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Minolta 28mm f/2.8 MD Lens: "CELTIC" or not?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:09 am    Post subject: Minolta 28mm f/2.8 MD Lens: "CELTIC" or not? Reply with quote
I bought this lens yesterday, it looks the same of the CELTIC version in every detail, but it does not show that word in the nameplate .

Any help?

It performs remarkably, anyway


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Minolta 28mm f/2.8 MD Lens: "CELTIC" or not? Reply with quote
Super rare or replaced parts maybe.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Minolta 28mm f/2.8 MD Lens: "CELTIC" or not? Reply with quote
Ultrapix wrote:
I bought this lens yesterday, it looks the same of the CELTIC version in every detail, but it does not show that word in the nameplate.

Any help?

Usually this kind of "bastards" arises from repair work ... My original Minolta AF 2.8/200mm APO "non-HS" for instance was transformed by Minolta Switzerland into a "HS" (="High Speed") with proper HS-gear and original "HS"sticker on the lens, however it was missing the "AF stop" button of the factory MinAF 2.8/200mm APO G HS.

Ultrapix wrote:
It performs remarkably, anyway

Yeah, a nice small lens - as good as the Zeiss CY Distagon 2.8/28mm, at least for landscape purposes (for what I test my lneses).

S


PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would suggest that this lens is a Celtic version, but has had the name ring replaced by one of the regular MD Rokkor series.

Of the MD 28mm/2.8 generation with the conical DOF scale, the regular MD Rokkor versions I have seen all have the feet scale in green, whereas all the Celtic versions I have seen have had the feet scale in orange.

There are no guarantees with replaced parts, but the orange feet scale, ribbed focus grip and colour of the coating reflections would lead me to believe the lens actually is a Celtic edition, with the name ring replaced.

...but coating reflections are not easy to judge, so it is unlikely but nevertheless possible that this is a regular MD Rokkor version with a damaged focus ring replaced by one from a Celtic edition.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks to everyone. What I can say is that the lens does not show any signs, so in the event that it has undergone some servicing and parts replacement, whoever did it really had fairy hands, which would have been possible if it had gone through an official service centre. In any case, the most likely hypothesis remains that it is a Celtic that has had its front ring replaced, for reasons that are hard to imagine, or that it has been produced with a mix of parts already at the factory, something that companies sometimes did at particular times.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ultrapix wrote:
Thanks to everyone. What I can say is that the lens does not show any signs, so in the event that it has undergone some servicing and parts replacement, whoever did it really had fairy hands, which would have been possible if it had gone through an official service centre. In any case, the most likely hypothesis remains that it is a Celtic that has had its front ring replaced, for reasons that are hard to imagine, or that it has been produced with a mix of parts already at the factory, something that companies sometimes did at particular times.


If I am not mistaken, the name rings on that model/generation 28/2.8 are plastic, so easily scratched. It may simply have been a substitution for cosmetic reasons.

Again, if I am not mistaken, the Celtic lens line was a budget lens line marketed in the U.S. only (some mechanical & cosmetic simplifications and less advanced coatings, but otherwise optically the same), so outside of the U.S. a replacement Rokkor name ring would have been easier to source than a replacement Celtic name ring. But I am in no doubt that the performance of your lens will be indistinguishable from the regular Rokkor version under most conditions.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Minolta 28mm f/2.8 MD Lens: "CELTIC" or not? Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
I bought this lens yesterday, it looks the same of the CELTIC version in every detail, but it does not show that word in the nameplate.

Any help?

Usually this kind of "bastards" arises from repair work ... My original Minolta AF 2.8/200mm APO "non-HS" for instance was transformed by Minolta Switzerland into a "HS" (="High Speed") with proper HS-gear and original "HS"sticker on the lens, however it was missing the "AF stop" button of the factory MinAF 2.8/200mm APO G HS.

Ultrapix wrote:
It performs remarkably, anyway

Yeah, a nice small lens - as good as the Zeiss CY Distagon 2.8/28mm, at least for landscape purposes (for what I test my lneses).

S


As philip mentioned ,distagon would be a close match with the Sony Fe f2 ,but regarding Minolta 28mm there are some statements saying that 3.5 it would be as good as the 2.8 on f8/11 , anyway, having the 35 mm the ideal choice for me would be 21-24mm FL , that are not easy options for the amount of money they go nowadays.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Minolta 28mm f/2.8 MD Lens: "CELTIC" or not? Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
stevemark wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
I bought this lens yesterday, it looks the same of the CELTIC version in every detail, but it does not show that word in the nameplate.

Any help?

Usually this kind of "bastards" arises from repair work ... My original Minolta AF 2.8/200mm APO "non-HS" for instance was transformed by Minolta Switzerland into a "HS" (="High Speed") with proper HS-gear and original "HS"sticker on the lens, however it was missing the "AF stop" button of the factory MinAF 2.8/200mm APO G HS.

Ultrapix wrote:
It performs remarkably, anyway

Yeah, a nice small lens - as good as the Zeiss CY Distagon 2.8/28mm, at least for landscape purposes (for what I test my lneses).

S


As philip mentioned ,distagon would be a close match with the Sony Fe f2 ,but regarding Minolta 28mm there are some statements saying that 3.5 it would be as good as the 2.8 on f8/11 , anyway, having the 35 mm the ideal choice for me would be 21-24mm FL , that are not easy options for the amount of money they go nowadays.


From memory my experience with the latest models (Rokkor MD-II 28/3.5 and MD-III 28/3.5) is that they are really quite well-behaved as far as flare & contrast are concerned, very likely due to the simple 2-lens construction of the cell ahead of the aperture.

