One of the things I came to quickly hate in Internet forums, is moderation.

I took part to forums and news groups, where your messages have to be approved by someone else, before they have the right to appear and be visible.
I find this a monstrous aberration .

I always fought against that which I consider a rape of the human right of expression. I fought battles to unmoderate existing forums and create non moderated ones. I often lost, because like with all human things, people who have "the power" like to exercise it - over others.

Who am I? I am a libertarian. My ideology is that freedom is sacred, and its limits are the freedom of the other people only.
I do not believe in any limitation of freedom that is different from the above, I consider that an abuse.

When Attila asked me to administrate this forum, one of the reasons why I accepted (beyond my obvious G.A.S.), is that it was a great occasion to realize what I always dreamed about: a forum where a moderation exists to avoid that a moderation is applied. An "anti-moderation moderator", if you accept the paradox.
This is how I perceive my role here. As you know, I am not moderator here - others are - I am administrator. I am happy of the nominal difference.

I have recently been criticized (privately) being told "you should have censored/banned this or that because what he wrote means that..."
Well, just to make it clear: I will never do that. So don't even ask. I do not judge anyone by his intentions. Hundreds of years of history and thousands of thousands of men have died just to avoid the pest of the judgement of intentions.

The only case where I will consider to apply a restriction, is the case of personal harassment. When a member attacks another member continously and pretextually. Because this, is exactly a case of freedom that interferes with the freedom of someone else.

Concepts, ideas, thoughts, do not belong to the category of personal harassment, and do not represent an interference with the freedom of anyone. Therefore, do not ask me to censor or ban people for their ideas, because I never will.

On the contrary, I find that asking to censor or ban someone because of his ideas or thoughts, is an actual interference with the freedom of other members.

I expect that when discussions arise, the members of this group are mature enough to accept a civil confrontation, even on hard ideological terms, but always with the mutual personal respect, without invoking censorship when they read something that they don't like or approve.

I expect the members of this group to be able to understand that in the world there are different opinions and that nobody owns the Truth, provided that a univocal truth exists when human things are concerned (which is in my opinion highly disputable).

I know that this is a difficult challenge. It is much, much easier to conduct a group in the dictator's way. Like, setting a mood for everyone: "everyone who takes part to this group must be happy and post positive messages. Negative mood is not accepted" - do you think it's a joke? Think again, because it has happened, in another photography group very similar in subject to this one. One person was publicly reproached by the owner/moderator because his bitter messages, due to having lost his work and being unemployed, disturbed the gay serenity of the place...

Nice eh? Nice being moderators like that. Who cares if a friend is unemployed and suffers? He must not interfere with the happy smiles of the group.

Not just that. I was personally refused my money donation to that group, because the owner/moderator thought to have "perceived negative undertones in my recent messages".

As you can see, the frontiers of judgement of intentions can be always pushed forward, towards the unimaginable.
It would be to laugh about, if it wasn't so depressing, to think that people like that exist.

It is much easier to take a forum on the lead and censor messages, cut unpleasing parts, shut up people here and there - and finally arrive to the perfectly quiet and happy forum - where everyone is forced to think the same for the sake of not disturbing.

Do you like the above picture? Do you think that it's better to have a Duce who leads a forum dictatorially, as the price for being in a quiet reassuring place?

If yes, then I'm afraid this is not the forum for you - at least, not until I am the administrator.

Here, until I am administrator, nobody is forced to be happy, nobody is forced to be silent about things he would like to talk about or be lying about things he thinks are not true.

This also means that everyone on this forum is called to his responsibility more than in other typical forums.

Everyone is singularily responsible of what he writes and of the pictures he publishes.
This is always true, but it is even more true in this forum, because the administrator (me) refuses to keep the members on the lead.

If you like, you can call this forum an experiment with extreme democracy.
I mean the true democracy, not the democracy that your politicians call as such, which is a lie. This is the real democracy because it starts from the bottom: from everyone of us, individually. From our sense of responsibility and from our ability to relationate with the others. Individually.

So do not rely on the administrator like the daddy who comes in and decides which of the children must have the bigger ice cream.

This is a forum for adult people, where adult means of adult mind. If you have ideas and thoughts, it depends on you to defend them. Do not expect others or the administrator to do it. The candy man's gone, and daddy too. You are adults and responsible, stand on your own legs. Be men, not crying histerical children. I will only be the guarantee that everyone in the group is given the same basic rights of speech and expression. And as long as I am administrator here, everyone will. Everyone. No exceptions

This is "my way". If you don't like this way, we can have a poll, and if the majority of the people thinks that you need a dictatorial administration, who bans and censors at his will for the sake of being in eternal dreamland, I will simply give back my office in the hands of Attila. I can not be that kind of moderator, because it is against every fundamental principle I always believed in in my life.

