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KIEV-4 with 2 lenses (disappointed)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: KIEV-4 with 2 lenses (disappointed) Reply with quote

Well, those photos looked great viewed through the loupe, but enlarged, I found that I missed focus on nearly all of them Crying or Very sad
I could only really save one taken with the Jupiter-9:



All the other pictures, including all the pictures taken with the CZJ Sonnar 1.5/50, were out of focus Crying or Very sad
I don't know how is it possible to miss focus on a rangefinder, but I did. Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe would needs calibration ? Just a guess ( http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44441 , http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/forum/messages/6900/4989.html?1123297646 , and http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?Kiev4a.html~mainFrame )


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But then why my previous photos were in perfect focus? Confused


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is of course possible, Orio. Don't worry.
Depending on the chosen aperture, the light conditions etc.

Or you just banged the cam against a table or something without noticing and NOW it needs calibration.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm... looks like I'll have to load a crappy roll and make tests again Confused


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1.5/50 is known to have focus shift (back) when wide open and even f2.
I don't know if that helps explain anything for you Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F16SUNSHINE wrote:
The 1.5/50 is known to have focus shift (back) when wide open and even f2.


Also the Jena version?
Mine is Jena not Opton...

I really need to make a new test roll.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I think so.
I read some discussion on RFF that Zeiss even stayed true with the traditional focus shift character in the new ZM sonnar 1.5/50.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. And how is one supposed to deal with that? I mean, in a rangefinder you can not check the view through the lens...


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following Quote is from a LL page. The quote is from someone at zeiss explaining the characteristic "softeness" of the "new" Sonnar.
I read this as. Once you get to know the lens. This effect is used in kind.
I have yet to get to know the lens but, would like to take the time to. Wink
Here is the link to the LL piece. It covers a few of the new ZM lenses Very Happy

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/zeiss-m-mount.shtml

Quote:


C-Sonnar T* 1,5/50 ZM

Information about special features for dealers and users

The C-SONNAR T* 1.5/50 ZM is a very special lens; based on a classical lens design concept from the 1930s. The additional letter C in the name of the lens expresses this designation.

This lens design helps to achieve pictures with a special artistic touch. This lens draws your subject in a fine, flattering manner and is therefore ideally suited for portraiture. It renders a sharpness that is slightly rounded, being less aggressive than in contemporary lens designs, but at the same time not soft in its rendition.

Many famous portraits of glamorous and prominent people during the 1930s used this technique to great effect. These images are characterized by portraying the person in a shining, nearly celestial way. This effect is very well balanced and not exaggerated; therefore many viewers see it in a subconscious way. The trained observer, however, understands the underlining technique and enjoys the results.

This lens design exhibits some additional effects, which should be understood to achieve the maximum benefit from the C-Sonnar T* 1.5/50 ZM:

Because of the above mentioned classical characteristic of the lens the best focus position in the object space can not be kept exactly constant for all f-stop settings.
The passionate photographer might notice a slightly closer best focus in his pictures than expected. When stopping down the lens to f/2.8 or smaller this effect is minimized, so the focus position will be as expected.
In order to balance the performance at full speed and other f-stop settings the lens is adjusted with above described characteristic.

The special features of the C-SONNAR T* 1.5/50 ZM are best used in emotional, artistic, narrative images, portraits or atmospheric landscapes. For documentation or technical subjects CARL ZEISS recommends to stop down the lens at least to f/5.6 or to use the PLANAR T* 2/50 ZM lens.



PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does this mean, for isntance, that if the subject is at 3 metres, I have to set the focus at 3.2 meters?


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio
In an attempt to save film and learn a bit more.
Later today I will try and do a bracket with the DRF and Opton 1.5/50.
I will do one @ WO and also at f2.8 for a control.
The sky is pissing so it will be indoors under electric light but still will tell us something.

I think you are correct in the theory. The amount I am not sure about.
One person wrote 2"(5cm) per meter. Question Question


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in any case I expect to use my 1.5/50 stopped down to at least f/4 if not at f/8 for hyperfocal - the rangefinder is certainly not the ideal medium to play with bokeh and narrow DOF effects... Wink


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio, I hope this might be helpful. On the Zorkis both the camera mount and the J-8 lens have to be calibrated. There are paper shims under the mount to adjust the film to mount distance and metal shims inside the lens. Very occasionally the lens has been adjusted specifically for one camera and has problems focussing on other cameras (or vice versa). I wonder if your Kiev-4 and J-9 is like this.

If the camera gave good results with another lens, it points to the J-9 being out of adjustment. The way to check it is with the shutter locked open and ground glass or tracing paper taped over the shutter opening inside the back of the camera.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And how the calibration is done?
Sorry if stupid question Embarassed


PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
And how the calibration is done?
Sorry if stupid question Embarassed

On the J9 (RF)? Sorry, I don't know! Embarassed Rick will know a lot more about this than me.

On the J-8 all the glass elements are in a separate internal section that unscrews from the front of the outer barrel, normally with a couple of aluminium rings inside, acting as shims to adjust the throw. You could start by checking whether the lens needs to be closer or farther from the film at the infinity stop to hit proper focus, and then maybe we can work it out. Remember this doesn't affect the cam or the rangefinder adjustment.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another Kiev repair link:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html


PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
Another Kiev repair link:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html

That's perfect, there's a section on dismantling and re-reasing the Jupiter-9 and another section on checking and adjusting the working distance. Everything Orio needs. Thanks! Smile


PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I'll not try that Shocked
When my finances have recovered, I'll have it serviced if needed.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
Another Kiev repair link:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html


Wow... that guy is an expert. Look what have done to Carsten's Oly RF Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just sent the Sonnar issue to Dr. Nasse at Zeiss. Now, let's wait and see if he finds the time to answer...