Linhof Super Technika vs Topcon Horseman?

LittleAlex

I am looking for the rangefinder 6x7 for the portrait sessions. Something with 180mm or 150mm lens. I discovered, that there are very suitable systems for that purpose: Linhof Super Technika, and Topcon Horseman.

However, Linhof is generally mush more expensive, then Horseman. So, I wonder whether it is really worthy to be paid much? Or the Horseman system will be quite enough?

dan_ · Expire: 2016-12-19

I have no experience with Horseman but I have 3 6x9 Linhofs, including a Super Technica. Linhofs are very well engineered, a sort of Leica of the large format. When buying a Linhof you must consider not only the price of the camera but the price of the accessories you'll need, too. And this increases the price you have to pay quite much. Is the price worth it? Well, IMO, this very much depends on what you intend to do with the camera. The Linhof system is, generally, more extended and more capable than most other LF systems in most situations, but it has its limitations.

If your intention is to use it as a RF portrait camera you must consider some facts:
- The RF viewfinder is quite small, intended mostly for focusing, and you'll need to buy the additional external viewfinder. This is a very nice viewfinder (I have one), bright, with a large image, with parallax correction and covering most usual FLs, but is expensive. A cheaper alternative is the external Wire Finder (parallax corrected, as well).
- In order to use a lens on Linhof with the coupled RF you must have a matching cam. Therefore you must buy a camera with matching lenses from the beginning. Very few of the Linhofs on sell come with matching lenses and they are quite expensive. To add a lens to your camera's RF you must buy a blanc 3-cams-disk and have it drilled specially for your lens. It is expensive and very few people still know how to do it.
- Only lenses in shutter can be used.
- The camera is quite heavy. You'll need a Linhof handgrip to use it hand-held.

Horseman has its limitations, some similar to the ones above, as well. A nice addition to a 6x9 Horseman is the optional back extender that allows your horseman to become a 4x5 camera. It is quite unique between the 6x9 cameras.

If I'll want a camera for RF portraits I'll probably not chose a Linhof or a Horseman, but a Graflex Speed Graphic. It was a press camera and therefore easier to use hand-heled. It is much lighter and it has a focal-plane shutter allowing you to mount lenses without shutter, even old projection lenses. And the RF cams are much easier to adapt for any lens. You'll probably still need an external Linhof viewfinder for portraits. Their Roll-Film holders are not considered very reliable, but you may use other brands. I'll use it with a Grafmatic film holder (a lovely engineered film holder for 6 sheets of film), for the best possible film flatness.

There are many other options you could consider, from Plaubel, Mamiya, Fuji.

But if your goal is a 6x7 RF portrait camera your best option is, IMO, a Koni-Omega Rapid 100 camera (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNFvbXn6dPY ). I had 2 of them, as well. They come with 3 beautiful, coupled lenses (180mm included) and they are lighter and cheaper than the above. Their film advance system is unique, very fast and with very good film flatness. The RF image is quite large and you can adjust the RF yourself quite easy if needed(I did it with my KOs). One drawback is that many of them have, due to their age, a dimmed image in the RF. If you are lucky to find one without dimmed-image RF you are done, otherwise a Linhof external viewfinder, again, will help. KO was considered a wedding camera in its time and this says much about its portrait capabilities.

I hope this helps you to make your choice, Alex.

LittleAlex · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:00 pm Post subject:

dan_ · Expire: 2016-12-19

Yes, Technika 70 has a larger, vertical viewfinder and therefore is better for portraits. It has marks for 95/100mm and 180mm lenses, as you wanted. The camera is heavy and bulky, you'll need a handgrip for it (at least I needed).
One of my 3 Linhofs is a Techika 70 (the 3-rd is a Technikardan) but, unfortunately, it's not in a working order anymore... Good luck with your acquisition.

LittleAlex · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:10 pm Post subject:

LittleAlex · Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:38 pm Post subject:

Well, have obtained from Ebay that set for my future portrait (and maybe some other) purposes:

"Linhof Technika 70 kit - including a 80mm f2.8 Schneider-Kreuznach Xenotar, 65mm f3.5 Mamiya, and 180mm f5.6 Topcor. The camera was CLA'ed and any broken plastic pieces or parts likely to break (some original parts were notable for using poor-quality plastic) have been replaced with 3D-printed, laser-sintered Nylon, to exact dimensions. This mainly includes the rangefinder cover and part of the ground glass holder. All lenses and shutters are in great condition; the 180mm Topcor and 65mm Mamiya are both matched to the rangefinder with a custom-ground cam. The rangefinder, film back, tilt and shift movements work perfectly. The bellows are in great condition and light-tight. The handle attaches firmly to the body and has an integrated shutter release usable on any LF or MF lens with a typical threaded shutter release. The hardcase for this camera is included!"

