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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 11664
Location: West Emilia
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: Kiev-4: incredibly beautiful and complicated |
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I just received the camera: WHAT A BEAUTY!
But... I don't understand a thing with it. Can not figure it out! 
Help! 
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
Main Tools:
LENSES: Carl Zeiss, Leitz, Soviet, old Nikkors, others.
DSLR: Canon EOS 5D, 50D. SLR: Contax AX, RX, 167MT; Voigtländer Bessaflex TM; Praktica FX2; Nikon FM2, F70.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Kiev-4, Voigtlaender Bessa-T, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Agfa Record II.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1475
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
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http://www.russianplaza.com/Kiev%20man/kiev4man.htm
http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/manuals/cameras/k4/k4.htm
http://mikebutkus.com/chinon/russian/kiev-4/kieva-a-splash.htm
_________________
Zenit E , Helios-44 58mm f:2.0 , Tair-11A 135mm f:2.8, Jupiter-9 85mm f:2.0
Porst Reflex TL , Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f:2.4 , Pentacon 50mm f:1.8 , Porst MC 135mm f:2.8
Ricoh XR7, Ricoh KR10, Petri GX-1 , Chinon MC 28mm f:2.8 , Varexon EEK 35mm f:2.8 , smc Pentax-M 50mm f:1.7, Ricoh 50mm f:1.7 , Soligor T 135mm f:2.8 , Chinon MC 200mm f:3.3
Pentax K100D , smc Pentax-DA 18-55 , smc Pentax-FA 80-320 |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 11664
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
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OK, after the panic attack, I think I am beginning to figure it out  
The infinity lock on the lens was the hardest thing to figure out. Second was how to set the shutter time. Third was to understand why at times the range finder seemd to work and at other times it did seem not to. Until I found out that the difference was made by my finger covering the range finder window
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
Main Tools:
LENSES: Carl Zeiss, Leitz, Soviet, old Nikkors, others.
DSLR: Canon EOS 5D, 50D. SLR: Contax AX, RX, 167MT; Voigtländer Bessaflex TM; Praktica FX2; Nikon FM2, F70.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Kiev-4, Voigtlaender Bessa-T, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Agfa Record II.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 11664
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Cosmin.
_________________
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
Main Tools:
LENSES: Carl Zeiss, Leitz, Soviet, old Nikkors, others.
DSLR: Canon EOS 5D, 50D. SLR: Contax AX, RX, 167MT; Voigtländer Bessaflex TM; Praktica FX2; Nikon FM2, F70.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Kiev-4, Voigtlaender Bessa-T, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Agfa Record II.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1475
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Be careful with the shutter time and winding/cocking the shutter issue - like in the case of FED , Zorki and other older russian cameras !!!!!!
ALWAYS wind/cock the shutter and after choose the shutter time !!!!!!!
_________________
Zenit E , Helios-44 58mm f:2.0 , Tair-11A 135mm f:2.8, Jupiter-9 85mm f:2.0
Porst Reflex TL , Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f:2.4 , Pentacon 50mm f:1.8 , Porst MC 135mm f:2.8
Ricoh XR7, Ricoh KR10, Petri GX-1 , Chinon MC 28mm f:2.8 , Varexon EEK 35mm f:2.8 , smc Pentax-M 50mm f:1.7, Ricoh 50mm f:1.7 , Soligor T 135mm f:2.8 , Chinon MC 200mm f:3.3
Pentax K100D , smc Pentax-DA 18-55 , smc Pentax-FA 80-320 |
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1475
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Weird... I just read the last link this "The shutter speed can be set with the shutter either cocked or fired. However, it is recommended that the shutter speed be changed with the shutter cocked."
In other cases (Zenit 3M, Zorki, FED...) the book says to cock first the shutter and not just recommends it.
_________________
Zenit E , Helios-44 58mm f:2.0 , Tair-11A 135mm f:2.8, Jupiter-9 85mm f:2.0
Porst Reflex TL , Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f:2.4 , Pentacon 50mm f:1.8 , Porst MC 135mm f:2.8
Ricoh XR7, Ricoh KR10, Petri GX-1 , Chinon MC 28mm f:2.8 , Varexon EEK 35mm f:2.8 , smc Pentax-M 50mm f:1.7, Ricoh 50mm f:1.7 , Soligor T 135mm f:2.8 , Chinon MC 200mm f:3.3
Pentax K100D , smc Pentax-DA 18-55 , smc Pentax-FA 80-320 |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 11664
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| montecarlo wrote: | Be careful with the shutter time and winding/cocking the shutter issue - like in the case of FED , Zorki and other older russian cameras !!!!!!
ALWAYS wind/cock the shutter and after choose the shutter time !!!!!!! |
Yes. Thanks for the warning. I don't know if with this camera is even possible at all to set it first. In any case I find it natural to set it after, so no problem. I am used with my old super ikonta, to move film to next frame immediately after shooting. So it comes second nature for this camera also 
About the range finder: I don't know why you read around, that it would be dark and difficult? I don't have a huge experience with range finders, but I tried a few, and this one is the brightest and easier I have ever used.
_________________
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
Main Tools:
LENSES: Carl Zeiss, Leitz, Soviet, old Nikkors, others.
