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Just bought a DP1
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject: Just bought a DP1 Reply with quote

I've been curious about the Foveon sensor and in particular the DPx cameras for quite some time, but prices were too high. Recently though the DP1s started selling new for about 300€, and used prices dropped too so that the average used price for a DP1s is about 200€.

After selling my Polaroid 600se yesterday I decided I could get a used DP1 or DP1s if the price was right, and today I won a good looking (and hopefully working) DP1 on ebay for 134€ + 17€ shipping. It will take some time for it to get here, as I'll have to pay by bank transfer (German auction) then fight the usual Christmas overload on our postal system, but I can't wait!

Any other DP1/DP2 owners here?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a DP1 Reply with quote

ludoo wrote:
Any other DP1/DP2 owners here?

Yep, a few of us!

I was one of the DP1 early adopters, and have loved this camera since day one. Cool As you will learn, it has its strengths and its weaknesses, but the image quality is just stunning. It will change how you look at your other cameras for sure. Shocked

Make sure you purchase the Richard Franiec grip and the Sigma HA-11 hood & lens adapter package. These together completely transform the handling of the camera, and permit much slower shutter speeds to be used. With slower shutter speeds, you can drop the ISO, which really brings the Foveon sensor into its sweet spot. Cool

Here is another useful thread for examples & advice:
http://forum.mflenses.com/sigma-dp1-t21706.html


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! I hope the hood is in the package, but I will definitely get one. And I've seen the grip and will probably buy it soon.

I'm also thinking about tracking down a cheap 28mm viewfinder, as I don't much like shooting with an LCD for framing.

I am really excited by the DP1, I love small cameras and despite its flaws and the slightly too wide lens for my tastes, I think I'll love it. I hope it will keep me busy until the Fuji X100 gets on the market, then I'll probably stop using most of my gear for the Fuji.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a DP1 Reply with quote

ludoo wrote:
today I won a good looking (and hopefully working) DP1 on ebay for 134€ + 17€ shipping.


Sorry to hear Wink

(Though fir that price it is perfectly allright, I guess.)


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a DP1 Reply with quote

Anu wrote:
Sorry to hear Wink

(Though fir that price it is perfectly allright, I guess.)


You mean it's a crappy camera? :O


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that is a very nice price, Ludo!

I would, however, prefer the DP2, because of the different lens.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Carsten, I too would prefer a 41mm equivalent as it's my ideal focal length. But DP2s are still too expensive...


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another DP1s owner here....

Delighted with the cam, the lens is perfect for architecture and landscape.
It's a camera with much personality (maybe too much Wink ) but takes wonderful pictures. Be ready to be patient when writing RAWs to card, and also looking for bright days, the F4 min aperture needs sunny days. Otherwise a gem. Look for the custom grip, is a mandatory add-on.

The price is more than right.

You can find some Lisbon views taken with the DP1s HERE

Regards,

Jes.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ludoo wrote:
Yes Carsten, I too would prefer a 41mm equivalent as it's my ideal focal length. But DP2s are still too expensive...

Wink That's the reason why I don't have one.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a DP1 Reply with quote

ludoo wrote:
Anu wrote:
Sorry to hear Wink

(Though fir that price it is perfectly allright, I guess.)


You mean it's a crappy camera? :O


For that price it is allright, but yes, I think it's a crappy camera Smile


PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And lastly, I think Foveon shooters are cool, don't you think so, Anu? Where'd she go, she was here a minute ago... Laughing


PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Just bought a DP1 Reply with quote

Anu wrote:
ludoo wrote:
Anu wrote:
Sorry to hear Wink

(Though fir that price it is perfectly allright, I guess.)


You mean it's a crappy camera? :O


For that price it is allright, but yes, I think it's a crappy camera Smile


Indeed, crappy camera.
Although i don't own a DPx, it's probably a crappy camera.
(With the best sensor)
SD14 owner here Wink.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Just bought a DP1 Reply with quote

a20010494 wrote:
Anu wrote:
ludoo wrote:
Anu wrote:
Sorry to hear Wink

(Though fir that price it is perfectly allright, I guess.)


You mean it's a crappy camera? :O


For that price it is allright, but yes, I think it's a crappy camera Smile


Indeed, crappy camera.
Although i don't own a DPx, it's probably a crappy camera.
(With the best sensor)
SD14 owner here Wink.


Well, actually for it's size it's the worst of the sensors Smile
Of course beats point-at-shoots easily though due to the size.

The level of metameric failure and high read noise are unsolvable for Foveon - the first is due to using silicon as filter instead of colour pigments, the latter because of the 9-transistors per pixel design compared to 3 or 4 for the competition.

Stilll, the lens ought to be good Wink


PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katastrofo wrote:
And lastly, I think Foveon shooters are cool, don't you think so, Anu? Where'd she go, she was here a minute ago... Laughing


I disagree. I think winter is cool. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anu: Have you ever had any foveon camera in your hands? Because all your foveon-related posts sound more like virals than anything else Smile


PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no-X wrote:
Anu: Have you ever had any foveon camera in your hands? Because all your foveon-related posts sound more like virals than anything else Smile


I have never driven a Trabant, yet I know it's crap. I've never travelled to the moon, yet I know it's not made of cheese...

The reason why I tend to post about Foveon is to puncture the myth that the Foveon sensor is somehow superior to Bayer-filtered sensors, especially when it comes to colour accuracy, when in reality the opposite is true.

Not only I do this to advance understanding to spread (a little tiny almost unsignificant amount), but also hopefully my contribution will help people make a better educated choise when it comes to cameras.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anu wrote:
Katastrofo wrote:
And lastly, I think Foveon shooters are cool, don't you think so, Anu? Where'd she go, she was here a minute ago... Laughing


I disagree. I think winter is cool. Wink


Fovoen shooters are extremely cool!
Being different is cool. And still shooting with older Foveon cams is as cool as it can get. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only know that a large percentage of the Foveon pics I see posted in forums are really really good, while I cannot say the same about pics from traditional sensors.

And Anu, I find your way of intruding into a thread to post denigratory comments with no room for discussion, very rude. And frankly, who cares if you hate Foveon sensors? Just don't talk about it, at least not before having used it for a while, which was the point of this thread: asking opinions from owners.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ludoo wrote:
I only know that a large percentage of the Foveon pics I see posted in forums are really really good, while I cannot say the same about pics from traditional sensors.

And Anu, I find your way of intruding into a thread to post denigratory comments with no room for discussion, very rude. And frankly, who cares if you hate Foveon sensors? Just don't talk about it, at least not before having used it for a while, which was the point of this thread: asking opinions from owners.


Ludo has right Anu, first and last warning to you to stop this behavior! This is repeated trouble with you , so stop it please! If you don't like something ignore it, don't need to degrade other people joy.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ludoo wrote:
I only know that a large percentage of the Foveon pics I see posted in forums are really really good, while I cannot say the same about pics from traditional sensors.


Is there some difference in which pictures are good and which not? I mean the amount and colour of light for example?

My Kodak sensor is like a french car, on a good (sunny) conditions, it produces the finest possible results. But else it produces unimaginable garbage.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I looked at quite a few DP1 and DP2 pictures the past few days, and a surprising large number of them, wen exposed properly and in decent light, show a certain something which I really like and find different from most other pictures with traditional sensors: a kind of luminous 3D, with incredible texture. See for example shots here

http://www.rytterfalk.com/2009/04/20/initial-dp2-review-with-full-size-shots/

but there are lots of them. The only camera I had which sahred some of the same qualities, though in a lesser degree, is the 5D old. But having this kind of quality in a pocketable package is what I'm really after.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The DP1 is a nice little camera and able to produce stunning pictures.
Despite having a crappy Foveon sensor....

No wait, not really crappy. My SD9 made 100k of pictures and more, my SD10 made several thousands and my SD14 made many thousands of pictures, too.
I know, what I'm talking about, because I used the sensor since 2003! And from time to time, I really wish, my 5DII would behave so crappy as my Foveons do!

Anyway, I love this sophisticated comments of Anu. Very knowledgable person who knows the truth about Trabant cars and cameras. Go on, I love it, if something/someone is so predictable!!!

Klaus


PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, since Anu is out this round, I will play the devil's advocate here a bit Twisted Evil
I saw the images in the Sigma DP2 link, and, while indeed really good images, I sincerely see nothing, absolutely nothing in there that I can not obtain with my 5DII's CMOS sensor or my M9's CCD sensor.
I hope this does not hurt some "Foveon's myth priests" Wink - sorry, but I have to speak sincerely what my eyes see...
_


PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
I saw the images in the Sigma DP2 link, and, while indeed really good images, I sincerely see nothing, absolutely nothing in there that I can not obtain with my 5DII's CMOS sensor or my M9's CCD sensor.
I hope this does not hurt some "Foveon's myth priests" Wink - sorry, but I have to speak sincerely what my eyes see...


And I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Wink

The 5DII is almost 7x the price, 3x the weight (without a lens), huge in size when compared, and a 21MP full-frame sensor vs a 14MP (or 4.69MP if you prefer) 1.7x crop sensor. Regardless of which one has the best output, it is pretty clear up front that these cameras are in two totally different categories.

Frankly, the fact that the image quality is even comparable at all is astounding, and Sigma/Foveon should be quite proud of this feat. Wink


(image from: http://www.fotografen-welt.de/blog/2010/10/sigma-dp-2s-testbericht/sigma-dp-2s-testbericht-2/)


PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, aside from the fact that at least 95% of my 5DII pictures are taken with a much smaller lens than the huge one shown here Wink I absolutely agree that the image quality of the SD2 pictures that I saw is remarkable and probably yet-unseen for a compact camera.

My comment however was colour-oriented. By reading the comments of the Foveon fans, one understands that the Foveon renders colours that the other sensors just can't. Based on the samples that I have seen, I can not agree with the assumption. I see great colours, but no colours that my cameras can not render.

Regarding the price, it is true that the 5DII cost 4 times and some more (not 7 times - at least, not here), but, it's not that this money is lost: you get the chance of switching lenses, you get full HD video recording (while I read that the video quality of the SD2 is not exciting), you get extremely clean 1600 ISO images that almost need no noise reduction, you get full frame, you get 21 MP images... in a nutshell, you get stuff.
Of course, one may not need this stuff, and be perfectly happy with what the SD2 can deliver. But it's not that the extra money that you pay for a 5DII is wasted...