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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 8:50 am Post subject: KIRON 2/28mm TWO VERY DIFFERENT MODELS |
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Pancolart wrote:
I finally got into degreasing few aperture stuck samples i acquired over years. First two went easily. But next two i could not unscrew front system. Tortured my hand (again) doing it but of no success. Under better inspection totally different internal mechanics appeared.
There are two version: one with very short focus throw, other with a long one. Besides: double focusing! And bit larger rear opening. This version is quite sophisticated.
See images:
_________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:12 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
Interesting. Your long throw copy seems to be from 1980. My copy from 81 has the short throw. Is your short throw copy also younger? Then it is probably a cost cutting measure.
I did an ebay search. Anything from the seventies has the longer throw most 1980 models as well (I found one that didn't) everything from 81 on has the shorter throw. They must have changed the design in 1980. https://www.ebay.nl/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=vivitar+28mm+%28f2%2C%221%3A2%22%29+-%222.8%22+-%222.5%22&_sacat=3323&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=vivitar+28mm+f2+-%222.8%22&_osacat=3323&_sop=15
If you replace Vivitar with Kiron you see only short throw copies, so it is likely Kiron didn't sell it under their own brand until the eighties. I can find some Panagor versions as well, both short throw from 83. _________________ pentaxian |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Interesting, but my Vivitar is long-throw. Might be cost cutting but also aperture (and glass) is double exposed to grease evaporation / leak from focusing helicoids in long throw version. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1301 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 11:38 am Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
Interesting - how do these versions compare with the ones I dissassembled here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/114-maintenance-repair-articles/391582-kiron-vivitar-28mm-f2-24mm-f2-sticky-iris-fix.html _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock...
Last edited by marcusBMG on Thu May 12, 2022 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It is likely that neither of those lenses was made by Kiron, they look nothing like the Kiron 2/28, aperture ring turns in the wrong direction, barrel is much shorter, lettering totally different, nothing about those two lenses says Kiron, they are probably/possibly made by Cosina. .
This is the Kiron 2/28:
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
They are FD mount so they emulate Canon in aperture direction. Serial starts with 22 so Kino/Kiron. No doubt about that _________________ pentaxian |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1301 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
Robin Parmar lists 3 PK mount 22xxx serial 28-2's and one M42 mount 22xxxx 28-2 in his blog:
http://photografica.robinparmar.com/vivitar.html
He doesn't list a PKA mount one, mine is a kiron nameplate. The vivs are differentiated first by the nameplate, but there can be some other differences. So there were changes. Browsing pics online vivs have the green distance scale numbers and look like the ones Pancolart has disassembled. The kirons have blue numbers.
PK mount viv, this is a K13 in RP's list:
And my PKA mount kiron:
_________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock...
Last edited by marcusBMG on Thu May 12, 2022 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There's good info and pictures here, it mentions there are variations in the build of these lenses:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/114-maintenance-repair-articles/391582-kiron-vivitar-28mm-f2-24mm-f2-sticky-iris-fix.html _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Actually quite similar with distinctive CANON FD complicated rear. Putting it back is a little adventure, three variables must match . _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The variation in mechanics might indicate that there isn't a single manufacturer and Vivitar sourced them from verious companies. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1251 Location: Kent, UK
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
The die-cast finish on that ring with helicoid key in the first image has budget-tooling & machining written all over it! They didn't even remove the flashing around the ejector pin marks!?
_________________ Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
Almost forgot. On my search for different versions I encountered this:
_________________ pentaxian |
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vivaldibow
Joined: 23 Jun 2018 Posts: 835
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 3:25 am Post subject: |
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vivaldibow wrote:
Interesting! I only know there are MC and non MC versions. But I never really acquire the MC version, kind of uncommon. |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:14 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
It is not uncommon all of the newer versions not marked auto-wide angle but wide angle are marked mc. Probably both have mc and there just wasn't enough room for it on the name ring so they dropped the "auto" part. About time too because auto signifies it is not a preset or manual aperture lens which no lens had been for a generation by the early eighties. _________________ pentaxian |
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Alsatian2017
Joined: 05 Mar 2018 Posts: 237
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 11:38 am Post subject: Re: KIRON 2/28mm TWO VERY DIFFERENT MODELS |
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Alsatian2017 wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
I finally got into degreasing few aperture stuck samples i acquired over years. First two went easily. But next two i could not unscrew front system. Tortured my hand (again) doing it but of no success. Under better inspection totally different internal mechanics appeared.
There are two version: one with very short focus throw, other with a long one. Besides: double focusing! And bit larger rear opening. This version is quite sophisticated.
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I've got a sample of the Vivitar 24 mm f/2 (Kiron made) which looks pretty much the same as your long focus-throw 28 mm f/2, including the engravings (red line for IR mark) and the interior construction with (which looks like a) floating elements front group. I guess that this quite sophisticated design was abandonned later on since in the reviews of that time I haven't found any mentionof "floating elements " or "double focusing". |
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Alsatian2017
Joined: 05 Mar 2018 Posts: 237
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 11:39 am Post subject: Re: KIRON 2/28mm TWO VERY DIFFERENT MODELS |
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Alsatian2017 wrote:
Alsatian2017 wrote: |
Pancolart wrote: |
I finally got into degreasing few aperture stuck samples i acquired over years. First two went easily. But next two i could not unscrew front system. Tortured my hand (again) doing it but of no success. Under better inspection totally different internal mechanics appeared.
There are two version: one with very short focus throw, other with a long one. Besides: double focusing! And bit larger rear opening. This version is quite sophisticated.
|
I've got a sample of the Vivitar 24 mm f/2 (Kiron made) which looks pretty much the same as your long focus-throw 28 mm f/2, including the engravings (red line for IR mark) and the interior construction with (which looks like a) floating elements front group. I guess that this quite sophisticated design was abandonned later on since in the reviews of that time I haven't found any mention of "floating elements " or "double focusing". |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
vivaldibow wrote: |
Interesting! I only know there are MC and non MC versions. But I never really acquire the MC version, kind of uncommon. |
I've seen many but never a non-MC F2.0. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 9:08 am Post subject: Re: KIRON 2/28mm TWO VERY DIFFERENT MODELS |
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Pancolart wrote:
Alsatian2017 wrote: |
Pancolart wrote: |
I finally got into degreasing few aperture stuck samples i acquired over years. First two went easily. But next two i could not unscrew front system. Tortured my hand (again) doing it but of no success. Under better inspection totally different internal mechanics appeared.
There are two version: one with very short focus throw, other with a long one. Besides: double focusing! And bit larger rear opening. This version is quite sophisticated.
|
I've got a sample of the Vivitar 24 mm f/2 (Kiron made) which looks pretty much the same as your long focus-throw 28 mm f/2, including the engravings (red line for IR mark) and the interior construction with (which looks like a) floating elements front group. I guess that this quite sophisticated design was abandonned later on since in the reviews of that time I haven't found any mentionof "floating elements " or "double focusing". |
I should have written floating elements and not double focusing (which is actually double helicoid). _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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vivaldibow
Joined: 23 Jun 2018 Posts: 835
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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vivaldibow wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
vivaldibow wrote: |
Interesting! I only know there are MC and non MC versions. But I never really acquire the MC version, kind of uncommon. |
I've seen many but never a non-MC F2.0. |
Probably in my window of observation of the one or two years, I saw more non mc than mc. The two copies I got are both non MC at that time, and I was so eager to find an MC version but couldn’t.
Now a quick search on eBay show both are common. |
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