Orio.
-
_________________
_
ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano

Main Tools:
LENSES: Russian, Zeiss, Leitz, old Nikkors.
DSLR: Canon 5D, 400D. SLR: Voigtländer Bessaflex TM, Nikon FM2, Canon 50E, Contax 167MT.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net

"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
_

[Attila]

Thank you Orio to make it clear here everybody has right to tell his/her opinion without censorship.
_________________

Olympus E-1,Nikon FA,Pentax MX,Praktica VLC3,Olympus-OM2N,Yashica Eletro 35 GN,Exakta Varex IIb,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Zeiss Jena:Flektogon 2.8/20mm,4/25mm,2.4/35,2.8/65mm,4.5/4cm Tessar
Pancolar 1.4/55mm,1.8/50mm,1.8/80mm,Tessar 2.8/50mm,Biotar 2/58mm,1.5/75mm,1.5/7,5cm
Carl Zeiss: Sonnar 2.8/135,2.8/180mm,Tessar 4/135mm
Nikon: 3.5/20mm,2.8/28mm,1.4/35mm,1.4/50mm,1.2/50mm,2/50mm,1.8/105mm,2.5/105mm,2.8/180mm,4/200mm macro,4.5/300mm
Pentax: Pentax 1.2/50mm,1.8/85mm,4/200mm
Helios: Helios-40 1.5/8,5cm,Helios-44-1 2/58mm,Helios-44-2 2/58mm
Olympus OM: 3.5/18mm,3.5/21mm,1.4/50mm,3.5/55mm macro,2.8/135mm,2/90mm macro,35-70mm,60-250mm
Meyer: 4.5/35mm Primagon,Primoplan 1.9/58mm,1.9/75mm,2.8/100mm,Orestegor 2.8/135mm,4.5/40 Helioplan

[Orio]

I think that a clarification was needed after the recent threads.

I can not be, and do not want to be, a man for all seasons. I will give back the office if the majority of people wants a different administrator.
I have my idea of what a free forum should be and I am trying to apply it. Others may wish for a different type of administrator, so it's important that I explain what is my vision. Also because I don't want to be mistaken as an administrator who "does not care". My very limited number of actions has a reason, and responds to a phylosophy. it is a choice, and it follows precise guidelines.

-
_________________
_
ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano

Main Tools:
LENSES: Russian, Zeiss, Leitz, old Nikkors.
DSLR: Canon 5D, 400D. SLR: Voigtländer Bessaflex TM, Nikon FM2, Canon 50E, Contax 167MT.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net

"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
_

[Katastrofo]

*Standing up, clapping* Thank you, thank you, oh Imperator! And now
I think I'll have the larger of the two ice creams...

Orio, I always thought you were a libertine, not a libertarian.

On a serious note, I'm glad you posted your philosophy.

[patrickh]

Applause


patrickh
_________________
DSLR: Nikon D70 Nikon D200 Canon 40D
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, Nikkor 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 3004.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Kiron 28/2 Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Flektogon 35/2.4, Curtagon 35/4, Arsat 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro,Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Industar 50/3.5, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Jupiter 135/4, Jupiter 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8 Jupiter 200/4
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8

[Jesito]

Orio, thanks for your statement.
Best regards,
Jes.
_________________
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 18-200, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro (Adaptall)
Fixed CZJ Planar 50mm 1.7, Helios 44-2, Cosinon 28mm, CZJ Sonnar 135, Industar-61, Jupiter-9, Industar-50, CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8
DSLR Canon 350D, Pentax K10D
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Agfa Isolette II, Mamiya 645E, Petri 6x45, Nettar
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX I, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30, EXA500, EXA 1A
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Olympus 35RC, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret LR
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Minox 35 ML
Compact Digital Caplio GX100, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot 520


Life is that boring wasted time in between two pictures

[LucisPictor]

I'd like to agree.

My philosophy as a moderator is very similar.
I try to "moderate" the threads if they go too far, i.e. if personal offence is applied or if a certain thread can mean any harm for the reputation of the whole board.

But since I cannot watch all threads all the time, I am happy to get messages if members think that something is not right. So please, if you fell abused or if you think that there is something is off kilter, please contact me and I will see what we can do.

This is the role of a moderator, as I define it.

