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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 3320
Location: Sitges, (Spain)
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 Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Light metering & MF lenses |
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Hi!
Today I've been reviewing my last shots, (all of them with manual lenses) and I see a similar pattern on all of them: Too exposed.
I come to the Veijo site quite often, (since we both got the same camera), but I cannot get pictures similar to those nice saturated and well light balanced ones, using some of the same lenses. (I must admit that I came to the MF world because one day I reached the Veijo site and got fascinated!).
Since I use Av in my camera (350D) the light metering is done automatically.
My camera has three light metering modes: Global average, (the one that I use), average around the center, and short circle in the center.
From the three strategies of light metering I can choose, I always set "global average" of the whole frame.
Not sure if this is the right way to measure light with MF lenses, or how should I compensate it.
So if any kind soul has some light  to shed on this issue, I'd be highly grateful.
Best regards,
Jes.
_________________
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, several Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9, SD10, Oly E-400, EOS 30D
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Moskva
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, Pentax SF7, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 25, Zorki-4, Bessa-R, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Minox 35 ML, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot 520, SONY DSC-V1, Nikon 5200, Pana GF1, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530
Life is that boring wasted time in between two pictures |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 30509
Location: Budapest,Hungary
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Watch out immediately right after shoot on back LCD, compensate EV steps if necessary. If doesn't help in some situation turn your camera into full manual mode and after a few test shoot you can find the right settings. Do you use any focusing screen ? If yes always need to calibrate the light meter for every aperture set except under F2, this is my experience with Olympus-E1+Katz Eye split screen.
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Panasonic G-1
Konica 4/21,2.8/24,2/35,1.8/40,1.7/50,1.8/85,2.8/100,3.2/135,3,5/200,4.5/300,4,5/400
Konica FC-1,FT-1,FP,FM,Pearl,Pear III,Koni-Omega
Please visit my Ebay shop
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Borges
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 643
Location: Moers, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I always make some "calibration" shots to get the needed exposure compensation. Usually from -1/3 with open aperture up to -1 at f8 on most lenses. And if I remember correct, only one light metering method works if using an adapter without chip. But I didn't find it now...
Perhaps this link has some explanations in general:
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-manual-lenses/
Michael
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list of lenses:
Helios 44 (many different versions), Jupiter-9 , Jupiter 21M, Jupiter 37AM, Mir-1W, Mir-1V, Mir-10A, Mir-47M, Zenitar Fisheye, Tair 11-2, Industar 50-2 and a few more ...
Our wedding photography blog:
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bob955i
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 2164
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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If it's convenient, press that old Sixon into service and use your camera on full manual Jesito.
Takes any uncertainty right out of the equation.....
And if you use filters, I've got a little ready reckoner I created, and have been meaning to post, that tells you what stops to add for the most commonly used filters. |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 11261
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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What I do when I don't know a lens (and its behaviour) well, is to underexpose at 1/3 and shoot in RAW (in order to compensate later). That'll normally do the trick...
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Cheers, Carsten |"KAPCTEH" | "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?
Cams in use: EOS 5D, EOS 40D, EF/M, EOS 300, Spotmatic SPII, EXA 1c, Rollei 35XF, Minox 35 GL, Yashica Electro 35 GS, FED-3b, Kodak Retina Ia and some others...