LittleAlex · Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:11 pm Post subject:

I wonder whether anybody does perchance have in possession that book in file:

https://learncamerarepair.com/product.php?product=1152

They ask for downloading of it $1. It is not too much, of course. The problem is that it is prohibited today to send from the Ukraine any amount of money to the foreign countries, unfortunately. So, I will be very thankful, if somebody would send me the file.

rmd44 · Joined: 21 Jun 2011 Posts: 7

https://drive.google.com/.../19LpQBvVDCaHRevOR4xt.../view...

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

rmd44 · Joined: 21 Jun 2011 Posts: 7

Apologies. I picked this link up from the camera repair facebook page - I have no personal interest,
and have no idea why the pasted link doesn't work.

Computers eh !!

you could go to my original source and try :

https://www.facebook.com/groups/360490091319202/search?q=linhof

Scroll down to Christopher Cox and click on this link in his post which does
seem to work and opens up up quite a large pdf of the maintenance manual.

LittleAlex · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:11 pm Post subject:

LittleAlex · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:20 pm Post subject:

What is the most wonderful, it is that the 180mm Topcor is completely coherent with the ringer finder. Even at the full opening. And it was the main reason I looked for that camera. To make with it the candid portraits.

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

Overflowing Wonderful!

LittleAlex · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 7:38 am Post subject:

For the comparison, there is the same subject, taken with 80mm f2.8 Schneider-Kreuznach Xenotar, but closed to 8.0 (I used the guess method for the distance, by the scale for the lens, which I created preliminary by means of the laser tape-measure, and glued to camera).

LittleAlex · Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 9:50 pm Post subject:

Macro photo with using of the swing frame (both standards)

80mm f2.8 Schneider-Kreuznach Xenotar, f/16

There is the scan file in its full resolution:

https://i.ibb.co/qyPHkrX/1.jpg

There is the color scan of the negative in full resolution

https://i.ibb.co/q16fr03/2-min.jpg

LittleAlex · Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:04 pm Post subject:

I discovered, that the rangefinder works with 180mm lens only till 3.5 meters. So, it means that it is possible to do with the rangefinder only the “knee portraits”. Which is not good at all. And looks completely strange, because the lens goes much beyond from that position.

Completely the same problem I discovered also with Koni-Omega 180mm F4.5 Hexanon telephoto lens on the Koni Omega 6x7cm Rangefinder. However there is the justifying limitation of helicoids proceeding of course.

So, my idea to make the candid portraits came to be the very limited on that format.

LittleAlex · Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:36 pm Post subject:

There suddenly came for my consideration the very involving kit with the Horseman VH-R “as completely new” for the more then very affordable price.

So, I didn’t withstand the temptation, and obtained it, to compare with the Linhof Technika 70 camera.

To say the truth, from the very first impression I have liked Horseman much more than Linhof. Starting from the general build of the camera and finishing, the weight of it (much lighter), convenience and even the clearness of the viewfinder windows. Only one advantage of the Linhof is that it has combined range-finder.

Also, there came in the pack 150mm lens with cum. And I discovered, that it is possible to do with the range-finder even full face portraits! Which is exactly what I was looking for!

There were three only 6x9 backs. Fortunately I have in my storage Mamiya RGB 6x7 back, which precisely fits the Horseman camera.

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

LittleAlex · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 9:00 pm Post subject:

I finished adjustment of the rangefinder for Horseman VH-R. And it had not been easy task. Because commonly the adjusting screw is located nearly one of the rangefinder windows, at the top of the camera. But with that camera there is no one here! Fortunately I discovered an article, where the process of adjustment of the rangefinder for that camera is very detailed:

https://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/Horseman/index.html

The adjusting screw is located at the bottom of the body!

I adjusted it for 150mm Horsemen lens. And discovered, that it works well also for my Heliar 4.5/150mm!

I didn’t yet explored how it is for for Mamiya-Sekor SF C 150mm f4.0 (I need the proper Lens Board for it yet), but I hope it will work with it also.

Also it is slight hope that it also will work and for my Goerz Frontar 14cm 9.0 Achromatic lens with the proper shutter.

http://forum.mflenses.com/goerz-frontar-14cm-9-0-landschaftslinse-t67687.html

It will give to me the proper abundance of tools for the portraits. Which was the main purpose for all that trouble.

LittleAlex · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 4:12 pm Post subject:

The addition - did try today Goerz Frontar 14cm 9.0 Achromatic lens with the rangefinder and the cum for 150mm lens upon Horseman VH-R.

No way unfortunately. Rolling Eyes

So - only for the landscapes, and by the matte screen for portraiture.

LittleAlex · Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:42 pm Post subject:

Well, did try Mamiya-Sekor SF C 150mm f4.0 with my Horseman VH-R, using cum for 150mm lens.

Unfortunately, the rangefinder didn't cohere well with the lens. It means that again it might be used only with the mate screen.

So, I see that the good congruence of the rangefinder with the Heliar 4.5/150mm was rather the lucky exception.

LittleAlex · Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:58 am Post subject:

On the go with my baby: