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KIRON 2/28mm TWO VERY DIFFERENT MODELS
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 8:50 am    Post subject: KIRON 2/28mm TWO VERY DIFFERENT MODELS Reply with quote

I finally got into degreasing few aperture stuck samples i acquired over years. First two went easily. But next two i could not unscrew front system. Tortured my hand (again) doing it but of no success. Under better inspection totally different internal mechanics appeared.

There are two version: one with very short focus throw, other with a long one. Besides: double focusing! And bit larger rear opening. This version is quite sophisticated.

See images:






PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. Your long throw copy seems to be from 1980. My copy from 81 has the short throw. Is your short throw copy also younger? Then it is probably a cost cutting measure.

I did an ebay search. Anything from the seventies has the longer throw most 1980 models as well (I found one that didn't) everything from 81 on has the shorter throw. They must have changed the design in 1980. https://www.ebay.nl/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=vivitar+28mm+%28f2%2C%221%3A2%22%29+-%222.8%22+-%222.5%22&_sacat=3323&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=vivitar+28mm+f2+-%222.8%22&_osacat=3323&_sop=15

If you replace Vivitar with Kiron you see only short throw copies, so it is likely Kiron didn't sell it under their own brand until the eighties. I can find some Panagor versions as well, both short throw from 83.


PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
Interesting. Your long throw copy seems to be from 1980. My copy from 81 has the short throw. Is your short throw copy also younger? Then it is probably a cost cutting measure.

I did an ebay search. Anything from the seventies has the longer throw most 1980 models as well (I found one that didn't) everything from 81 on has the shorter throw. They must have changed the design in 1980. https://www.ebay.nl/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=vivitar+28mm+%28f2%2C%221%3A2%22%29+-%222.8%22+-%222.5%22&_sacat=3323&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=vivitar+28mm+f2+-%222.8%22&_osacat=3323&_sop=15

If you replace Vivitar with Kiron you see only short throw copies, so it is likely Kiron didn't sell it under their own brand until the eighties. I can find some Panagor versions as well, both short throw from 83.


Interesting, but my Vivitar is long-throw. Might be cost cutting but also aperture (and glass) is double exposed to grease evaporation / leak from focusing helicoids in long throw version.


PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting - how do these versions compare with the ones I dissassembled here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/114-maintenance-repair-articles/391582-kiron-vivitar-28mm-f2-24mm-f2-sticky-iris-fix.html


Last edited by marcusBMG on Thu May 12, 2022 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is likely that neither of those lenses was made by Kiron, they look nothing like the Kiron 2/28, aperture ring turns in the wrong direction, barrel is much shorter, lettering totally different, nothing about those two lenses says Kiron, they are probably/possibly made by Cosina. .

This is the Kiron 2/28:



PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are FD mount so they emulate Canon in aperture direction. Serial starts with 22 so Kino/Kiron. No doubt about that


PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robin Parmar lists 3 PK mount 22xxx serial 28-2's and one M42 mount 22xxxx 28-2 in his blog:

http://photografica.robinparmar.com/vivitar.html

He doesn't list a PKA mount one, mine is a kiron nameplate. The vivs are differentiated first by the nameplate, but there can be some other differences. So there were changes. Browsing pics online vivs have the green distance scale numbers and look like the ones Pancolart has disassembled. The kirons have blue numbers.
PK mount viv, this is a K13 in RP's list:



And my PKA mount kiron:



Last edited by marcusBMG on Thu May 12, 2022 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's good info and pictures here, it mentions there are variations in the build of these lenses:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/114-maintenance-repair-articles/391582-kiron-vivitar-28mm-f2-24mm-f2-sticky-iris-fix.html


PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcusBMG wrote:
Interesting - how do these versions compare with the ones I dissassembled here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/114-maintenance-repair-articles/391582-kiron-vivitar-28mm-f2-24mm-f2-sticky-iris-fix.html


Actually quite similar with distinctive CANON FD complicated rear. Putting it back is a little adventure, three variables must match Smile.


PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The variation in mechanics might indicate that there isn't a single manufacturer and Vivitar sourced them from verious companies.


PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The die-cast finish on that ring with helicoid key in the first image has budget-tooling & machining written all over it! They didn't even remove the flashing around the ejector pin marks!?
Shocked


PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost forgot. On my search for different versions I encountered this:



PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting! I only know there are MC and non MC versions. But I never really acquire the MC version, kind of uncommon.


PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not uncommon all of the newer versions not marked auto-wide angle but wide angle are marked mc. Probably both have mc and there just wasn't enough room for it on the name ring so they dropped the "auto" part. About time too because auto signifies it is not a preset or manual aperture lens which no lens had been for a generation by the early eighties.


PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: KIRON 2/28mm TWO VERY DIFFERENT MODELS Reply with quote

Pancolart wrote:
I finally got into degreasing few aperture stuck samples i acquired over years. First two went easily. But next two i could not unscrew front system. Tortured my hand (again) doing it but of no success. Under better inspection totally different internal mechanics appeared.

There are two version: one with very short focus throw, other with a long one. Besides: double focusing! And bit larger rear opening. This version is quite sophisticated.


I've got a sample of the Vivitar 24 mm f/2 (Kiron made) which looks pretty much the same as your long focus-throw 28 mm f/2, including the engravings (red line for IR mark) and the interior construction with (which looks like a) floating elements front group. I guess that this quite sophisticated design was abandonned later on since in the reviews of that time I haven't found any mentionof "floating elements " or "double focusing".


PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: KIRON 2/28mm TWO VERY DIFFERENT MODELS Reply with quote

Alsatian2017 wrote:
Pancolart wrote:
I finally got into degreasing few aperture stuck samples i acquired over years. First two went easily. But next two i could not unscrew front system. Tortured my hand (again) doing it but of no success. Under better inspection totally different internal mechanics appeared.

There are two version: one with very short focus throw, other with a long one. Besides: double focusing! And bit larger rear opening. This version is quite sophisticated.


I've got a sample of the Vivitar 24 mm f/2 (Kiron made) which looks pretty much the same as your long focus-throw 28 mm f/2, including the engravings (red line for IR mark) and the interior construction with (which looks like a) floating elements front group. I guess that this quite sophisticated design was abandonned later on since in the reviews of that time I haven't found any mention of "floating elements " or "double focusing".


PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vivaldibow wrote:
Interesting! I only know there are MC and non MC versions. But I never really acquire the MC version, kind of uncommon.

I've seen many but never a non-MC F2.0.


PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: KIRON 2/28mm TWO VERY DIFFERENT MODELS Reply with quote

Alsatian2017 wrote:
Pancolart wrote:
I finally got into degreasing few aperture stuck samples i acquired over years. First two went easily. But next two i could not unscrew front system. Tortured my hand (again) doing it but of no success. Under better inspection totally different internal mechanics appeared.

There are two version: one with very short focus throw, other with a long one. Besides: double focusing! And bit larger rear opening. This version is quite sophisticated.


I've got a sample of the Vivitar 24 mm f/2 (Kiron made) which looks pretty much the same as your long focus-throw 28 mm f/2, including the engravings (red line for IR mark) and the interior construction with (which looks like a) floating elements front group. I guess that this quite sophisticated design was abandonned later on since in the reviews of that time I haven't found any mentionof "floating elements " or "double focusing".

I should have written floating elements and not double focusing (which is actually double helicoid).


PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pancolart wrote:
vivaldibow wrote:
Interesting! I only know there are MC and non MC versions. But I never really acquire the MC version, kind of uncommon.

I've seen many but never a non-MC F2.0.


Probably in my window of observation of the one or two years, I saw more non mc than mc. The two copies I got are both non MC at that time, and I was so eager to find an MC version but couldn’t.
Now a quick search on eBay show both are common.