Lenses in use: Asahi Pentax: 3.5/35;1.4/50;1.7/50;2.8/105;3.5/135 | Former GDR: CZJ Flek 4/20; CZJ 2/50,2.8/50; Meyer 1.9/58; CZJ 4/135 | Leica: Summicron 2.0/50; Elmar 4/180 | Mamiya: 1.8/55 | Nikkor: 2.8/24;1.4/50;1.2/55;1.8/85; | West German: Ludwig 2.9/50; Steinheil 2.8/35, 2.8/85; Will 4.5/105; Zeiss 4.5/105; Schneider 4/28, 3.5/135; Zeiss 4/135; Schacht 4.5/135; Enna 4.5/240 | Olympus: 1.4/50; | Rikenon: 35-70 | Rollei: 1.8/50, 80-200 | Russian: Peleng 3.5/8; Zenitar 2.8/16; MIR 2/35; Volna 2.8/50; Industar 3.5/50; Industar 3.5/5cm; Helios 2/58; Jupiter 2/85; Jupiter 3.5/135; RF: Jupiter 2.8/35; Jupiter 2/50 | Soligor: 28-105;35-200;60-300;70-220 | Tamron: 2.5/28;2.5/135; 8/500 | Tokina: 28-85; 28-105 | Vivitar: 3.5/17;2/28;2.5/28 | Yashica: 2/5cm |
Green is the gear I use the most. More? http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65
AF-lenses: Canon: 1.8/50 | Sigma: 1.8/24; 15-30; 28-105; 18-125 OS | Tokina: 12-24; 24-200; 28-70 | Tamron 80-210 | http://lucispictor.weebly.com/ |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 3320
Location: Sitges, (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Attila wrote: | | Watch out immediately right after shoot on back LCD, compensate EV steps if necessary. If doesn't help in some situation turn your camera into full manual mode and after a few test shoot you can find the right settings. Do you use any focusing screen ? If yes always need to calibrate the light meter for every aperture set except under F2, this is my experience with Olympus-E1+Katz Eye split screen. |
Hi Attila,
Thanks for your answer.
I use to look at the LCD screen after each shot, but my sight is not very good and the screen is too little... Everything seems okay there, but at home, with the big LCD screen at the PC, things change a lot. On the other hand, sunlight here is very intense, I can barely see the LCD screen during the sunlight hours.
Does your camera allow for calibration of the light meter in such way?... I should take a look to the Olympus the next time I think in buying a camera body...
Does the Olympus have different light metering modes?
Best regards,
Jes.
_________________
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, several Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9, SD10, Oly E-400, EOS 30D
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Moskva
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, Pentax SF7, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 25, Zorki-4, Bessa-R, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Minox 35 ML, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot 520, SONY DSC-V1, Nikon 5200, Pana GF1, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530
Life is that boring wasted time in between two pictures |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 30509
Location: Budapest,Hungary
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, it has three different mode. But mostly I use only one mode.I not recommend to buy Olympus E-500, E-300 they have same crappy black LCD than EOS-350D has. Olympus E-1 not any more in production. I suppose the best buy now Canon 400D , this is Orio suggestion and I agree with him. To use lot of manual lenses we have only two option Olympus or Canon.
_________________
Panasonic G-1
Konica 4/21,2.8/24,2/35,1.8/40,1.7/50,1.8/85,2.8/100,3.2/135,3,5/200,4.5/300,4,5/400
Konica FC-1,FT-1,FP,FM,Pearl,Pear III,Koni-Omega
Please visit my Ebay shop
and my company site
http://webdesign-logo.com
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 3320
Location: Sitges, (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Borges wrote: | I always make some "calibration" shots to get the needed exposure compensation. Usually from -1/3 with open aperture up to -1 at f8 on most lenses. And if I remember correct, only one light metering method works if using an adapter without chip. But I didn't find it now...
Perhaps this link has some explanations in general:
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-manual-lenses/
Michael |
Hi Michael, many thanks for the pointer, it's very clarifying. I'll try to find your clue on metering methods, and look for info. That could justify the behavior of my camera, I use adaptors without any chip.
Best regards,
Jes.
_________________
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, several Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9, SD10, Oly E-400, EOS 30D
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Moskva
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, Pentax SF7, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 25, Zorki-4, Bessa-R, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Minox 35 ML, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot 520, SONY DSC-V1, Nikon 5200, Pana GF1, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530
Life is that boring wasted time in between two pictures |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 3320
Location: Sitges, (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| bob955i wrote: | If it's convenient, press that old Sixon into service and use your camera on full manual Jesito.
Takes any uncertainty right out of the equation.....
