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Mir 1 Brussels Grand Prix lens
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:15 pm    Post subject: Mir 1 Brussels Grand Prix lens Reply with quote
Hi, all!

I have recently purchased Mir 1 Brussels Grand Prix lens off Ebay. I just received it and upon inspection, I noticed that the lens barrel seems to be uneven between the focus ring and the second aperture ring. I am attaching an image that illustrates this. If you look on the left of the image, the two rings are close together, but on the right they are further apart. As I focus further away from infinity, the unevenness becomes more apparent as the rings are pushed further apart. This is my first Mir 1 and I am uncertain if this is normal. I have never seen a lens that exhibits such unevenness.



Thank you for any insight into this issue!

Anna

Edit: Not sure why the image is not showing up. Here's the picture on Flickr - https://farm1.staticflickr.com/567/21851607304_a145a3ca59_c.jpg


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anna,

As this is your first post your image is not available so I can't see the problem. All I can suggest is that one of the dangers inherent in purchasing old lenses is that some of them haven't been treated as well as we could have wished.

What you have described is not common of the MIR-1 so I can only conclude that your lens has been mis-treated in some way. It is generally a good lens, even if the Soviets did push that 1958 Grand Prix labeling for a few years past its relevance.

It might be repairable but then it might be less expensive to buy another MIR-1.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Mir 1 Brussels Grand Prix lens Reply with quote
Anna Valeria wrote:
Hi, all!

I have recently purchased Mir 1 Brussels Grand Prix lens off Ebay. I just received it and upon inspection, I noticed that the lens barrel seems to be uneven between the focus ring and the second aperture ring. I am attaching an image that illustrates this. If you look on the left of the image, the two rings are close together, but on the right they are further apart. As I focus further away from infinity, the unevenness becomes more apparent as the rings are pushed further apart. This is my first Mir 1 and I am uncertain if this is normal. I have never seen a lens that exhibits such unevenness.



Thank you for any insight into this issue!

Anna

Edit: Not sure why the image is not showing up. Here's the picture on Flickr - https://farm1.staticflickr.com/567/21851607304_a145a3ca59_c.jpg

Hello Anna and welcome.
First image posted doesn't appear for antispam measures.
Now it should be alright.

It's a beautiful lens you got and the unevenness isn't normal.
You'll find interesting servicing informations here
http://forum.mflenses.com/helios-44-13-blade-1st-gen-relube-mir-1-37mm-relube-t64426,highlight,%2Bmir+%2B1+%2B37mm.html
and here
http://forum.mflenses.com/mir-1-grand-prix-brussels-black-re-lubing-t15493.html

Else, did you try it and how are the results ? Is the image well focused everywhere ?


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you very much for your helpful replies and links. I was afraid that what I'm observing isn't normal.

I just tested the lens and while it produces beautiful images at close distances, it doesn't seem to focus on anything beyond ~7 meters. The optics are very clean, but clearly there's something wrong with the mechanics. Very disappointing!

Since I paid under $50 for it (shipping included), I will probably try to take it apart to see if it can be realigned. At the very least, it will be a nice learning experience as I've never taken apart a lens before.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anna Valeria wrote:
At the very least, it will be a nice learning experience as I've never taken apart a lens before.


That’s the best way to approach it.

Please be gentle with it, for someone else might have been too hasty while re-assembling it. Wink


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anna Valeria wrote:
Thank you very much for your helpful replies and links. I was afraid that what I'm observing isn't normal.

I just tested the lens and while it produces beautiful images at close distances, it doesn't seem to focus on anything beyond ~7 meters. The optics are very clean, but clearly there's something wrong with the mechanics. Very disappointing!

Since I paid under $50 for it (shipping included), I will probably try to take it apart to see if it can be realigned. At the very least, it will be a nice learning experience as I've never taken apart a lens before.

I hope all that's wrong with it is that the focus ring has been moved, there are 3 grub screws around the focus ring, you should be able to loosen all 3 screws, then slide the focus ring off, that should expose the outside ring of the focus helicoid.
Post some pictures, and we will advise you further from there.
The Helios 44-2 is very similar construction wise, and Ive had them apart multiple times.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/albums/72157646672062919


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It looks to me that the focusing ring moved becouse one or all of the small screws that keep it in plac is to loos (or is missing), one of it can be seen in your picture. As the poster said, post pics of the process and we ll try to help, Russian lenses tend to be simple mechanically, i too have some experience with them.

Regarding the lens not focusing to infinity, are you using it on a Nikon body? If so that s normal, as the Nikon flange distance is too long for M42 mount lenses.

Tomas


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anna, you're in good hands here. Wink
Do try to fix it. It deserves it.
What is your camera ?

James, it seems your link is broken.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Olivier wrote:

James, it seems your link is broken.

