How to find a good Industar-10 or Industar-22?

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

Hello!
I'm lookinging for a lens which are producing the retro-look of the pre-war Elmar 50/3.5 or Summitar 50/2
So the Industar-10 and Industar-22 came also into my mind. According to some reviews they can be as good as the Elmar and produce a similar look (despite that they have a different optical design, the Industars are Tessars)

The problem seems to be the quality spreading. Many Industars seem to be crap compared to the Leitz lenses.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113110

I already had several Industars but always bad luck with them.
Can anyone give a hint how to find a good copy?

Bye the way - is there also a USSR counterpart for the Summitar? (I like the Summitar for his bokeh and character)

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

All three of my Industar-50s are superb so I don't know where the notion that the Elmar is better comes from. In fact, I don't think I own any 50mm lenses sharper than my Industar-50s.

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 2877

I don't think there is any sure way except buying in person. Otherwise, you just play a lottery and sometimes you get lucky.

I have Industar-22 and Industar-61 l/d, which IMHO are very good. Still I don't use them too often due to having too many great 50s. I can sell you either of those for 30 Euros + shipping (which will be 5 Euros since we are both in Germany). Here's the thread with my I-22 shots http://forum.mflenses.com/industar-22-t48796.html

Btw, I have plenty of lenses that I can sell if there is an interest. Here's the list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoe2xJlyKORrdHhzeUR3dFhSOGxCVmR4YnIzWUcybGc#gid=0 I was planning to do a marketplace post, but never found the time.

fotomachi · Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject:

You can't know until you try for yourself. A lens may look mint from the outside but may be a complete lemon at the inside, and vice versa.
I was lucky recently with a Kazan Industar-22 recently. I have noticed somewhat of a variation between different versions, years, fabrication sites, etc, but I have never encountered a really bad copy.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I still don't understand where these ideas about only some copies of Russian lenses being good comes from, if there are all these lesser copies out there, where are they? I have three I-50s, an I-22, an I-26 and two I-61s, ranging from 1954 to 1989 in date and every one is great, all very sharp. My personal favourites are a 1959 I-50 collapsible and a 1966 I-50 rigid, but to be honest, it's almost impossible to tell any of my Industars apart. I've got 7 or 8 Tessars too and I wouldn't say any of them was better than the Industars.

I-50 1959 on NEX:

I-50 1966 on Zorki-6:

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

I have three Industar-22 RED P I did try only one that was stunning far better than cheap Leica Summar, Summitar.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 2877

You can find resolution figures for any Soviet optics here:
http://www.photohistory.ru/1207248187299134.html

It helps if you can read Russian, but if not google translate should help. However, IMHO, these figures are interesting only from historical point of view. With optics that is 60 years old ( as with anything) the performance today will be determined by the quality of assembly, and the conditions in which the lens has been kept much more than by the theoretical calculated resolution (which is what these figures are).

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Oh I wasn't angry, just making a little joke.

The figures I saw weren't theoretical, they were measured by someone, they measured all the Russian RF lenses they owned. I can't for the life of me remember what site it was on, but it was an English language one.

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

Ian, you are coming across a little strong.
I wish there was a surefire way to get a good lens...my only thought is buy from someone who has used the lens and has shown it to be a good copy.

martinsmith99 · Expire: 2013-11-18

I have an I-22 that I've never used. I don't see the attraction with them as they're annoying to use.

I have three I50s that are all very different. It may be because of the years they were made or QC, but there is variation.

Nesster · Expire: 2014-02-20

One problem I have is that I may believe too much what other people say. There is a lot of psychology involved when reading opinions, especially when it comes to large price differences. And I don't mean fan-boy ego stuff, I mean our expectations often condition our experience.

I haven't had a really bad example of a Russian lens - though in general the Kiev mount lenses have all been excellent, and the LTM ones not quite as good. And we have to remember that when talking pre-war there's a lot of life experience variation on top of whatever state of the art, German or Russian, was in place at the time.

Based on my limited experience and the greater experience of - and sample photos from - many of the members here, I would agree that when it comes to older lenses, the Russians are as good or better, on average, than others of the same design era. Newer glass, maybe not? Very Happy

Also, I've been lucky and patient, so I've bought my lenses all in the USA - at the camera show, or on ebay - and so far no lemons. Plus, a lot cheaper given I didn't pay for the long distance shipping.

But really, the beautiful thing here is that the Russian lenses are inexpensive enough that one could buy a few and be picky between them, and then sell off the rest, and still not spend much money.

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

According to this site: http://www.baierfoto.de/russobj/objektive/industar.html
Resolution is I-50 > I-22 > I-10
Unfortunately they don't have stated the resolution for all Industar lenses (like I-61)

Drack · Joined: 27 Feb 2011 Posts: 735 Location: Lithuania

From what I have tried out of collapsible Russian lenses I`ve only got wonderful results. As I know up until 1964-5 when the Russians started releasing Industar`s 61 and later 61L/D the RF lens industry lost it`s quality in good lenses. However up until then basically every lens was made really well.
I think that the person who has tested the I-10 ( http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113110 ) might have a poorly repaired model. Very often , when an inexperienced repairman fails to center or clean the lenses properly you might not get the quality that the lens could actually produce.

Anyway . I still think that you could get at least a dozen Industars for the price as the elmar so why not go for it. You will find at least one that fits you needs Smile

Olivier · Expire: 2015-08-06

Looking at photohistory.ru, I find the following resolutions :

I50 resolution for W (center / edge) : 38/22
I22 : 32/22
I10 : 30/18

Maybe Ian you could sell one of your industars to Forenseil ? Smile