And if you use filters, I've got a little ready reckoner I created, and have been meaning to post, that tells you what stops to add for the most commonly used filters. |
Yes, that's what I want to do. Unfortunately there is a contact problem on the battery case, and I should fix it prior using it... And afterwards learn again how does it work!.
At this time I'm not using filters at all (other than the common UV/SKY ones to protect the lenses), but I'm seriously considering to buy a Cokin adapter. There are many interesting filters to use.
Best regards,
Jes.
_________________
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, several Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9, SD10, Oly E-400, EOS 30D
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Moskva
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, Pentax SF7, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 25, Zorki-4, Bessa-R, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Minox 35 ML, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot 520, SONY DSC-V1, Nikon 5200, Pana GF1, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530
Life is that boring wasted time in between two pictures |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 3320
Location: Sitges, (Spain)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LucisPictor wrote: | | What I do when I don't know a lens (and its behaviour) well, is to underexpose at 1/3 and shoot in RAW (in order to compensate later). That'll normally do the trick... |
Hi Carsten,
That's a good idea, I always shot in RAW, so I'll underxpose to try. But I'd like to have an appropiate metering, if possible. RAW shooting has given me some surprises, I tried to do light bracketing but at the end there was only one picture per shot, not three..
Thanks for your comment!
Best regards,
Jes.
_________________
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, several Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9, SD10, Oly E-400, EOS 30D
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Moskva
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, Pentax SF7, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 25, Zorki-4, Bessa-R, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Minox 35 ML, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot 520, SONY DSC-V1, Nikon 5200, Pana GF1, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530
Life is that boring wasted time in between two pictures |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 30509
Location: Budapest,Hungary
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Raw processing take time of volume pictures, my experience on shoot in sunny environment better to make a bit dark and it will perfect on display.
_________________
Panasonic G-1
Konica 4/21,2.8/24,2/35,1.8/40,1.7/50,1.8/85,2.8/100,3.2/135,3,5/200,4.5/300,4,5/400
Konica FC-1,FT-1,FP,FM,Pearl,Pear III,Koni-Omega
Please visit my Ebay shop
and my company site
http://webdesign-logo.com
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 19366
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesito wrote: | | LucisPictor wrote: | | What I do when I don't know a lens (and its behaviour) well, is to underexpose at 1/3 and shoot in RAW (in order to compensate later). That'll normally do the trick... |
Hi Carsten,
That's a good idea, I always shot in RAW, so I'll underxpose to try. |
Guys, be careful, don't forget that the dynamic range in the digital cameras is at it's best in the highlights, and very low in the low lights.
So every stop that you underexpose, you lose a part of the potential dynamic range of your digital camera - and your pictures will become flatter and noisier.
The ideal thing to do when a landscape has a lot of highlights and shadows, is to find a point where the sunlight hits, and place there a grey cardboard, or the palm of your hand, and measure that way using a hand meter (or you can also use your camera meter if it has spot or semispot metering ability).
By measuring a medium grey in the sunlight, you will ensure that you will obtain the proper exposure in the highlights without burning them and at the same time, without wasting dynamic range with undiscriminated underexposure.
This will give you the best use of the dynamic range of your camera.
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Ave atque vale
Orio
Last edited by Orio on Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 6542
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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I think you have histogram on the 350D  it's the way to go |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 19366
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| poilu wrote: | | I think you have histogram on the 350D it's the way to go |
Yes of course but it doesn't hurt to get used to do metering properly for the time you will have to use that old Pentacon 6 or Nikon FM2 
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Ave atque vale
Orio |
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lahnet
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Orio wrote: | | poilu wrote: | | I think you have histogram on the 350D it's the way to go |
Yes of course but it doesn't hurt to get used to do metering properly |
I agree.
I use a Sony A100 mostly in A program. To be sure to get the best possible light metering, I use the AEL button. The AEL is programmed as spot metering.
I always shoot i RAW i case I need to correct expose or W/B a little. |
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