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Lens Turbo II on full frame
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:40 pm    Post subject: Lens Turbo II on full frame Reply with quote
Not so long ago I saw a picture on Flickr, according to the description made with a Samyang 85/1.4 on a Lens Turbo II, attached to a Sony A7something. Result was an image equivalent to approximately 62mm f/1. I tried to contact the photographer, but no response.
Does anybody know if this is actually possible? Can a Lens Turbo II project a larger than full frame image circle onto a full frame sensor? If nobody knows I'm probably willing to buy one and try it out.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I doubt the Lens Turbo II can project an image cover 35mm full frame without dark corners.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Found the image of interest:
https://flic.kr/p/2eSgGaJ


PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
2048/1490~=1.37 which is not the native aspect ratio 3/2=1.5 .


PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
2048/1490~=1.37 which is not the native aspect ratio 3/2=1.5 .


True. Still nice results.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The image circle will be at least ~23.5mmx23.5mm on the version II. The rest are bonus.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not the Lens Turbo II, but ProfHankD in 2015 tested what appears to be the original Zhongyi Lens Turbo on full frame https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3699113

He sadly never tested any longer focal length lenses.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
eggplant wrote:
Not the Lens Turbo II, but ProfHankD in 2015 tested what appears to be the original Zhongyi Lens Turbo on full frame https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3699113

He sadly never tested any longer focal length lenses.


Thanks, that’s useful!


PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting. I'd love to see my Samyang 1.4/35mm tested.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It wasn't simply using the A7 in crop mode?


PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:
It wasn't simply using the A7 in crop mode?


Field of view seems wider than 85mm.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I won't consider using a focal reducer + full frame camera. A better solution will be a GFX 50 or 100. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
I won't consider using a focal reducer + full frame camera. A better solution will be a GFX 50 or 100. Wink


Sure, I'm sure my family can survive one month one dry rice only Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
I won't consider using a focal reducer + full frame camera. A better solution will be a GFX 50 or 100. Wink


Sure, I'm sure my family can survive one month one dry rice only Smile

Laugh 1

A used 50R cost around $2,000 which I am planning to buy one recently. May be I will buy a used 100S instead if my friend are willing to share the cost and the camera.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
I won't consider using a focal reducer + full frame camera. A better solution will be a GFX 50 or 100. Wink

I believe there are reducers to fit medium format lenses onto FF bodies. None in the right mount for any of my MF or LF lenses, but worth considering after that elusive lottery jackpot win.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
I won't consider using a focal reducer + full frame camera. A better solution will be a GFX 50 or 100. Wink

I believe there are reducers to fit medium format lenses onto FF bodies. None in the right mount for any of my MF or LF lenses, but worth considering after that elusive lottery jackpot win.

Yes. It will be good for these who have a nice set of medium format lenses. Such adapter is not an option for me as most of my collections are 35mm full frame lens.



PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
they crop badly, unless you want that, you achieve nothing apart from a stop of seed


PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
DConvert wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
I won't consider using a focal reducer + full frame camera. A better solution will be a GFX 50 or 100. Wink

I believe there are reducers to fit medium format lenses onto FF bodies. None in the right mount for any of my MF or LF lenses, but worth considering after that elusive lottery jackpot win.

Yes. It will be good for these who have a nice set of medium format lenses. Such adapter is not an option for me as most of my collections are 35mm full frame lens.

pic


This one is not easy to find due to use of term "large format" to describe larger than full-frame...very nearly covers GFX sensor...
https://kipon.com/baveyes-mfx0-8-midformat-to-largeformat/


PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not sure if I got this right, but to me it sounds like "gain some, lose some". Essentially, reducing the 85mm lens to 60mm with a lens turbo creates a brighter image on the sensor in the first place. But in the same way, the full frame sensor is effectively reduced to something like the size of APS-C because the slimmer cone of light from the lens turbo doesn´t cover the sensor fully anymore (as discussed above). Thus you require the one stop you won in the first step, to achieve the same DOF on the smaller remaining sensor surface.

So probably, a similar result could have been achieved with some 55mm f1.2 Zuiko or 57mm f1.2 Hexanon (or else comparable), but still retaining the benefit of the full resolution of the sensor.

On the other hand, I admire the creative idea to crank those things together and get a beautiful pic out of it, so why not? Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Lens Turbo II on full frame Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
Not so long ago I saw a picture on Flickr, according to the description made with a Samyang 85/1.4 on a Lens Turbo II, attached to a Sony A7something. Result was an image equivalent to approximately 62mm f/1. I tried to contact the photographer, but no response.
Does anybody know if this is actually possible? Can a Lens Turbo II project a larger than full frame image circle onto a full frame sensor? If nobody knows I'm probably willing to buy one and try it out.


