Minolta MC-X 1.2/58mm and 1.7/85mm repair

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Back in 2017, hidden in a lot of old cameras, I bought a MC 1.2/58mm. While from the outside it looked like new, there was quite a bit of fungus inside. Not only was the space between the front group and rear group affected, but there was also fungus inside the sealed front group. Not much later, together with another Minolta collector (and automotive engineer) we tried to dismantle the front group, albeit without success.

Roughly a year later, again hidden in a lot of old stuff, there was an equally nice looking MC 1.7/85mm. Again, there was a problem - its aperture was stuck open. Since I already had a working MC-II 1.7/85mm and MD 1.7/85mm, I didn't bother to open and clean the newly acquired MC-X 1.7/85mm. Both lenses were shelved and forgotten.

Some days ago I decided to give them another try.

The MC-X 1.2/58mm is pretty straightforward when it comes to removing the front and the rear leans groups. However, opening the sealed front group proved to be a bit tricky: There are two small metal rings keeping the front lens in its position. The first ring has two slots for the spanner wrench, and getting it loose was no problem. The second ring - just beneath the first - obviously is sealed and needs rather more force. It seems that Minolta had a special tool for opening it, since there are four slots instead of the usual two. After some trials, and following the suggestions of Richard Haw, also the second ring came free. Cleaning the inner surface of the first lens was relatively easy, and no traces or damage to the coating was visible. The rear surface of the front group and the first surface of the rear gruoup were only slightly affected by fungus, and easy to clean as well. Reassembling the front group and then the entire lens was no problem. Just be very careful when removing the aperture ring - there's a small metal ball behind it (about 1 mm in diameter!), for "clicking" the aperture. It tends to fly away, pushed by a minute spring ...

Now the MC 1.2/58mm was perfectly clean again - and test images did confirm that its optical formula must slightly derive from the earlier MC-II 1.2/58mm: The MC-II has a distinctively yellowish tint, the colors of MC-X on the other hand are in line with other Minolta lenses. The MC-X is sharper wide open, and it has more longitudinal CAs.

Minolta XM with Minolta MC 1.7/85mm (left) and Minolta X-1 with Minolta MC 1.2/58mm (right), after cleaning

Now having successfully completed the removing of fungus from the 1.2/58mm I thought that cleaning the aperture of the 1.7/85mm would be easy and quickly done. I was wrong, though. More information on that one tomorrow Wink

S

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm #1: Overview

Now let's start with the Minolta MC 1.7/85mm. We'll proceed as follows:

1) Remove the front group
2) Remove the rear group
3) Remove the aperture mechanism
4) dismantle and clean the focusing mechanism
5) dismantle and clean the aperture mechanism
6) re-assemble the aperture mechanism
7) re-assemble the focusing mechanism
8 ) re-assemble front and rear group
9) calibrate the focusing mechanism for infinity

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm #1: Removing the front group

First we remove the front ring of the lens. It's easiest to use rubber gloves, grip the front ring firmly and turn it counter-clockwise. Usually it doesn't need that much force.

Now we turn the focusing ring from infinity to its nearest distance (1 m). The small screws now are visible. Carefully remove them using proper JIS screwdrivers.

Once the screws are gone you may remove the protecting metal ring.

Again using the rubber gloves, grab the front of the lens element firmly and take it out, turning it couter-clockwise.

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm #2: Removing the rear group

Turn the remaining part upside down and remove the silver colored protecting ring, again using correct JIS screwdrivers.

Now carefully remove the bayonet mechanism itself.
ATTENTION: be very careful NOT to remove the aperture ring, not even accidentally when lifting out the bayonet mechanism!!
The aperture mechanism must stay in place; otherwise you risk that the tiny "aperture-click-ball" (about 1 mm in diameter) will be ejected by the small spring pushing it usually against the aperture ring.
Finding such a tiny steel ball on a wooden floor is difficult. Trying to find it on a carpet is useless ...

Now the bayonet mechanism is removed, and the aperture ring is still in its original position.

Take a lens spanner wrench and remove the real lens group by turning it counter-clockwise.

Rear lens group removed.

Re-assemble the bayonet mount to prevent the aperture ring from being dislocated (and the aperture-click-ball from being lost).

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

Topic belongs in "Equipment Care And Repairs" sub-forum...

Thank you!

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm #3: Removing the aperture mechanism

Carefully loosen the four screws indicated.

Remove the aperture mechanism.

The aperture mechanism seen from the front side (the screws were re-inserted to prevent losing them)

Here's why the aperture didn't work properly any more. Lots of oil between the aperture blades (and not only oil, but'll see that later).

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm #4: Dismantling and cleaning the focusing mechanism

Now things are getting a bit more compolicated. Dismantling is easy - but being able to correctly reassemble it is another thing.
Before starting with #4, please ensure that the focusing mechanism is set to "infinity". Then, looking from the front side, mark the position of the outer focusing ring (the part with the focusidng rubber). In my case, the aluminium ring had already been marked with a double line (indication a previous servicing of the lens - we will later come back to that). Usually you'd make only one line per ring, of course.