I always thought these two latest calculations by Minolta (Rokkor MD-II 28/3.5 and MD-III 28/3.5) are not very well-known sleepers, only let down a bit by a noticeable higher level of light-fall-off at the corners when shot wide open, but otherwise really excellent.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Minolta 28mm f/2.8 MD Lens: "CELTIC" or not? Reply with quote
RokkorDoctor wrote:
kiddo wrote:
stevemark wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
I bought this lens yesterday, it looks the same of the CELTIC version in every detail, but it does not show that word in the nameplate.

Any help?

Usually this kind of "bastards" arises from repair work ... My original Minolta AF 2.8/200mm APO "non-HS" for instance was transformed by Minolta Switzerland into a "HS" (="High Speed") with proper HS-gear and original "HS"sticker on the lens, however it was missing the "AF stop" button of the factory MinAF 2.8/200mm APO G HS.

Ultrapix wrote:
It performs remarkably, anyway

Yeah, a nice small lens - as good as the Zeiss CY Distagon 2.8/28mm, at least for landscape purposes (for what I test my lneses).

S


As philip mentioned ,distagon would be a close match with the Sony Fe f2 ,but regarding Minolta 28mm there are some statements saying that 3.5 it would be as good as the 2.8 on f8/11 , anyway, having the 35 mm the ideal choice for me would be 21-24mm FL , that are not easy options for the amount of money they go nowadays.


From memory my experience with the latest models (Rokkor MD-II 28/3.5 and MD-III 28/3.5) is that they are really quite well-behaved as far as flare & contrast are concerned, very likely due to the simple 2-lens construction of the cell ahead of the aperture.

I always thought these two latest calculations by Minolta (Rokkor MD-II 28/3.5 and MD-III 28/3.5) are not very well-known sleepers, only let down a bit by a noticeable higher level of light-fall-off at the corners when shot wide open, but otherwise really excellent.


Do not disregard the latest 28 2,8 5/5 which I found even better than the 3,5.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It looks like other samples do exist, then I'd say that this version came out this way from the factory (?)



https://www.ebay.it/itm/134443971404?hash=item1f4d7c334c:g:ioEAAOSwdIRj5S60&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsLVr9dWyzocyDa94%2FKMWtUSahLV36UNoctGLCnWzGDg%2FjMKD0yK3%2FWpg4jvxuOj5GIeTRsQI3GnkFOjxLi8Ab3CIFu2Boe8%2Bjf3lhp0ZSngU5ouwksQyTa2a8ZVqgw7FO0BnbjFiyj8LWDGzLc7PYFBR05hsE3hBB10B%2Fb5l8R%2Brrbz9eln9oSZKXH1jdAhy6tMELS0gmYa5iOQCGwFqChctPBt4hqEadlZtmGUkOXzA%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9SAvdTMYQ


PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ultrapix wrote:
It looks like other samples do exist, then I'd say that this version came out this way from the factory (?)



https://www.ebay.it/itm/134443971404?hash=item1f4d7c334c:g:ioEAAOSwdIRj5S60&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsLVr9dWyzocyDa94%2FKMWtUSahLV36UNoctGLCnWzGDg%2FjMKD0yK3%2FWpg4jvxuOj5GIeTRsQI3GnkFOjxLi8Ab3CIFu2Boe8%2Bjf3lhp0ZSngU5ouwksQyTa2a8ZVqgw7FO0BnbjFiyj8LWDGzLc7PYFBR05hsE3hBB10B%2Fb5l8R%2Brrbz9eln9oSZKXH1jdAhy6tMELS0gmYa5iOQCGwFqChctPBt4hqEadlZtmGUkOXzA%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9SAvdTMYQ


Or a dodgy seller taking regular "Rokkor" nameplates from defective 28mm lenses, and putting them on Celtic lenses in order to sell them at a premium?

(Celtic lenses usually go for a bit less than Rokkor lenses...)

Athough, not sure why they wouldn't then swap the differently patterned vinyl focus grip as well; they are not glued.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
These actually came from the factory like this sometimes in the middle of the MD-II production run and were apparently only sold in Europe (most of the ones i have seen for sale were from the UK.
MD-II era Celtic lenses had serial numbers from 1015XXX up to approx. 1078XXX
MD-II lenses had serial numbers from about 1015XXX to 1238XXX
These special production lenses had serial numbers from about 1063XXX to 1076XXX so they appear intermixed with regular MD ROKKOR's and Celtics.


See pic of a boxed copy that shows that this lens has no ROKKOR name on it (or on the box) and did not come with a lens shade (like the Celtic lenses) so it appears that Minolta was stuck with leftover Celtic parts and decided to use them intermixed with regular lenses to send to market at maybe a lower price in some countries.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
These actually came from the factory like this sometimes in the middle of the MD-II production run and were apparently only sold in Europe (most of the ones i have seen for sale were from the UK.
MD-II era Celtic lenses had serial numbers from 1015XXX up to approx. 1078XXX
MD-II lenses had serial numbers from about 1015XXX to 1238XXX
These special production lenses had serial numbers from about 1063XXX to 1076XXX so they appear intermixed with regular MD ROKKOR's and Celtics.


See pic of a boxed copy that shows that this lens has no ROKKOR name on it (or on the box) and did not come with a lens shade (like the Celtic lenses) so it appears that Minolta was stuck with leftover Celtic parts and decided to use them intermixed with regular lenses to send to market at maybe a lower price in some countries.


Thank you for your detailed answer, which I think puts an end to this little mystery. Interestingly, the drawing on the box shows the normal rubber ring, but if they really were disposing of unused parts, it is consistent that they didn't bother to redo the drawing...
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