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Mike's Seven Laws of Lenses...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEO wrote:

I can understand that. I don't consider myself a collector of lenses. I'm a user and learner. I shoot with a different lens every time I go out and compare the results.
Yes, that's something I do sometimes, it's fun to do.

KEO wrote:
I'd love to get a dedicated monochrome digital camera one day. Seems like a great idea for a product.
Yes, the only currently available OEM options are either very expensive (the M Monochrom) or extremely expensive (the Phase One monochrome back; the complete cam costs over $60.000)
I've thought a very long time about whether I really wanted the M Monochrom, and sold quite some stuff in order cover part of the cost.

There's also 1 or 2 companies selling converted camera's, or offering a conversion service where the colour filter array is removed. But at the time I was considering my options, the price was around 2k for an older gen Fuji.

In the past, Kodak also offered a Monochrome DSLR. But that's really old tech by now, even by my modest standards Wink


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEO wrote:
I'd love to get a dedicated monochrome digital camera one day. Seems like a great idea for a product.


Why when you can convert colour to monochrome at the click of a mouse?


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e6filmuser wrote:

Why when you can convert colour to monochrome at the click of a mouse?
There's many answers to that question.

For me, it's mostly the mindset the camera gives me. The combination of pure B&W and vintage rangefinder lenses (on an actual rangefinder) works like a dream for me.

For others, it's the removal of the softness of the bayer/x-trans/...-colour filter array, the increased sensitivity&lowr noise, etc.

Yet other people see no purpose in a dedicated B&W-camera, and those are obviously not the target for this niche. And of course, that's totally fine.

But if I could keep only 1 camera from my current range, it would be the Monochrom.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't consider myself a collector of lenses. I'm a user and learner.

That's what i believe about myself, everybody else wouldn't agree with me seeing all the stuff I've got around....


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Law #1: Never Sell a Good Lens

There can be exceptions to this rule. Case in point. I own three excellent 55mm f/3.5 Micro-Nikkor macro lenses. It doesn't matter how I wound up with three of them, but I did. I don't use any of them because I have a 55mm f/2.8 Micro-Nikkor, which is a superior lens. So, am I really not supposed to sell any of my 55/3.5 Micros? Sorry, but they're all for sale. I don't use 'em, I don't need 'em, no matter how good they are -- and they are truly outstanding macro lenses.

Or would my situation be a possible corollary of Law #6? That is, surplus lenses are ok to get rid of?


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEO wrote:
Sjak wrote:
KEO wrote:
At some point time spent collecting and testing more lenses detracts from time spent using the lenses you already have to create the kind of images you want. I already have around 70 lenses; accumulating more isn't going to help me achieve my goals.

Right now I'm more concerned about figuring out lighting techniques and some other tricks to make the kind of art I have in mind.

That doesn't mean I don't love getting new lenses. I know how enjoyable it can be get a new one and try it out (and maybe take it apart and clean it).


For me, collecting lenses and camera's is mostly unrelated to my photography. Probably at least 75% of all my pictures from the past 6 month were taken with 1 lens (Jupiter-3) / 1 camera (M Monochrom)




I'd love to get a dedicated monochrome digital camera one day. Seems like a great idea for a product.


You don't need a dedicated mono digital camera.
The Fujifilm range has film emulations in the menu including with the use of yellow, red and green filters, and as the viewfinder is electronic you can see the effects immediately.
This occurs even if you are shooting in RAW.
Other camera manufacturers probably offer the same simulations but you are best with one that has an electronic viewfinder like the Fujifilm range (olympus etc as well )
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7OWBtDvG-nw/UNHtmNoA8-I/AAAAAAAAAVY/mVTeGDhDW-A/s1600/Fuji+Film+Simulations+(interior).jpg
Tom


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldhand wrote:


You don't need a dedicated mono digital camera.
The Fujifilm range has film emulations in the menu including with the use of yellow, red and green filters, and as the viewfinder is electronic you can see the effects immediately.
This occurs even if you are shooting in RAW.
Other camera manufacturers probably offer the same simulations but you are best with one that has an electronic viewfinder like the Fujifilm range (olympus etc as well )
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7OWBtDvG-nw/UNHtmNoA8-I/AAAAAAAAAVY/mVTeGDhDW-A/s1600/Fuji+Film+Simulations+(interior).jpg
Tom
Of course, nobody needs a mono-camera, or a camera at all.

But a dedicated mono-camera is not the same as some in-camera jpg-settings Smile

Besides, for learning to shoot mono (regardless of camera), personally I have a different view: I'd recommend an optical viewfinder so you learn to see the light/dark contrast without any help. In the beginning it can be challenging, but after a short time, we learn to discern scenes that "work" in mono without needing the camera.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Shooting in B&W is different to shooting in colour. A different mind set is needed.