Remove the four screws.

Be careful not to loose the tiny washers on each of the four screws!

Remove the focusing ring without moving/turning the brass ring beneath.

Now mark the exact position of the brass ring vs the outer aluminium shell.

What a mess! The entire inside of the focusing mechanism is covered with oil. Obviously, long time ago, someone has been applying lots of grease ... This is not how a Minolta lens normally looks !

Now turn the narrow brass ring (red arrow) until the inner aluminium ring reaches the end of its guides (red ring); then turn the aluminium ring until it comes out.
ATTENTION: Carefully mark the position of the inner alu ring vs the "in-between" brass ring at the exact position where it comes out - otherwise reassembling will be difficult!

Now the inner aluminum ring has come off.

Then carefully unscrew the brass ring, counting how many turns it needs to come off. Mark the point where it comes off.

The two rings have come off. The "brass on aluminum" construction ensures the exceptionally smooth focusing of these earlier MC-C lenses.

Lots of grease indeed!

Now turn the remaining "empty" focusing mechanism upside down and remove - again! - the bayonet mount. Again be very careful NOT remove the aperture ring!

Bayonet removed.

Looking on the top (front) side of the remaining body. The tiny slots / incisions visible on the inside of the aperture ring are meant to produce the "click-stops". There, in between the inner main part and the aperture ring, is the tiny click-stop mechanism consisting of a spring and a steel ball.

Carefully lift the aperture ring at the opposite side of the click-stop mechanism, and remove it very slowly. Usually the small steel ball will remain stuck on the inner part, but it may also fall down.

Aperture ring removed.

Steel ball (<1mm diameter) on its original position (left). Tiny steel spring appearing after removing the small steel ball (right).

The tiny spring is removed. Its diameter is <1mm!

Back to the remaining part for dismantling - remove the screws after having marked their orîginal position. You may also take a picture, of course.

Stopper removed. Loosen the four screws and remove them.

Separate the two remaining parts (silver and black), and remove the six screws.

Remove the two guides of the focusing mechanism.

Disassembling complete - almost. The aperture mechanism (left side on the middle row) still is isn't dismantled. I was hoping that a thorough rinsing with solvent would be sufficient to clean it (usually that works pretty well).

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm #5: Dismantling and cleaning the aperture mechanism

Before dismantling the entire aperture mechanism I tried to simply wash it with a solvent (acetone). Though the oil was reoved by the solvent, there were small amounts of a sticky, tar-like resin remaining all over the mechanism.
This resin had to be rmoved thoroughly before the aperture would be working properly, and so I decided to dismantle it completely.

The tar-like substance is a condensation product from the grease. I strongly assume that this lens had been serviced previously with too much of a cheap grease (not the original Minolta grease).

We're starting from the rear end of the aperture mechanism:

There's a thin copper ring (which looks almost like a shim) holding the larger brass ring below in its correct position. The copper ring can be lifted and removed e. g. with a sharp knife.

Copper ring removed, brass ring still in place.

Brass ring removed.

Now turn the remaining aperture mechanism upside down and look at it from the front side: there are three tiny headless screws holding a shiny aluminium rin in position (which in turn holds the cover plate in front of the aperture blades).
Carefully remove these screws with a suitable screwdriver.

The headless screws are removed, and so is the shiny aluminium ring.

Now, while slightly pressing the cover plate towards the aperture blades, we turn the aperture upside down again and now lift off the "cap".
The exposed aperture blades now will be laying on top of the cover plate (see image above).
Note the small "droplets" of a sticky adhesive resin-like substance; they somehow are glueing the aperture blades together.

Aperture blades removed, on the right you can see the cover plate.

Cleaning of the blades (scrubbing carefully with acetone)

The inside of the brass ring was so contaminated with tar that I had to use an extremely fine polishing paper (ISO P2500 grade, 8 um particle size).

All the parts of the aperture mechanism after a thorough cleaning.

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm #6: reassembling the aperture mechanism

Reassembling the aperture mechanism is straightforward and quite easy as long as work according to the steps given below.

Take the cover blade and place it in front of you, with the aperture blade holes on top. Add five aperture blades - one after another - carefully and in the proper orientation (left image). Keep the blades in the "wide open" position.
Add the sixth aperture blade by carefully lifting the first blade slightly (as shown in the middle image).
Finally, using a very small screwdriver, position the sixths (last) aperture blade correctly (right image).

Now carefully close the aperture to a middling position (about f Cool

. This requires some patience since you have to move each blade individually and step-by-step. It's best to use e. g. a small screwdriver to shift the blades to their "f8" position.

Place the cover plate - now being below the aperture blades! - on a small circular pedestal (roughly 4 cm in diameter, and at least 2 cm high)

Then carefully put the rear end of the aperture mechanism (I'll call it "cap" from now on) on top of it. Carefully rotate the cap slightly in both directions until at least one of the aperture blades engages. Now turn the entire mechanism including our small pedestal upside down, remove the pedestal and continue to engage the remaining aperture blades. If you do this carefully, one-by-one, and using a small screwdriver to move the blades, it will be straightforward an easy. If you try to do everything at once, you may en up with a mess, though. Take your time. It'll take less than 5 min even for a beginner.