Yeah, sorry, it's all hidden, I'd have to post each picture, it's just my Helios 44-2 CLA
This link may work:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/lightshow-photography/h212QE


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
Olivier wrote:

James, it seems your link is broken.

Yeah, sorry, it's all hidden, I'd have to post each picture, it's just my Helios 44-2 CLA
This link may work:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/lightshow-photography/h212QE

Yes it works.
Thank you. Smile


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow, I can see the link now as well, thank you for posting it!

The camera I use with my manual lenses is Sony a6000. I haven't had any issues focusing my Helioses (I have multiple versions) to infinity with this setup. However, this Mir 1 has the M39 mount. I am using a M39 --> M42 converter with it. Not sure if that makes any difference for infinity focus - this is my first M39 lens. I haven't been able to locate a M39 adapter for my Sony; everything I find is for Leica M39.

Another thing I discovered while inspecting Mir-1 this morning is that the first aperture ring is off as well. It stops at 11 and rotates well past 2.8. I am thinking someone took this lens apart and didn't put it back together properly.

I ordered some tools for the repair - spanner and two different sets of micro screwdrivers - should this be enough, or am I missing something?

Thank you once again for all your help, everyone!


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anna Valeria wrote:
Lightshow, I can see the link now as well, thank you for posting it!

The camera I use with my manual lenses is Sony a6000. I haven't had any issues focusing my Helioses (I have multiple versions) to infinity with this setup. However, this Mir 1 has the M39 mount. I am using a M39 --> M42 converter with it. Not sure if that makes any difference for infinity focus - this is my first M39 lens. I haven't been able to locate a M39 adapter for my Sony; everything I find is for Leica M39.

Another thing I discovered while inspecting Mir-1 this morning is that the first aperture ring is off as well. It stops at 11 and rotates well past 2.8. I am thinking someone took this lens apart and didn't put it back together properly.

I ordered some tools for the repair - spanner and two different sets of micro screwdrivers - should this be enough, or am I missing something?

Thank you once again for all your help, everyone!



Anna,

There are plenty of LTM/M39 to NEX adapters on Ebay. My favorite is...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/M39-LTM-LSM-Leica-Screw-Lens-to-Sony-E-Mount-Adapter-for-NEX-NEX5-NEX-7-M39-NEX-/281837649830?hash=item419ed53fa6:g:KukAAMXQLw1RzpQH

With some strange and rare exceptions it doesn't matter on a Sony camera whether the lens/adapter is marked LTM, M39 or L39.

While it is true that some Soviet LTM lenses won't focus correctly on German LTM cameras (and vice versa) the difference is small and only applies to LTM Rangefinder cameras. Sony's through the lens Electronic focusing is not affected by those differences. The strange exceptions are for rare camera/lens combinations that use a 39mm thread mount but a completely different flange distance than Leica/Kiev based cameras.

MY APOLOGIES. I HAD FORGOTTEN THAT SOME SOVIET ERA SLR CAMERAS USED RANGEFINDER (LTM) THREAD MOUNTS. IT MAKES PURCHASING SOVIET ERA LENSES A BIT OF A GAMBLE AT TIMES.

Last edited by newst on Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anna Valeria wrote:

The camera I use with my manual lenses is Sony a6000. I haven't had any issues focusing my Helioses (I have multiple versions) to infinity with this setup. However, this Mir 1 has the M39 mount. I am using a M39 --> M42 converter with it. Not sure if that makes any difference for infinity focus - this is my first M39 lens. I haven't been able to locate a M39 adapter for my Sony; everything I find is for Leica M39.


I have the same lens, i.e. Mir-1 in M39. It's impossible with a normal M42 adapter to focus infinity. I therefore use the Zenit M39 extension ring (apprx. 26.4 mm) on an M39/LTM adapter instead.
It's somehow a miracle for me as when I measure the overall size of both possible adapter variations it seems to be the same.
I have mentioned that already here: http://forum.mflenses.com/35mm-2-8-rokkor-vs-nikkor-vs-mir-37-t72410,highlight,+nikkor++35.html


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like I bought one complicated lens!

Are all Mir-1 M39 lenses the same when it comes to adapters? Or, are there two variations? Right now, mine doesn't focus past ~7 meters, but it's also not assembled correctly. If this lens requires a different adapter than what I am currently using, then I will have to purchase the correct one before taking it apart. Otherwise, I'll never be able to test it out and see if I reassembled it correctly.

Here's the front of the lens, in case the serial number determines mount type.




tb_a, will one of the extension rings work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/321779033946?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I'm not quite certain which ones I need - never looked into Zenit M39 accessories.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I went back and looked at my MIR-1. I have owned it for quite a while but haven't used it much lately.