BTW, I have too much lenses now. It will be the time for me to sell something I don't keep.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An important advantage of using a color camera to photograph B & W is that you can experiment with multiple virtual filters AFTER the photo is taken: red, orange, yellow, green, etc. With a monochrome camera, the type of filter has to be decided BEFORE the photo is taken.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sjak wrote:
Of course, nobody needs a mono-camera, or a camera at all.

But a dedicated mono-camera is not the same as some in-camera jpg-settings Smile

Besides, for learning to shoot mono (regardless of camera), personally I have a different view: I'd recommend an optical viewfinder so you learn to see the light/dark contrast without any help. In the beginning it can be challenging, but after a short time, we learn to discern scenes that "work" in mono without needing the camera.


The only effective difference between a dedicated B&W camera & a camera setting that gives B&W in the viewfinder, is with the dedicated camera you can't switch it to colour when the need arises. (Saving RAW +JPEG allows both after the event with a camera in B&W mode).

I prefer to shoot my monos with the camera in colour mode which forces me to see the light/dark just as an optical viewfinder would. Some of my friends use the monochrome viewfinder approach.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Law #1: Never Sell a Good Lens


Other interpretations of Law #1: Laugh 1

Only Sell a Good Lens (Zeiss)
A Lens is Always Better in Other's Hands (the envious)
A Good Lens for a Seller is a Bad Lens the Buyer Thinks is Good (eBay)


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DConvert wrote:

The only effective difference between a dedicated B&W camera & a camera setting that gives B&W in the viewfinder, is with the dedicated camera you can't switch it to colour when the need arises.
There's other differences, also technical ones, some of these I already mentioned. But it's totally OK if some people want a real mono-cam, and others don't Like 1 small

As for lenses, I just recall that I recently gave some away. Is that even allowed under the Lens Laws? Surprised


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for lenses, I just recall that I recently gave some away. Is that even allowed under the Lens Laws? Surprised[/quote]

I couldn't find anything regarding this issue, so we've got a real problem in here..... Thank You Dog


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sjak wrote:
DConvert wrote:

The only effective difference between a dedicated B&W camera & a camera setting that gives B&W in the viewfinder, is with the dedicated camera you can't switch it to colour when the need arises.
There's other differences, also technical ones, some of these I already mentioned. But it's totally OK if some people want a real mono-cam, and others don't Like 1 small

As for lenses, I just recall that I recently gave some away. Is that even allowed under the Lens Laws? Surprised


Yes, there are some technical differences with the sensor filters of dedicated monochrome digital cameras. I'd think about getting one if I were willing to give up color entirely, but I'm not. Smile

Black and white can reveal a lot about lenses. It reveals characteristics that are difficult to see in color.

I've given away a couple of lenses too. My friend's 11-year-old daughter got interested in film cameras, so I gave her an old Gaf with an Industar-50 screwed on. Strange combination, but I figured the Industar-50 is cheap, light, cute, and one of the hardest lenses to break.

Watching her face as her mother and I tried to explain film photography was very entertaining. When we started telling her about developing film in a chemical bath she thought for sure we were pulling her leg!


PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Freidrich lens is interesting. I suspect a lot of house brand lenses for German cameras in the 1920s-30s (Zeiss "Novar" for instance) came from there, and similar small makers. I assume its a triplet, which is typical for the type of camera, and the "anastigmat" designation, but it may not be.

The four element jobs which are also fairly common were "doppelanastigmat". These were four in four, not Tessars.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Mike's Seven Laws of Lenses... Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
First Never sell a good lens.

Second When evaluating lenses, look at the pictures, not at the lens.
The Leica Lens Designer's Precept (apocryphal): The only way to test a lens is to use it for a year. Everything else is a shortcut.

Third You can make successful photographs with any lens, no matter how bad.
...And The corollary to the Third Law: You can make terrible photographs with any lens, no matter how good.

Fourth You get no extra credit for using a technically excellent lens.
Ctein's Axiom: If you can't see it, it doesn't count.

Fifth You can never spend too much money on a lens.
Corollary to the Fifth Law: If a lens works for you, it doesn't matter how little you spent for it or how little it might be esteemed by others, it's still the right lens.

Sixth The proper number of lenses to own is the intersection between the sets "all the lenses you need" and "the lowest possible number."
(Another way to say this is "enough but no more.")

Seventh All lenses give their gifts.

((from MIKE JOHNSON's Blog))


True words Thank you! Like 1 small