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MM version of Sonnar 2.8/85
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: MM version of Sonnar 2.8/85 Reply with quote
I finally found one cheap and mint after almost 2 years of search. I only had the AE so far, but with the RX, it really made sense for me to get a MM.

Rumours is that there is no difference between AE and MM in the case of the Sonnar 85. Well I am now in the condition to say that this is not true, there is a difference. Stopped down both lenses are "sensational" for me. However, wide open the AE is "very good", while the MM is again "sensational". I can not detect any significant difference in sharpness in the MM version between wide open and stopped down.

Here's two shots from the MM version. One is close up the other is far distance. You get in both cases a thumbnail for the whole image, and 100% crops. Remember these are all wide open:





















Not how in the last 100% crop you can read the white-on-white embroidery work on the towels. How about that as wide open micro-contrast? Shocked

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
that is impressive

thanks


PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
impressive wide open crops!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio

Well, the beautifull model.

Why the difference in the 2,8 aperture? The AE and MM versions are the same shame 5 elements? I can't find differences in formula termins.

Somebody said in this forum (you?) that the distagons 35 F/2,8 in MM are more sharp in borders that the AE and may be sharp in F/2,8. I can't find any difference in shame between both, 6 elements and 6 grups. (in zeiss page).

Regards.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
estudleon wrote:
Orio

Why the difference in the 2,8 aperture? The AE and MM versions are the same shame 5 elements? I can't find differences in formula termins.


Just small improvements. Optimizations, brought without the need to change the actual basic design. You don't need to change the number of glasses to change how a lens work. For example, even minimal distances from glass to glass can make an enormous difference (although probably the improvements are more related to the shape of the glasses or the materials used in the glass).

estudleon wrote:
Somebody said in this forum (you?) that the distagons 35 F/2,8 in MM are more sharp in borders that the AE and may be sharp in F/2,8. I can't find any difference in shame between both, 6 elements and 6 grups. (in zeiss page).


The 2.8/35 shouldn't have changed. The 2.8/28 and 2.8/25 certainly did, and the 2.8/135 also surely did. The 1.4/35, 1.4/50 and 1.4/85 are disputed.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Am I mistaken that the MM's may also have a better MC?


PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bruce wrote:
Am I mistaken that the MM's may also have a better MC?


Zeiss continuously improve their lenses, without giving much notice.
However, I think that the T* multicoating should not have changed much. Actually, the risk is that it might have changed for worse, since lead was a major component of coating layers and it was forbidden sometime back.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
These crops are indeed impressive!!! Shocked Wow.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Amazing performer ! Cat eyes always best subject.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
WOW, too bad it's beyond my reach...way beyond! I am impressed, nonetheless.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great comparison Orio!!

I also have the AE so far but just found the MM version for about EUR200 - would you consider that an acceptable price (MINT lens)?


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Great comparison Orio!!

I also have the AE so far but just found the MM version for about EUR200 - would you consider that an acceptable price (MINT lens)?


That is exactly what I spent for my copy which is like new. It is a very good price and you should get it because there are not so many copies of this lens around in MM version.

200 Euros are normal price for an AE lens, see this one:
Click here to see on Ebay
This one is starting just a little lower, and since seller is only shipping to Italy it could become a good occasion - but it's always AE:
Click here to see on Ebay

the very few MM copies that I saw of this lens on Ebay were never below 250 Euros, but I got mine off Ebay...

Italian Ebay shows rarely the Sonnar 85 and 19 times out of 20 it's an AE.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Orio!

Just checking again, I found that I also have that kinda rare Sonnar 3.5/100mm in MM version - any experience with that one? I guess that one disappeared in favour of the 2/100mm Planar soon.

Btw. here is the Zeiss data sheet of the 2.8/85mm Sonnar:
http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/Sonnar2.8_85mm_e/$File/Sonnar2.8_85mm_e.pdf

many others (in English) may be found here (Zeiss hist. data sheets):
http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/Contents-Frame/8401A54783ED1154C12570F90049667D


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Thanks Orio!
Just checking again, I found that I also have that kinda rare Sonnar 3.5/100mm in MM version - any experience with that one? I guess that one disappeared in favour of the 2/100mm Planar soon.


Yes, I have experience, it is -by far- the sharpest lens that I have. Sharper than the 2.8/85, sharper than my Leicas and way sharper than the Planar 2/100 (which has different qualities of course, bokeh colours and 3D)

I would never sell my MM Sonnar 3.5/100 - not even under torture - but if you want to sell yours I think that Andy (F16sunshine) could be interested.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Orio!! I used it a bit some time ago but could not remember that it was THAT good...so who talks about selling it.... Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I copy this from my old 3.5/100 thread here:

Quote:
Holy cow!!!!!!!!
What lens did I buy?

whole scene resized f/5.6:


crop of 100% f/5.6, not sharpened:


whole scene resized wide open:


(hold yourself strong now)
crop of 100% wide open, not sharpened:



Shocked Shocked Shocked

and ISO 400 on a crappy day!


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In this series I have a lot of pics taken with the Sonnar 3.5/100:

http://www.oriofoto.net//temp/carnevale2008_2/index.html

lens indication is under each picture


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shocked Clear evidence why I say lens is Carl Zeiss


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Juts btw. here I found a datasheet about that rare mentioned Sonnar 3.5/100mm also - no wonder it is that good looking at these MTF curves:
http://www.zeiss-optronik.com/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/Sonnar3.5_100mm_d/$File/Sonnar3.5_100mm_d.pdf


PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Impressive, aren't they?
They explain why with that lens "wide open" mean only less DOF and not, in practice, less optical performance.

BTW you can download all the contax PDFs from the Zeiss website if you like:
http://forum.mflenses.com/german-lenses-and-cameras-t7156.html
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