My copy has an M39 threaded mount but it is designed for use on a Soviet SLR camera, not a Rangefinder. I am able to use it with my A6000 and A7II by using an M42 adapter and this M39 to M42 adapter ring.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3PCS-M39-to-M42-Screw-Lens-Mount-Adapter-Ring-L39-LTM-LSM-Leica-Pentax-M39-M42-/391302915309?hash=item5b1b78a4ed:g:x8sAAOSwGvhT3JnO

I suspect your lens is the same. The M39/LTM mount won't hold the lens far enough from the Sony sensor to focus past that limited distance.

My lens works beautifully but is, let's say, cosmetically challenged. Apparently some time back I decided that I wouldn't get any resale from it so I glued the adapter ring to the lens, then forgot that I had done so.



My MIR-1 with M42 adapter on the A6000.

Last edited by newst on Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yep, M42 + the ring is the setup I was trying to use on my a6000 for this lens.

I guess I'll just take it apart when my tools arrive and hope that my adapter combination works. Assuming I'll be able to put it back together and/or it is not missing crucial parts!


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll try to use my lens on my NEX on the M42 adapter tomorrow at infinity and advise outcome. So far I only used the lens on my Ricoh which is Leica-M mount.
Maybe those adapters are slightly different.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, the SLR /M39 is the same register as M42, L39 & LTM are the same mount with similar dimensions, but has a shorter registration, sometimes sellers can mislabel the mount, and also use M39 to describe the LTM/L39 mount lenses which can add confusion.

Your lens is the SLR M39 type, an M39 to M42 adapter plus M42 to your camera mount adapter will be required.
Mounting an M39 SLR lens to a shorter adapter like an LTM adapter will cause focus to become impossible unless the lens focus can move the optics fare enough to match the infinity position(the closest position).
If the lens can focus on something, but not reach infinity, it's because the lens is too far from the sensor(incorrect registration), or the focus helicoid may be assembled incorrectly, or the infinity stop is out of adjustment(if the lens supports any adjustment).
Anna, if you can post a picture from the side showing the lens mounted, we can double check that the lens is mounted correctly, any gaps and infinity will not be possible.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Regarding the aperture not working properly that you wrote about in a previous post. I don t have the lens but form the pictures it seems it s a preset aperture lens, it has two aperture rings. With one you set the desired aperture and with the second one you actually close down the aperture after you have focused. This was the way how it worked in the analog days, as it s difficult to focus with the aperture stopped down, since the viewfinder gets dim.

Try to pull or push the front aperture ring or the rear one and turn it, do it gently. Or just ask the other owners of the lens here.

Chances are the lens is assemled correctly, be careful when you ll start to work on it. I speak from my experiences, until you don t have much practice with opening and reassembling lenses, do the minimum necessary. There are probably much cheaper lenses that you can get and practice on them.

Tomas


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
Yes, the SLR /M39 is the same register as M42

Seems to be my favourite topic around here Smile That statement is not true, see posts by Ramon and me here:

http://forum.mflenses.com/russian-m39-to-eos-t66385.html


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
no infinity problem on my Mir-1 with M42 adapter and M39 to M42 ring.. same with my Helios 44 (also M39)


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
MartinV wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
Yes, the SLR /M39 is the same register as M42

Seems to be my favourite topic around here Smile That statement is not true, see posts by Ramon and me here:

http://forum.mflenses.com/russian-m39-to-eos-t66385.html


I am glad that you delivered the explanation why I am not crazy and why I encountered the explained problems at infinity. Obviously my used measurement tool isn't exact enough to show the differences. However, on the normal M42 to Leica-M adapter infinity focus was impossible with my copy of the Mir-1 and using the Zenit M39 extension ring (part of the standard Zenit 4-ring set) to use the lens on the M39/LTM adapter instead solved the problem.
However, I only encountered this during my infinity landscape lens test quoted earlier, i.e. for normal use at medium distances it wasn't even noticeable.
Thank you.

BTW, for those who reported that it may work on a standard M42 adapter: Try to use the lens for an infinity landscape picture at F2.8. I am sure this won't produce a really sharp picture. At F16 it may be somehow acceptable.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ok... no infinity problem on my Mir-1 even at F2.8

maybe the M42 adapters for Sony E-Mount are shorter than they normaly should.. I don't know


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tedat wrote:
ok... no infinity problem on my Mir-1 even at F2.8

maybe the M42 adapters for Sony E-Mount are shorter than they normaly should.. I don't know


So here is my example of the Mir-1 with a step-up ring M39 to M42 mounted on a M42 to NEX adapter on my NEX at F 2.8 (focus to infinity).

100% crop of the center:



I would not consider this as an acceptable sharpness. Same story on my Ricoh GXR.

Maybe somebody has modified your lens before you've bought it. I don't know.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to show the difference. Same scenario as before but with Zenit M39 extension ring on a M39/LTM adapter on the NEX at F 2.8 (focus set to infinity).
Again a 100% crop of the center:

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