Is it possible? I have not thought about it in depth, but yes it should be possible. However, you would have to use lenses with a larger image circle like medium format or large format for a 35mm sensor.

However, based on the description that is not what happened. The Samyang 85/1.4 is a full frame lens. Putting that on a speed booster is 85 x .73 = 62 mm and one extra stop making it f/1. Either that Sony was a crop camera, or he used it in crop mode if that is a feature. I am not aware of any speed booster made for full frame currently. Specifically, the Lens Turbo II is designed for crop sensors only. No full frame version.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Lens Turbo II on full frame Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
Not so long ago I saw a picture on Flickr, according to the description made with a Samyang 85/1.4 on a Lens Turbo II, attached to a Sony A7something. Result was an image equivalent to approximately 62mm f/1. I tried to contact the photographer, but no response.
Does anybody know if this is actually possible? Can a Lens Turbo II project a larger than full frame image circle onto a full frame sensor? If nobody knows I'm probably willing to buy one and try it out.


Is it possible? I have not thought about it in depth, but yes it should be possible. However, you would have to use lenses with a larger image circle like medium format or large format for a 35mm sensor.

However, based on the description that is not what happened. The Samyang 85/1.4 is a full frame lens. Putting that on a speed booster is 85 x .73 = 62 mm and one extra stop making it f/1. Either that Sony was a crop camera, or he used it in crop mode if that is a feature. I am not aware of any speed booster made for full frame currently. Specifically, the Lens Turbo II is designed for crop sensors only. No full frame version.


Lens can have considerably more coverage than the format they are designed to be used on, I see no reason that couldn't be the case with focal reducers too - especially if baffles are removed.
So if the Samyang 85 has spare coverage & the reducer can make use of that then the image circle on FF could be significantly more than APSC. I very much doubt it would cover FF, but it could be cropped in post to get more than the APSC image.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am using the LT II with the Canon 85/1.2 in FF mode on 7r2. There is a bit of vignette, which is almost entirely the fault of the reducer, not the lens (the lens covers GFX, which is however smaller than a resulting FF x .7 sensor would be).
You still gain quite a bit of additional angle of view, though! Paired with the separation, which of course stays the same, you indeed get something like a 6o mm f/o.something.

Allegedly, the Metabones covers slightly more. I tested one with a Sigma 85/1.4 once, and the difference was there, but small.

If you're interested, my list shows which lenses cover GFX or FF + reducer to what extent: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uxvvpxJ9QVFFyh0pW2rs9KBmUW9vlh-d-VnbcLDCTn8/edit?usp=share_link

If you work in a non-full frame format (1:1, 1:3 etc), this is a very viable option!


Using MF lenses is less relevant, since none match the speed of FF - even a fast 8o mm MF only equals a FF 5o/1.4ish
This holds true even on GFX - you CAN adapt an 8o/2 MF lens (IF you find the right reducer, indeed). Or you can have an 85/1.2 or 1.4 which covers the full GFX format.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here we go for GFX users with a collection of Medium Format lenses!: https://kipon.com/kipon-start-to-accept-preorder-for-m645-gfx-e-electronic-adapters/



PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kathala wrote:
I am using the LT II with the Canon 85/1.2 in FF mode on 7r2. There is a bit of vignette, which is almost entirely the fault of the reducer, not the lens (the lens covers GFX, which is however smaller than a resulting FF x .7 sensor would be).
You still gain quite a bit of additional angle of view, though! Paired with the separation, which of course stays the same, you indeed get something like a 6o mm f/o.something.

Allegedly, the Metabones covers slightly more. I tested one with a Sigma 85/1.4 once, and the difference was there, but small.

If you're interested, my list shows which lenses cover GFX or FF + reducer to what extent: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uxvvpxJ9QVFFyh0pW2rs9KBmUW9vlh-d-VnbcLDCTn8/edit?usp=share_link

If you work in a non-full frame format (1:1, 1:3 etc), this is a very viable option!


Using MF lenses is less relevant, since none match the speed of FF - even a fast 8o mm MF only equals a FF 5o/1.4ish
This holds true even on GFX - you CAN adapt an 8o/2 MF lens (IF you find the right reducer, indeed). Or you can have an 85/1.2 or 1.4 which covers the full GFX format.


Thanks, very useful. Apparently the vignetting is not as bad as you would think.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kathala wrote:
If you're interested, my list shows which lenses cover GFX or FF + reducer to what extent: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uxvvpxJ9QVFFyh0pW2rs9KBmUW9vlh-d-VnbcLDCTn8/edit?usp=share_link


This is very useful list, thanks. Correct me if wrong but according to your data 2/5o KMZ Jupiter-8 could be used even of 6x6 film camera (if close enough to film of course)?
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