Would that be OK with you?
_________________
"Schnäppchenjäger" | "KAPCTEH" | "Karusutenu" | "Carsten" | T-shirt?
Cams in use: EOS 40D, EOS 350D, EOS500, Spotmatic SPII, Yashica-24, EXA I & 1c, Zenit EM; Oly 35RC,Minolta Hi-Matic E & F, Ricoh 500RF, Yashica Electro 35 GS, FED-3b and some others...
Lenses in use: Asahi Pentax: 2.8/28;3.5/35;1.4/50;1.7/50;2.8/105;28-80 | Canon (AF):1.8/50;17-85;75-300 | Former GDR: Pentacon 3.5/30; Pentaflex 1.8/50; CZJ 2.8/50; CZJ 4/135; Pentacon 4/200 | Fujinon: 43-75 | Hanimex: 3.5/23; 4/100;80-200 | Hoya: 25-42;80-205 | Kiron: 2/28;70-210 | Leica: Elmarit-R 2.8/35 | Minolta: 1.7/50 | Nikkor: 2.8/24;2/35;2/50;1.2/55;1.8/85;3.5/135 | West German: Ludwig 2.9/50; Meyer 2.8/100; Will 4.5/105; Enna 3.5/135; Zeiss 4/135;Isco 4/135; Enna 4.5/240 | Olympus: 3.5/28;1.4/50;3.5/135 | Rikenon: 1.7/50;35-70 | Rollei/Voigtländer: 1.4/55;1.8/50 | Russian: Peleng3.5/8; Zenitar2.8/16; MIR2.8/37; Volna2.8/50; Industar3.5/50; Industar3.5/5cm; Helios2/50; Helios2/58; Volna2.8/80; Jupiter2/85; Kaleinar2.8/100;Tair2.8/135; Jupiter3.5/135; Jupiter4/135; Telear3.5/200; Jupiter4/200; Tair4.5/300;RF: Jupiter2.8/35;Industar2.8/53 | Sigma: 28-85;28-105(AF);17-70(AF) | Soligor: 28-105;35-200;70-220 | Tamron: 2.5/24;2.5/135;2.8/135;60-300;70-210 | Tokina: 28-105;80-200;12-24(AF);70-210(AF) | Vivitar: 3.5/17;2/24;2/28;2.5/28;2.8/28 | Yashica: 1.7/50;2/5cm | Other Japanese: Cosina3.8/20; Petri2.8/28; Albinar2.8/28; Porst1.8/35; 2.8/135; Weltblick3.5/135; Beroflex 8/500; Spiratone28-200; Maginon70-210
Green are the lenses I shoot the most.
More? http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65

[Katastrofo]

OK by me, Carsten. The problem is, I'd probably be the one they
would be complaining about...

[poilu]

Look like a nice politic speech
Every politics promise true democracy that start from bottom
A moderator cannot be like another member, even if a minister go shopping in a supermarket, he will always be a minister.
If a moderator write something on the forum, it will not perceived the same as a simple member.
I vote for free speech for everybody except for the moderators, that is true democracy from the bottom.
Moderator should not take part to any ethic, ethnic or political debate, just follow (and moderate if needed) but not participate.
Lets see if my free speech will be perceived as personal harassment
_________________
Have a nice day

[Orio]

[Orio]

[Borges]

[Richard_D]

The idea of freedom from censorship is noble, but it's a difficult position to maintain to it's it's ultimate point. I suspect that even the most tolerant of us would expect pornographic to be removed for example. There will always be some limits to freedom of expression.
_________________
Richard

The interesting bit:

Nikkors: 20mm f2.8 AIS, 24mm f2.8 AIS, 28mm f2.8 AIS, 35mm f2.8 AIS, 50mm f1.4 AI, 50mm f1.48AI, 50m f2 AI,
55mm f3.5 AI'd, 105mm f4 AI, 135mm f2.8 AI'd, 135mm f3.5 AI'd, 200mm f4 AI'd, 300mm f4.5 AIS .
Nikon E Series: 100mm f2.8 .
Soviet Nikon Mount: Jupiter 9 (85mm f2), Mir-24N (35mm f2),
Tair-11a (135mm f2.8 ) .
Other: Meyer-Gorlitz Trioplan 100mm f2.8 (M42), Asahi Super Takumar 55 mm f2 (M42) ,Tokina 17mm f3.5 (AIS), Tamron 300mm f5.6 SP, Tamron 500mm f8 SP, Tamron 70-210 3.5(constant) .

DSLR: Nikon D200. 35mm SLRsNikon FE, Nikon EL2, Pentax S1a.

Sub-Minature: Pentax Auto 110, 18mm f2.8, 24mm f2.8, 50mm f2.8.

More to come...

[Orio]

[Richard_D]