DSLR: Canon EOS 5D, 50D. SLR: Contax AX, RX, 167MT; Voigtländer Bessaflex TM; Praktica FX2; Nikon FM2, F70.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Kiev-4, Voigtlaender Bessa-T, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Agfa Record II.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 11664
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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My camera seems to have an improper takeup spool
I can not make the film fit in the slit
_________________
_
ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
Main Tools:
LENSES: Carl Zeiss, Leitz, Soviet, old Nikkors, others.
DSLR: Canon EOS 5D, 50D. SLR: Contax AX, RX, 167MT; Voigtländer Bessaflex TM; Praktica FX2; Nikon FM2, F70.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Kiev-4, Voigtlaender Bessa-T, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Agfa Record II.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 11664
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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A photo that shows the problem: as you can see, the film leader is both larger than the slit, and placed in a lower position - while the slit is narrow and placed exactly in the middle of the spool.
_________________
_
ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
Main Tools:
LENSES: Carl Zeiss, Leitz, Soviet, old Nikkors, others.
DSLR: Canon EOS 5D, 50D. SLR: Contax AX, RX, 167MT; Voigtländer Bessaflex TM; Praktica FX2; Nikon FM2, F70.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Kiev-4, Voigtlaender Bessa-T, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Agfa Record II.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Just cut a bit off the long side to make a centre tongue. Istr having to do that with some other cam years ago - might even have been one of them.
_________________
Dave
The Lenses of Farside
"The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and
prosperity is no longer socialism. It is, instead, the ambitious,
arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism."
-- Czech President Vaclav Klaus |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 11664
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Farside wrote: | | Just cut a bit off the long side to make a centre tongue. Istr having to do that with some other cam years ago - might even have been one of them. |
I did that, but this weakens the film that begins to tear off when you press it in the spool... it's not an ideal solution.
_________________
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
Main Tools:
LENSES: Carl Zeiss, Leitz, Soviet, old Nikkors, others.
DSLR: Canon EOS 5D, 50D. SLR: Contax AX, RX, 167MT; Voigtländer Bessaflex TM; Praktica FX2; Nikon FM2, F70.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Kiev-4, Voigtlaender Bessa-T, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Agfa Record II.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
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F16SUNSHINE
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 2198
Location: Anacortes Washington
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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You can use a piece of tape just as the Kodak uses to attach the film to the spool. I had a missing take-up in an old leica IIIf body. The solution was a spool from a empty cartridge like you have. Before leaving the house I would put a piece of masking tape around the outside of each plastic film canister I carried for the day. It was the perfect solution as you don't have to try and save the tape each time. With the Leica the tape had an added benifit. The film leader did not pop of the spool during loading as Leicas load funky in my view. Here is an ebay link for an "original" spool for Kiev etc. It looks fragile and expensive. Try the tape trick. It works well. Also Rollei IR film has a spool with a proper slot. Some other films may also have a full height slot on the spool. Maybe check with your developing lab. They usually have a bin filled with empty spools to re-cycle.
Click here to see on Ebay |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 11664
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, super helpful reply Andy. Thanks!
Tape eh? I will try.
Fed Zorki Kiev, aren't they different cameras?
Maybe I'll try and get this spool. I don't like the idea of going on with temporary remedies.
Also perhaps worth trying the Rollei infrared film. Maybe it costs less.
_________________
_
ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
Main Tools:
LENSES: Carl Zeiss, Leitz, Soviet, old Nikkors, others.
DSLR: Canon EOS 5D, 50D. SLR: Contax AX, RX, 167MT; Voigtländer Bessaflex TM; Praktica FX2; Nikon FM2, F70.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Kiev-4, Voigtlaender Bessa-T, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Agfa Record II.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 11664
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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I found an IR film Rollei for sale in Italy.
Click here to see on Ebay
If you are sure the spool is OK I will get it - it will be cheaper than the Ukrain option.
_________________
_
ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
Main Tools:
LENSES: Carl Zeiss, Leitz, Soviet, old Nikkors, others.
DSLR: Canon EOS 5D, 50D. SLR: Contax AX, RX, 167MT; Voigtländer Bessaflex TM; Praktica FX2; Nikon FM2, F70.
RANGEFINDERS: Contax G2, Kiev-4, Voigtlaender Bessa-T, Canonette QL17. MEDIUM FORMAT: Pentacon 6, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Agfa Record II.
Read Full List HERE
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. " (George Orwell)
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F16SUNSHINE
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 2198
Location: Anacortes Washington
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Here I took a quick pic of the tape trick. As you can see I put the tape all the way around the spool so the leader is gripped from both sides. You would just fold over the tape end I left open and it is ready to load. The other spool is the type that you should try and find. This one is from my Yashica YF in the picture. Leica used the same one. Keep an eye out at camera shops and shows. To be honest the tape is more secure for the Leica style loading with a back door as pictured. For the Contax/Kiev this all metal spool is great. The full removable back on the Contax/Kiev is superior to Leica door in my view.
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Current Kit
Canon 5D, 40D
Contax 4/18, 1.4/50, 1.4/85, 2.8/85, 2/100, 3.5/100, 2.8/180, Rollei HFT 1.4/35, 1.4/85, Zuiko 2/21, 2/24, 2/28, 2/35, 2/80, Yashica ML 3.5/21, 2.8/24, Helios 40 protype, Trioplan 2.8/100, Tair 11A,
Epson R D1(s), Bessa L, Bessa R2m, Leica CL, CV 4.5/15, 4/25, 1.4/40, Zeiss ZM 2/35, Yashinon1.8/50, CLE 4/90, Zeiss Opton 4/135 T, Electro GT, Electro GX, Electro CC |
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