Once all the blades are engaged, you may put the shiny aluminium ring back into its correct position by using the three headless screws. Before tightening the screws, check whether the aperture lever (on the back side of the mecanism) can open and close the aperture as required: It should be fairly easy to move.

Then tighten the headless screws.

Put the brass ring back on the aperture mechanism and secure it with the thin copper ring.
Adjusting the aperture mechanism: The aperture must open completely, and close to its minimal value (about 3 mm diameter). If it doesn't work correctly, adjust it from the front side (i. e. not fron the side shown here!): Use the cover plate (below the shiny alu ring and on top of the aperture blades) to adjust: Just turn the cover plate until everything's OK, the fix it again using the three headless screws mentioned before. The aperture mechanism now is cleaned, reassembled and adjusted.

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm #6: reassembling the focusing mechanism

ATTENTION:
To reassemble the focusing mechanism you can't just reverse the "#4: Disassembling the focusing mechansim" instructions!
Instead, follow the steps given below.

Start with the cleaned aluminium part (left image) and screw in the brass part (right image). Be sure to apply as many revolutions as you had counted when unsrewing it (in my lens we had about eight revolutions).

The n screw in the aluminum focusing thread. Be sure to start exactly at the marked point - that makes things a lot easier!

Finally reassemble the two guides using the six screws shown above.

All other steps can be done reversing the dismantling instructions given above.

lumens pixel · Expire: 2021-06-25

Fantastic. So much beyond my skills I am afraid.

Like 1

RokkorDoctor · Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1268 Location: Kent, UK

Well done on the repairs. Like 1 small

These two are very robust constructions and are in many ways some of the easier Rokkors to service.

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

Mir · Expire: 2017-09-30

Truly spectacular work .....

Had i seen that a few years back i could've done my 58mm myself !

Thanks for sharing ....

cbass · Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 441

Very informative and extremely well written. Thank you.

When you regrease the helicoid what do you use?

RokkorDoctor · Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1268 Location: Kent, UK

vandergus · Joined: 14 Jan 2022 Posts: 15 Location: United States

Thanks for posting a detailed tear down of these lenses. I'm hoping to find a 85mm fixer upper and this will certainly come in handy.

For disassembling and reassembling helicoids, I've found that two things that helped me the most were

1.) Measuring the length of the helicoid at infinity with calipers.
2.) Marking or noting exactly where the helicoid came apart.

I've found that scoring mating marks isn't always sufficient. It's possible to put the helicoid back together in a way that the marks line up, but the overall length (and hence infinity focus) is different. If you know that original length, and mate the helicoid threads as they were previously done (see step 2), you are almost guaranteed to get the lens back to its infinity focus point.

Of course, the original infinity focus point could have been wrong, but that requires a different solution.

Cheers and thanks again!

RokkorDoctor · Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1268 Location: Kent, UK

Knudsen · Joined: 16 Jun 2021 Posts: 115 Location: Indiana

RokkorDoctor · Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1268 Location: Kent, UK

Lightshow · Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary

I know from experience that you do want to over lubricant the helicoid on these two lenses(MCII in my case) the path from the helicoid to the aperture mechanism is too short, don't use any grease that has even the slightest tendency to separate out or your freshly relubed lens will get a wet and sticky aperture.

I somehow missed this thread when it was first active, at least I caught it on the rebound.

Nice job stevemark, I can tell you spent quite the effort to document the process, so thank you for that effort. Happy Dog

RokkorDoctor · Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1268 Location: Kent, UK

RokkorDoctor · Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1268 Location: Kent, UK

One additional hint on disassembly of the MC 58mm f/1.2:

stevemark already wisely mentioned the aperture click-ball to watch out for.

However, there are at least a couple of lenses (58mm f/1.2 and another one I can't remember now) that have eight screws that appear to hold the mount onto the lens. In fact only four of those screws (the long ones) hold the mount onto the lens. The other four (the short ones) hold together a ball-race inside the mount. Only undo the long screws to remove the mount; if you undo all the short ones you'll spend a good hour on your knees on the floor hunting for tiny ball bearings. Don't ask me how I know Wink

RokkorDoctor · Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1268 Location: Kent, UK

A hint as to handling of Minolta aperture blades:

Once cleaned as per stevemark's instructions, DO NOT touch them with your fingers. Skin acids will readily promote rusting of the blades and make for visible finger prints.

On the majority (TBH I think all) of Minolta's Rokkor-era aperture blades, the hinge pin riveted onto the blades is hollow.

A fine-tipped wooden tooth-pick/cocktail-stick pressed lightly into this hole is a very useful pick-up tool. Once placed into position hold the blade down with a second tooth-pick/cocktail-stick to release the one from the hinge pin with a light twist. Any accidentally broken-off tip (which is rare if you are careful) can be pulled out with some tweezers.

The same tools can be used to turn blades over or manipulate them; the soft wood will not damage the edges. Smile

Ernst Dinkla · Joined: 30 Nov 2016 Posts: 378